The monthly Wine Focus discussions are now held in the main Wine Forum (above). The forum remains open as an archive, but please post comments and questions in the Wine Forum.

WTN: A Californian Pinot

Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker

User avatar
User

Otto

Rank

Musaroholic

Posts

4095

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:07 pm

Location

Helsinki, Finland

WTN: A Californian Pinot

by Otto » Mon Aug 14, 2006 2:52 pm

  • 2003 Bouchard Père et Fils Morgon - France, Burgundy, Beaujolais, Morgon (8/14/2006)
    Served blind: Pale red. The nose is very sweet and cherryish with a small hint of cola even. There is quite a bit of earth also. The palate is very sweet, rather lacking in acidity, with a bit of tannins present. Long aftertaste but with candied cherries. Some nice elements, but not my style - especially the lack of structure and the horrible candied note to the fruit. Californian Pinot maybe?

    I guess the hints of pale colour and earthiness should have warned me to stay in Europe. Oops.

Posted from CellarTracker
I don't drink wine because of religious reasons ... only for other reasons.
User avatar
User

Bob Parsons Alberta

Rank

aka Doris

Posts

9722

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:09 pm

Re: WTN: A Californian Pinot

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Tue Aug 15, 2006 3:23 am

Like a few other areas, there is a lot of variation in Bollyjolly land. I am enjoying all the posts here this month but feel I should stick to the recognized producers. And then this one shows up and one has to wonder whatsup, what kinda wine were they thinking of! I am looking forward to opening the Sandhill Gamay (BC), so much for recognized eh!!
User avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Riesling Guru

Posts

22668

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:52 pm

Location

Connecticut

Re: WTN: A Californian Pinot

by David M. Bueker » Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:08 am

2003 sure has its issues. I've had 3 or 4 2003 Beaujolais, and all have been too ripe for what I am looking for. They have also had heightened tannin to my taste, making them less successful as a slightly chilled beverage for hotter weather.
There behind the glass lies a real blade of grass. Be careful as you pass. Move along. Move along.
User avatar
User

Otto

Rank

Musaroholic

Posts

4095

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:07 pm

Location

Helsinki, Finland

Re: WTN: A Californian Pinot

by Otto » Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:59 am

Bob,

I think that Bouchard makes a fine Morgon - usually. The 2003s I've been very wary on. I tried this last year also and then it seemed more restrained than most other 03s but had harsh tannins on the finish (a feature that I've noticed with many reds from all around Europe this year, not just Bojos, David!). I'm sorry to see that it's become much less pleasant in a year.

Or maybe it's just that the first time I tried it, it wasn't blind so I made excuses for it as I had liked very much the previous vintages.

And Bob, I think exploring unknowns is fun, so don't give up on the little known names. Besides, I've noticed that even among the unknowns that I've tried there have been very few who make bad wines. I'd actually be more wray of one big name (Duboeuf)...

-Otto-
I don't drink wine because of religious reasons ... only for other reasons.
User avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Riesling Guru

Posts

22668

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:52 pm

Location

Connecticut

Re: WTN: A Californian Pinot

by David M. Bueker » Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:16 am

Indeed 2003 has created its share of odd ducks from all European regions. One of my favorite producers, Chevillon, has made a crop of wines I find barely drinkable (if even that) in 2003. Even the Bourgogne Passetougrains is thick.
There behind the glass lies a real blade of grass. Be careful as you pass. Move along. Move along.
User avatar
User

Bob Parsons Alberta

Rank

aka Doris

Posts

9722

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:09 pm

Re: WTN: A Californian Pinot

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:29 am

Otto, it was a bit of a sweeping statement I guess. Too much Masi Tupungato and watching finale of Hells Kitchen. I have purchased wines I have never heard of before and had some very enjoyable experiences. I was referring to some of the chateau-bottled Bollyjollys out there.
User avatar
User

AaronW

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

191

Joined

Thu Jul 27, 2006 8:45 pm

Location

Just south of SLC

Re: WTN: A Californian Pinot

by AaronW » Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:56 am

Otto Nieminen wrote:
  • 2003 Bouchard Père et Fils Morgon - France, Burgundy, Beaujolais, Morgon (8/14/2006)
    Served blind: Pale red. The nose is very sweet and cherryish with a small hint of cola even. There is quite a bit of earth also. The palate is very sweet, rather lacking in acidity, with a bit of tannins present. Long aftertaste but with candied cherries. Some nice elements, but not my style - especially the lack of structure and the horrible candied note to the fruit. Californian Pinot maybe?

    I guess the hints of pale colour and earthiness should have warned me to stay in Europe. Oops.
Posted from CellarTracker


Hey Otto,
I'm curious as to why the description of your blind tasting of a Gamay wine concluded with "candied cherries" and you associated that essence with that of a Calif. Pinot. Does your palate prefer the "earth tones" of a wine or is Cal. Pinot generalized as "candy" wine? I've generally been of the understanding that, varietally speaking, Pinot's are renowned for their "earthy" notes such as- mushrooms, soil, truffles etc.. Which is why my curiosity is compounded. Not that I'm a pinot-ologist, because I'm certainly not; that's why I'm asking. Are there no good pinots from the Golden State in your opinion, because I tried a "David Bruce '03" from Sonoma and I thought it was outstanding with great balance. But then, at this point in time, my palate kind of leans toward fruit forwardness. I'm looking forward to being informed.
User avatar
User

Otto

Rank

Musaroholic

Posts

4095

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:07 pm

Location

Helsinki, Finland

Re: WTN: A Californian Pinot

by Otto » Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:00 pm

AaronW. wrote:Hey Otto,
I'm curious as to why the description of your blind tasting of a Gamay wine concluded with "candied cherries" and you associated that essence with that of a Calif. Pinot. Does your palate prefer the "earth tones" of a wine or is Cal. Pinot generalized as "candy" wine? I've generally been of the understanding that, varietally speaking, Pinot's are renowned for their "earthy" notes such as- mushrooms, soil, truffles etc.. Which is why my curiosity is compounded. Not that I'm a pinot-ologist, because I'm certainly not; that's why I'm asking. Are there no good pinots from the Golden State in your opinion, because I tried a "David Bruce '03" from Sonoma and I thought it was outstanding with great balance. But then, at this point in time, my palate kind of leans toward fruit forwardness. I'm looking forward to being informed.


Aaron! You must understand that the title was a sweeping generalisation: I have had some very nice Californian Pinots that I would love to have again (some Caleras e.g.). But like in all generalisations there is a hint of truth in that the trend in Cali Pinots seems to be much sweetness, little savoury character, high alcohol and what to my Eurocentric palate seems like an utter lack of earthy notes!

The Calera and Arcadian Pisoni had these typical Pinot scents, but e.g. Siduri and Loring didn't. You certainly will have more experience with Cali Pinot than I do, but it seems that the Calera style is in the minority. I hope I am wrong as I like that style: it is distinctly Pinot, yet distinct from Burgundy.

Also, the cherry question. I tend to see cherry as a typically Burgundian scent, yet when I add such a word as "candied" or "confected" it becomes a bad sterotype of the fruit-forward New World style IMO. Once again, I hope I am wrong in thinking this style of Pinot the dominant one there.

This probably is more a matter of me liking wines that most other people call tart, overly acidic, thin... I don't know why this could be. I heard an intriguing theory recently. Apparently people's own PHs vary and this will affect whether that person likes highly acidic wines or the softer (which I guess will usually mean sweetly fruity wines due to the lesser acids). I've no idea if this is an Erich von Däniken -like theory or not, but it's certianly an interesting question.

So in conclusion, I think this boils down to just my lack of experience in Californian wines, my wanting to make a catchy title, my love for sweeping generalisations (trolls, I guess) and our palates' differences. :)

-O-
I don't drink wine because of religious reasons ... only for other reasons.
User avatar
User

AaronW

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

191

Joined

Thu Jul 27, 2006 8:45 pm

Location

Just south of SLC

Re: WTN: A Californian Pinot

by AaronW » Sat Sep 09, 2006 1:49 am

Otto Nieminen wrote:
AaronW. wrote:Hey Otto,
I'm curious as to why the description of your blind tasting of a Gamay wine concluded with "candied cherries" and you associated that essence with that of a Calif. Pinot. Does your palate prefer the "earth tones" of a wine or is Cal. Pinot generalized as "candy" wine? I've generally been of the understanding that, varietally speaking, Pinot's are renowned for their "earthy" notes such as- mushrooms, soil, truffles etc.. Which is why my curiosity is compounded. Not that I'm a pinot-ologist, because I'm certainly not; that's why I'm asking. Are there no good pinots from the Golden State in your opinion, because I tried a "David Bruce '03" from Sonoma and I thought it was outstanding with great balance. But then, at this point in time, my palate kind of leans toward fruit forwardness. I'm looking forward to being informed.


Aaron! You must understand that the title was a sweeping generalisation: I have had some very nice Californian Pinots that I would love to have again (some Caleras e.g.). But like in all generalisations there is a hint of truth in that the trend in Cali Pinots seems to be much sweetness, little savoury character, high alcohol and what to my Eurocentric palate seems like an utter lack of earthy notes!

The Calera and Arcadian Pisoni had these typical Pinot scents, but e.g. Siduri and Loring didn't. You certainly will have more experience with Cali Pinot than I do, but it seems that the Calera style is in the minority. I hope I am wrong as I like that style: it is distinctly Pinot, yet distinct from Burgundy.

Also, the cherry question. I tend to see cherry as a typically Burgundian scent, yet when I add such a word as "candied" or "confected" it becomes a bad sterotype of the fruit-forward New World style IMO. Once again, I hope I am wrong in thinking this style of Pinot the dominant one there.

This probably is more a matter of me liking wines that most other people call tart, overly acidic, thin... I don't know why this could be. I heard an intriguing theory recently. Apparently people's own PHs vary and this will affect whether that person likes highly acidic wines or the softer (which I guess will usually mean sweetly fruity wines due to the lesser acids). I've no idea if this is an Erich von Däniken -like theory or not, but it's certianly an interesting question.

So in conclusion, I think this boils down to just my lack of experience in Californian wines, my wanting to make a catchy title, my love for sweeping generalisations (trolls, I guess) and our palates' differences. :)

-O-



Otto,
What is your favorite old world Pinot? With notes etc.
User avatar
User

Otto

Rank

Musaroholic

Posts

4095

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:07 pm

Location

Helsinki, Finland

Re: WTN: A Californian Pinot

by Otto » Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:56 am

AaronW. wrote:Otto,
What is your favorite old world Pinot? With notes etc.


I'm partial to traditional style Burgundy that is too expensive for me to drink on any regular basis. Especially the likes of Armand Rousseau and DRC I love passionately. At a more affordable level, I like some Mongeard-Mugnerets (oddly enough, I hear rumours that Parker likes them too!!!), d'Angerville, Faiveley and of course Drouhin. I've written tons of notes on these and a search here and on the Netscape should make them appear. Do you mind terribly if I'm lazy and don't link them? :oops:
I don't drink wine because of religious reasons ... only for other reasons.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Powered by phpBB ® | phpBB3 Style by KomiDesign