Founded by the late Daniel Rogov, focusing primarily on wines that are either kosher or Israeli.
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Matt Walter

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Katzrin vs. Yarden El Rom 2003 and some TNR's

by Matt Walter » Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:13 pm

Hi Rogov!

I noticed in the 2008 edition of your book that you ranked the Katzrin 2003 as the best new wine release in Israel that year, and the El Rom as #2.

Yet, for the scoring in the same book, the Katzrin was 93 and the El Rom 95.

Just curious what factors influenced the rankings.

TNR's

-Hagafen (red) Zinfandel

-Two or three of the better kosher Cabernet Francs

-2003 Peraj Ha'abib

-The Chateau Leoville Poyferre vintages 2000 through 2004 (kosher)

-Any kosher Gustavo & Jo wines

Thanks alot and Shabbat Shalom!
Matt
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Yoni M

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Re: Katzrin vs. Yarden El Rom 2003 and some TNR's

by Yoni M » Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:09 am

Matt Walter wrote:I noticed in the 2008 edition of your book that you ranked the Katzrin 2003 as the best new wine release in Israel that year, and the El Rom as #2.

Yet, for the scoring in the same book, the Katzrin was 93 and the El Rom 95.

Just curious what factors influenced the rankings.


I think we beat this issue to death back on Stratsplace... The El Rom also has a longer drinking window, and may have constituted the best high-end QPR deal on the market. Then again, Parker preferred the Katzrin over the El Rom, though he followed through with a higher score for the Katzrin; but even then, Parker seems to have been biased towards blends rather than varietal wines.
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WTN: Katzrin vs. Yarden El Rom 2003 and some TNR's

by Daniel Rogov » Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:53 am

Matt, Hi...


With regard to ranking, as said just yesterday on another thread, all lists of 10, 25 or 100 "best" wines are going to be somewhat idiosyncratic and mine are no exception. The ratings of "best" are not made entirely on the basis of scores but on a combination of factors – that including all of the factors that go into scoring a wine and then the quite subjective interpretation on my part of what might be called a "pleasure + intellectual factor"

Following are my most recent tasting notes for those of the wines on your list that I have tasted.

Best
Rogov


Hagafen, Zinfandel, Napa Valley, 2005: A well-focused wine, medium-bodied, with soft, gently mouth-coating tannins and just the barest tantalizing hints of spicy oak. Opens with black cherry and sage notes, those going on to reveal ripe plum, licorice and mineral notes. Long and generous. Best 2009-2011. Score 90. K (Tasted 24 May 2008)

Capcanes, Flor de Primavera/Peraj Ha'Abib, 2003: A blend of Garnacha, Cabernet Sauvignon, Carinena and Tempranillo (40%,35%, 30% and 5% respectively) aged in new and one year old French barriques for about 12 months. Now showing dark ruby towards garnet, with once firm tannins integrating nicely with wood, acidity and fruits. On the nose and palate black currants, cherry and raspberry fruits matched well by overlays of coffee, licorice and a generous hint of minerals. On the long finish look as well for a hint of peppermint. Drinking well now but best from 2007-2012. NIS 130. Score 92. K (Re-tasted 8 Nov 2006)

Chateau Leoville Poyferre, St.-Julien, 2000 (Kosher Edition): Not quite up to the superb standards of the non-kosher version but an enviably made wine. Full-bodied and well-balanced with firm tannins and spicy wood integrating nicely now. On the nose and palate blackberries, currants, chocolate and garrique, all leading to a generous and mouth-filling finish. Best from 2007-2015, perhaps longer. Score 92. K (Tasted 11 Jan 2003)

Chateau Leovile Poyferre, St.-Julien, Kosher Edition, 2001: Deep garnet red in color, medium- to full-bodied, with soft, nicely integrating tannins and generous aromas and flavors of plums and spices, those on a nicely spicy background. A long, blackberry finish here. Best drinking 2004 – 2009. Score 88. (Retasted 22 Sep 2003)

Chateau Leoville Poyferre, St.-Julien, 2003 (Kosher Edition): The non-kosher edition of this wine is one of the stars of the 2003 vintage and this kosher edition, while not at that exalted level, is well worth considering. Full-bodied, with good concentration and with its firm tannins starting to integrate and opening to reveal ripe currant, black cherry and purple plums, those on a background of toasty oak. Long and generous but needs dime. Best 2009-2015. Score 91. (Tasted 22 Dec 2006)



As to kosher Cabernet Franc, following are tasting notes for several wines. Keep in mind that wines given tentative scores were tasted from barrels and are not yet released to the market. Also keep in mind that at least several of the very best varietal Cabernet Franc wines from Israel are from non-kosher wineries (e.g. Margalit, Pelter, Vitkin).

Carmel, Cabernet Franc, Regional Jerusalem Mountains, 2003: Medium-bodied, with generous fresh herbal and tobacco notes set off nicely by blackberry and black cherry fruits. Soft tannins and a hint of sweetness throughout make this a supple wine. Drink now. Score 87. K

Ella Valley Vineyards, Cabernet Franc, 2006: Developed in one- and two-year-old barrels and blended with 5% of Merlot. Garnet towards royal-purple with green and orange reflections, with blackberry and black cherry fruits overlaid with notes of rose petals. Opens slowly in to reveal light tobacco and leathery notes, those on a background of crisp minerals. Tannins rise on the long finish to give grip to this elegant wine. Drink from release–2013. Score 92. K

Ella Valley Vineyards, Cabernet Franc, 2005: Blended with 12% of Merlot, oak-aged for 15 months, this dark garnet, medium to full-bodied wine shows appealing vegetal aromas on first attack, those opening to reveal gently spicy cedarwood, raspberries, blackberries, red currants and generous hints of herbaceousness and white chocolate that come in on the long finish. Drink now–2010. Score 91. K

Ella Valley Vineyards, Cabernet Franc, 2004: Garnet towards dark royal-purple, medium to full-bodied, perhaps in somewhat of a dumb period now, but continuing to show cherry, red currant and wild berry fruits backed up by hints of vanilla and mint along with notes of lead pencils and cinnamon. Austere tannins rising at this stage of its development along with spicy oak Drink now–2011. Score 90. K

Ella Valley Vineyards, Cabernet Franc, 2003: Blended with 15% of Cabernet Sauvignon, this almost impenetrably dark garnet, oak-aged, full-bodied red shows firm tannins and generous wood influence, those balanced nicely by a generous array of black fruits, coffee, vanilla and tobacco, all leading to a long leathery finish. Drink now. Score 91. K

Gush Etzion, Cabernet Franc, 2005: Dark ruby towards garnet, medium to full-bodied, with aromas and flavors of tar, bittersweet chocolate and spices overlaying blackberry and black currant fruits. On the long finish appealing hints of mint. Drink now–2011. Score 89. K

Gvaot, Cabernet Franc, Gofna Reserve, 2007: Not yet a final blend but already showing the potential to be the best yet from the winery. Notes of loam and freshly turned earth identify this immediately as Cabernet Franc, those matched nicely by plum, berry, spicy oak and toast flavors. Tannins here are dry and chewy, but the balance and structure are fine, the wine showing great enthusiasm at this stage and waiting for its elements to come together. Best from 2010. Tentative Score 89–91. K

Psagot, Cabernet Franc, 2006: Medium-dark ruby towards garnet in color, medium-bodied, with soft, gently caressing tannins and appealing spicy oak. Showing appealing red currant and raspberry fruits on a background of earthy minerals and herbs and saddle leather. Drink from release. Tentative Score 86–88. K

Recanati, Cabernet Franc, Reserve, 2006 : With its once firm tannins now integrating nicely, showing medium-dark garnet, full-bodied, and reflecting its 14 months in oak with generous but not imposing sweet cedar. Dark berry, black cherry and plum fruits highlighted by notes of tobacco, bell peppers and bittersweet chocolate, all lingering nicely on the finish. Drink from release–2013. Tentative Score 89–91. K

Recanati, Cabernet Franc, Reserve, 2004: Aromatic, medium to full-bodied, with soft tannins integrating nicely. Showing an appealing array of currant, plums and wild berries, those complemented by light smoky wood, tobacco and refreshing acidity. Drink now–2009. Score 90. K

Tishbi, Cabernet Franc, Estate, 2006: Dark garnet in color, full-bodied, tight and well focused, with chewy tannins and spicy wood waiting to settle down but already showing a fine array of currant and blackberry fruits, those with light peppery and leathery overtones. Drink now–2012. Score 89. K

Yatir, Cabernet Franc, 2006: Deep royal-purple, full-bodied, and showing faithful to the variety with complex black cherry, blackberry and cassis fruits accented by spices, cedarwood, coffee and hints of tar and vanilla. Drink now–2011. Score 90. K

Zemora, Cabernet Franc, 2005: Deep garnet, full-bodied, with now softening tannins and smoky oak opening to reveal plum and black cherry notes, those supported by leather and cedar all leading to vanilla and spices on a moderately long, near-sweet finish. Drink now. Score 87. K
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Re: Katzrin vs. Yarden El Rom 2003 and some TNR's

by Matt Walter » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:42 am

Thanks, Rogov and Yoni, for the info! Didn't know that the Katrzrin vs. El Rom had been covered before on Strat's.

I'll definitely have to get a bottle of the Hagafen Zin (I love Zins and Primitivos!)

As to the Cabernet Franc, I think that the only ones available in the US are the Carmel and the Recanati. I've tried and liked the Carmel and I will likewise try to get a bottle of the Recanati, which seems to be quite reasonably priced.

Shabbat Shalom!
Matt
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Re: Katzrin vs. Yarden El Rom 2003 and some TNR's

by Yoni M » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:51 am

Hi Matt,

I dug up one discussion of the Katzrin vs. El Rom issue.
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Re: Katzrin vs. Yarden El Rom 2003 and some TNR's

by Gary J » Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:39 am

Matt Walter wrote:
-Any kosher Gustavo & Jo wines



To the best of my knowledge there are no plans to make any of the Gustavo & Jo wines kosher. I gather there was a misunderstanding between Rogov & the winemaker (correct me if I'm wrong Rogov) when Rogov indicated in a guide that the winery planned to go kosher.

This winery is truly a family operation run out of a small "winery" on the owners property. A very warm family, but not with any plans of kosher certification...
Wine Tasting Guy
http://winetastingguy.com/
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Re: Katzrin vs. Yarden El Rom 2003 and some TNR's

by Daniel Rogov » Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:29 am

Gary, Hello.....


Thanks for the heads-up on that. I just phoned Gideon Boinjeau of the winery and indeed although he had considered the possibility of kashrut for export purposes, at this time there is no plan to switch over to kashrut.

Best
Rogov
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Re: Katzrin vs. Yarden El Rom 2003 and some TNR's

by David Raccah » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:04 pm

Hello Uber Geek!

How about this one - your notes:
Tanya, Cabernet Franc, Halel, 2006 (Advance Tasting): Dark garnet with green and purple reflections, medium- to full-bodied, with softly mouth-coating tannins. Opens slowly on the nose to reveal notes of tar and chocolate, then on the palate by generous currant, plum and black olive notes, all leading to a long, generous finish on which a distinct hint of espresso. Drink from release-2012. Score 90. K (Tasted 2 Jul 2008)

This one is mine from my blog (http://www.kosherwinemusings.com)on the 2007 vintage:
Tanya Cabernet Franc 2007 (Barrel Tasting) - Score: A
The nose on this deep garnet colored wine is green with violet flowers and vanilla. The mouth on this medium bodied wine is still a bit tannic with acid and red fruit to spare. The finish is long and the acid blends well with the oak to give the wine a fuller feel in the mouth. The classic Cabernet Franc nose rings true, while the classic Cabernet Franc mouth is still hiding below the oak coat.
Checkout http://www.kosherwinemusings.com for my blogs on the world of kosher wines and follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/kosherwinemuse.
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Re: Katzrin vs. Yarden El Rom 2003 and some TNR's

by Daniel Rogov » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:19 pm

Indeed, the Tanya 2006 belongs on the list. As to the 2007, also tasted from barrels, our notes are quite similar.

Best
Rogov
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Matt Walter

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Re: Katzrin vs. Yarden El Rom 2003 and some TNR's

by Matt Walter » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:31 pm

Daniel Rogov wrote:Gary, Hello.....


Thanks for the heads-up on that. I just phoned Gideon Boinjeau of the winery and indeed although he had considered the possibility of kashrut for export purposes, at this time there is no plan to switch over to kashrut.

Best
Rogov


Please pass this on to Mr. Boinjeau: :cry:

I had my hopes up.

Matt

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