Founded by the late Daniel Rogov, focusing primarily on wines that are either kosher or Israeli.
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Craig Winchell

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What does this mean vis-a-vis this forum?

by Craig Winchell » Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:33 am

Where do we go from here? I figure this forum will initially be moderated by someone else, but eventually, if it doesn't prove viable and valuable in its own right, will be folded into the main board here. Will there be enough happening here without constant requests for tasting notes (now that the person whose tasting notes are requested is no longer here)? For better or worse, this forum was dominated by its namessake, both in the basic tenor and in the scope and range of its activities. Will this require another dominant presence, or can it reestablish itself as an interesting place to park ones feet and brain on the net, for both kosher-keepers and not, for those interested in Israeli wines and not? Otherwise, it might as well cease to exist. There was a recent exodus from this board, as its main focus became Israeli and kosher wines, and almost all other discussion ceased. Both before and after that, it often looked like followers hero-worshipping their guru. With him gone, will the novices still attend? With him gone, will other veteran and sophisticated wine enthusiasts step up and participate?

I understand that there is some pain here for some participants. I understand that Rogov just died, the funeral has not yet taken place, and some might not wish to be confronted yet with the realities of the viability of the board, but I think it is in jeopardy, and no time to act like the present. The board has a chance to grow in importance or fade into obscurity. The questions, then, are what do people want from this board, and what must be done to maintain and increase activity and interest?
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Or Shoham

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Re: What does this mean vis-a-vis this forum?

by Or Shoham » Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:47 am

I was wondering much the same thing myself. I do hope that some measure of activity remains - in many cases, I can make good use of notes posted by many of the forum regulars to figure out whether a wine is right for me or not. My concern is that any such activity will center around kosher wines, in many cases ones not available in Israel or overpriced in Israel, rather than Israeli wines - while I certainly do not object to kosher wine discussion, it's not what I'm here for. Time will tell, I suppose.

On a more global level, I think both the Israeli wine and kosher wine industries (with much overlap, of course) will need to figure out an alternative to getting honest reviews of their wine to the public. While there is no filling Rogov's shoes, someone or someones will have to step up and post quality wine criticism regarding these wines - if not, I figure the Israeli wine scene / kosher wine scene will take a significant step backward. I am not familiar with anyone writing such criticism, unfortunately - columns appearing in the Israeli press generally do little more than gush about this wine or that with no form to tasting notes, little consistency, no scores (I know some of you dispute the need for this), and never a negative thing to say.

If nothing else, there are several members of this forum writing blogs or updating websites - I will likely continue to follow these regardless of where the forum goes in the future.
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Re: What does this mean vis-a-vis this forum?

by Jonathan D » Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:36 am

I think the number one key issue is whether this forum can maintain its spirit of consumer-objectivity and avoid being spun out of control by industry types who either directly market their wines or related businesses or indirectly engage in "stealth" marketing through the use of anonymous/dummy usernames (which is virtually impossible to control). The industry has become quite powerful and we Israeli/Kosher wine lovers are like a captive audience of sitting ducks for them. Without the proper moderation, many of us will be duped into making investments in wine under false pretenses with a serious lack of alternative objective reference points. The lack of alternative objective reference points is what makes Israeli/Kosher wine consumers so much more susceptible to being detrimentally misled than int he non-Kosher wine world, in which there are hundred of reputed critics and other circles.

I'm not naive enough to think that this isn't currently happening on this forum. It's just that, with Rogov as moderator, you got the feeling that there was some sense of order and you could always rely on him for an alternative reference point. This made all the difference for me.

So I think it comes down to having the right moderator that will protect us ducks from the predators of the industry...

If this can be addressed, I think there is plenty of interest and enthusiasm for continuing to elevate the forum and the sharing of knowledge that is discussed within it. After all, the Israel/Kosher wine industry is still in many ways in its infancy and interest from consumers will only grow significantly over the long-term.
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Adam M

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Re: What does this mean vis-a-vis this forum?

by Adam M » Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:37 am

I am in complete agreement with Jonathan.
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Re: What does this mean vis-a-vis this forum?

by David Raccah » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:02 am

I am happy that someone asked this question out loud other than me. I truly miss Daniel all ready. Yes we have a breath of data from his books and his upcoming book, but Daniel was not just the "man" in the world of wine for us. He was the nahag (driver) of this forum. He pushed where it was needed and pulled us in where that was needed. I fear that this discussion is crass so soon after Daniel's death. However, it was brought up.

That said, as Daniel said in his own last words, this is a needed space for folks like us all that need a place to find out information and not be sold the company line. Trust me, as stated here, there are many forum members who are here to grow but also to sell us a line. There are many here with agendas. The thing that held this together against all the opposing forces was Daniel.

We need that nahag to help hold us all in line, myself included.

I state this not only for this forum but also for the kosher wine world as well. Who is the next Daniel Rogov? Can there be a another Daniel Rogov - NO! Still, Daniel wanted this to survive him and I think the Israel wine world needs someone to survive Daniel I am sure there are others in Israel who would be clamoring for the chance to be it.

So, for now, I highly recommend that:

1) We find a moderator that has actual and real forum abilities. He/She needs the ability to manage and moderate this forum - the success of ANY community is the ability for the vast majority to feel safe and heard. If we lose that e lose this precious treasure! This person should not agre with everyone - just someone who we mostly to all agree is fair.

2) We need to help ourselves for now, we are all adults. There are folks on this forum that I do not agree with and many I agree with. I am sure I ruffle feathers and visa versa. That does not mean we are incapable of living in a society together. The real value of this forum (other than Daniel) is the information that this forum shares with each other and the wine world. If we do not feel we can share information together we would be truly missing something.

God I miss Daniel - I can only think of these words now....
David

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0f0TMfQNRk8
Daniel is traveling tonight on a plane
I can see the red tail lights heading for Spain
Oh and I can see Daniel waving goodbye
God it looks like Daniel, must be the clouds in my eyes
They say Spain is pretty though I've never been
Well Daniel says it's the best place that he's ever seen
Oh and he should know, he's been there enough
Lord I miss Daniel, oh I miss him so much
Daniel my brother you are older than me
Do you still feel the pain of the scars that won't heal
Your eyes have died but you see more than I
Daniel you're a star in the face of the sky
Daniel is traveling tonight on a plane
I can see the red tail lights heading for Spain
Oh and I can see Daniel waving goodbye
God it looks like Daniel, must be the clouds in my eyes
Oh God it looks like Daniel, must be the clouds in my eyes
Checkout http://www.kosherwinemusings.com for my blogs on the world of kosher wines and follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/kosherwinemuse.
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Re: What does this mean vis-a-vis this forum?

by Ryan M » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:11 am

I don't feel this discussion is inappropriately timed - this is about honoring Rogov's memory.

Despite being one of the Strat's Place crowd that increasingly shifted to the "other" forum as Rogov's place became mostly Kosher and Israeli centered, I too hope to see this place continue, for the sake of Rogov's memory and for all of you who follow the Isreali/kosher scene. And I still look to this forum when I need advice on the occasional Israeli wine.

The role of a new moderator will have to be very different, because no one can fill Rogov's shoes, especially since nobody has (1) the professional experience and (2) the time to do so. A new moderator would need to be simply a moderator, not a doyen who "holds court" in the way Rogov was able to. I would like to propose two people who might be able to lead this place forward:

Perhaps the most appropriate choice would be Gamliel K, who something of a mentee of Rogov with respect to wine writing, if of course he would consider accepting.

The other is an impractical suggestion, but arguably a good one, and that is Gary Vaynerchuk - Vaynerchuk is, amongst professional critics, one of the next-most-passionate about kosher and Israel wines, had huge respect and even something of a relationship with Rogov, and in fact is already a registered member here - he is aware of us. The downside of this suggestion is (1) he alreay has his own Forum, (2) he is not likely to accept, given how busy he seems to be, and (3) do we really want this place inundated by Vayniaks?

I do feel this place needs a knowledgable moderator who is familiar with the Israeli/kosher scene if it is to continue in its current form. As to the culinary side, the Israeli residents and Jewish diaspora here can, I believe keep that side alive with discussion of Israeli/kosher restaurants and recipes. And again, Gamliel, as a chef is an ideal choice in this regard.

Just some thoughts. Agree a plan is needed.
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Yossie Horwitz

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Re: What does this mean vis-a-vis this forum?

by Yossie Horwitz » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:59 am

I agree with Ryan that the new moderator's job would more moderation than anything close to Rogov's role. While he/she would hopefully also generate conversation, it is really going to fall on the forum members to participate, generate topics of conversation and, most importantly, act like adults to prevent things from getting out of hand (and also to maintain the integrity of the forum from commercial aspects (or "predators" as someone so eloquently put it). Continuing the forum in one form or another would be an appropriate way to honor and pay homage to Rogov who dedicated an absurd amount of time and energy over nearly the past decade, and indicated that he would like it to continue in his farewell letter.

Hopefully, we can maintain a forum that holds an interest for all wine lovers and not just those who solely drink kosher wine as, personally, I find their participation and perspective on the world of wine at large pleasurable, of interest and invaluable as an a kosher wine drinker. Also, I hope that some of the many forum members who to date have only "watched" (or "lurked"), will also start to participate on a regular basis.

Under Rogov's watch and guidance this forum has provided us all with an immense amount of knowledge, entertainment, and socialization which is now upon us to continue, in order that this masterpiece Rogov put together, continues, even if in a slightly different form.
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Eli R

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Re: What does this mean vis-a-vis this forum?

by Eli R » Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:46 pm

Friends,

As realistic, thoughtfull, and appropriate this discussion is, our dear Resident Curmudgeon is not buried yet!
Please hold this discussion for at least the 7 days of mouring according to the Jewish tradition, better even 30 days.

Eli
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Re: What does this mean vis-a-vis this forum?

by Craig Winchell » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:14 pm

I must disagree,Eli R, on several levels. With all due respect, this discussion is not about Rogov, but about this forum, and its continuation. And as to Rogov, Jewish tradition recognizes mourning as a requirement only by those close family members of mother/father, wife/husband, brother/sister and son/daughter. It would probably be appropriate for Israelis who are able to comfort the mourners in their homes during the 7 days of shiva, and potentially as life goes on during the 30 days of shloshim. While saddened by Daniel's death, am not a mourner.
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Robin Garr

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Re: What does this mean vis-a-vis this forum?

by Robin Garr » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:15 pm

I will respectfully abide by the seven day mourning if you all wish, but please be assured that as the owner of this Website and the overall forum structure, I will be delighted to maintain this forum in Rogov's memory as long as his friends and the members of this community wish it so.

I will need a volunteer or two to serve as moderators (not replacing Rogov in any way but simply being responsible for the meeting place and working with the rest of the moderators). If, in due course, the group here can reach a consensus on two invidividuals who are willing to serve, I will be happy to work with them.

And now, let us see our friend to his rest.

Robin
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Mark Lieser

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Re: What does this mean vis-a-vis this forum?

by Mark Lieser » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:18 pm

I have been mostly a "follower" on the forum, contributing only occasionally. However, I certainly relied on it to further my wine "education." Were it not for discovering Israeli wines, and discovering Rogov, there is a good chance I would have spent the rest of my life thinking that the kosher, syrupy kiddush wine I grew up with was, well.....wine.

Having said that, I think Rogov took pleasure in the fact that he played a major role in developing the wine culture here in Israel, and enjoyed his online "groupies." I owe him a debt of gratitude for being able to learn from such an approachable master. And I certainly would not want this forum to end abruptly now, or start to wither away due to lack of leadership.

While in some cases it would be inappropriate to start discussing new forum leadership even before the funeral (or before shiva ends), I do not think it is in poor taste in this situation. Rogov's own farewell post strongly encourages this to continue, and I think he would delight in the fact that the members want to make sure it does not die along with him. I think we would, in fact honor his memory by ensuring Rogov's Place's continuity, and unless that effort begins early, inertia due to the absence of a formal leader will make the forum fade into oblivion.

There are obviously many knowledgeable members of the forum. However, without a formal leader, I think there is a significant likelihood that the forum won't last. Its structure would just be too amorphous. I leave it to others to figure out a structure. I fervently hope this continues, and I think we pay tribute to Rogov's memory by acting early to keep this forum vibrant.
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Re: What does this mean vis-a-vis this forum?

by Craig Winchell » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:57 pm

Thanks, Robin. I would suggest that those moderating this board already be among those who participate daily. Personally, while I look most days to identify topics of interest to me, I participate rarely, nor do I have time to actively devote to moderating. Perhaps someone like Raccah. Gamliel K was another name suggested, but he, like me, posts rarely. We know that David Raccah's only agenda is drinking good wine. On the other hand, his interest is almost exclusively in the kosher genre. So assuming Raccah would do it, perhaps it would also be worthwhile to find someone well versed in the general market and someone, perhaps, whose interest is Israeli wine. Any person could moderate, but if a moderator is assigned those posts in a subject in which he is interested, it will be more likely he will keep up with the posts, and do a good job at least monitoring the threads.
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Re: What does this mean vis-a-vis this forum?

by Adam M » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:59 pm

My suggestion would be to not pause for even a second to discuss wine. This is 110% what Rogov wanted.

As for a possible new moderator(s), I think that we should wait until the end of the Shiva period (i.e., beginning Sept 16th). Not because I agree that this is necessary, but because others seems to have sensitivity around this and the last thing we should be doing (and the last thing that Rogov would have wanted) is alienating people. So for the sake of carrying out Rogov's will, I would suggest that there be a short moratorium on open discussions of this topic.
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Re: What does this mean vis-a-vis this forum?

by Ian Sutton » Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:01 pm

It would be great if each of us could bring a little of Rogov's personality to the forum, with helpfulness, insight, thoughtful discussion and an understanding that opposing voices are of interest, not something to be shouted down. In truth, I'd say that was pretty common here anyway, whether from the forumites own personalities, or from us taking the lead from the moderator.

It perhaps says something about this forum, that I've yet to taste a single Israeli wine and indeed the only one I recall ever seeing is perhaps qualitatively the equivalent of 'Blue Nun'. In theory I have no reason to be here, yet there is much that this forum does right in being an enjoyable place for discourse. There is much worth preserving.

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Michael P

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Re: What does this mean vis-a-vis this forum?

by Michael P » Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:14 pm

Hard to add some of the good ideas posted above but,

I see two issues:

Moderators and leaders for this forum and a replacement for the preeminent (and only?) critic with a strong focus on Israeli/Kosher wine.

For the forum - as noted above we should consider having numerous moderators. I do think they should be ready to more then moderate - they should be prepared to enhance by opening new topics and adding to discussions. I second the vote for Gamliel and Raccah, although I don't know who has the time and who has conflicting commercial interests. Nothing wrong with 3 or 4 in my opinion (even 4 can't replace Rogov). I agree that a non-kosher perspective would be helpful.

I can't offer anything on a replacement for Rogov the Israeli/Kosher wine critic. I do hope that whomever steps up will be kind enough to interact on this forum.

edit: would be nice to also have a moderator on the ground in Israel...many wines are released here and not exported etc
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Re: What does this mean vis-a-vis this forum?

by Robin Garr » Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:42 pm

Michael P wrote:
edit: would be nice to also have a moderator on the ground in Israel...many wines are released here and not exported etc

I agree. I hope the moderators who emerge - after seven days is fine with me - should represent the international nature of Rogov's commumity. Certainly someone in Israel! Perhaps also an American and - someone in Europe or the UK? Down Under? It doesn't matter. I will certainly consider working with more than two. Whatever this group decides will work.

And please, again, be assured that we are happy to maintain the Rogov forums as separate places with a particular focus on kosher wines and Israeli wines; and needless to say, the "regulars" are always welcome to visit all the forums regardless of where one considers "home."
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Re: What does this mean vis-a-vis this forum?

by Yehoshua Werth » Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:00 pm

Why ask these questions now.

If Rogov were out town for 7 days or on vacation would we need a new moderator??
Please people.. Relax, put the I-Phones and text in pause.
Is 7 Days so hard for us to be MODERATED.

We love Rogov and are thankful for all. Keep chatting. Keep Sharring and keep Questioning the Wines.
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Pinchas L

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Re: What does this mean vis-a-vis this forum?

by Pinchas L » Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:07 pm

Forumites,

After struggling with this issue ever since Daniel's passing, debating whether to post or not, I've decided in favor of doing so. In part, my struggle is about how to relate to the passing of a virtual person, even though I now know that behind the guise of Daniel stood David, that does not matter much. While these struggles exist whenever one develops a virtual relationship, it is that much more pronounced when a person purposely adopts one identity for the public at large and another for his close inner circle of friends and family, of which I was not part. The feeling that is overtaking me is that with the posting of Daniel's obituary there is no more a "Daniel Rogov", the funeral will be for David Goroff or whatever is his true identity. I don't intend to be disrespectful, in fact I am respecting his choice. That not withstanding, there is still loss involved with the passing of a virtual acquaintance, and the virtual community develops its form of grieving, mourning, celebration of life and accomplishments etcetera. Many of the social traditions that help us deal with issues of life and death were developed for "brick and mortar" beings, not being easily transferable to the virtual reality we are in, requiring us to develop new ones. While those that met Daniel in person might feel it crass for certain discussions to take place prior to the funeral, others to whom he remains a virtual person do not necessarily share those feelings.

Daniel contributed much to this forum, and I acknowledge those contributions. Of all the things I liked on the forum, I enjoyed most the interaction between Daniel, a self-proclaimed hedonistic secular person and those of us, treating him like a Hassidic Rabbi, almost tangibly struggling to reconcile their personal beliefs, never mind their palates, with those of Daniel.

What might have been overlooked, is the increasing number of participating leading winemakers who grace this forum, contributing--if only-- occasionally. While I believe, that the participation of some was in part out of respect for Daniel, I hope they will not only continue to participate, but increase their level of participation and contribution in an open and transparent manner. The insights of Craig and the reflections of Louis Pasco, were always entertaining. While some expressed their fear of commercial interests taking over the discourse in the forum, I would like to point out that our mother forum, WLDG, has proven that it is very possible to run a forum without that happening.

This forum will flourish so long as people are, willing to share their passion for wine, and--more importantly--committed to welcoming every point of view, being as inclusive as possible. IMHO there can be posts that relate to some of the finer points in the intersection between wine and Jewish law, provided that the topics are clearly marked and inoffensive. A clear demarcation of those threads will allow those people to whom certain topics are of no interest, to avoid them. On the other hand, I would like to see more threads with a greater universal appeal. It will be the job of the moderators to promote this inclusiveness. Hopefully, the right people step forward.

Best Regards,
-> Pinchas
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Re: What does this mean vis-a-vis this forum?

by Doug Z » Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:21 am

some reflections on these sad days..

im posting here, i refrained from adding to rogov's obit thread, at first from sadness and now because i think i direct what i write to those of us who "lived" here and not all the other well wishers from the top side of the board index...

also ironic in that i think i was the first to actually read rogov's farewell missive...on wed morning i was up early and as usual checked my emails and then the forum...again to my consternation no rogov posts...i had a very bad feeling these past days that something was really and seriously amiss, that morning i even did a quick google search..."rogov illness" and "rogov ailing" to see if i missed any news items but nothing. i starting worrying the previous friday with no rogov post on the friday "weekend wines' thread by harry. minutes later i looked at the forum again and saw the obit thread with no views yet and opened it and my heart sunk like a stone. strangely and absolutely irrationally, i noticed on the little line that says who is signed in and browsing the forum,me and daniel rogov. and i thought...my lord, he has died, entered the next world and yet here he is logged in and lurking the forum, how typical. it took a few seconds for reality to hit and realize it was obviously a family member posting in his name. but for a few moments...i actually believed this.i saw david raccah's post about maybe it being a joke, but i knew it immediatly it was true and although shocked, was not surprised. it seeemed obvious to me that things were dire.

anyway...for the past days, my mind fills with rogov memories and ideas. went out to eat last night and thought, what did rogov write about this place...i look in my wine fridge (eurocave based on his suggestion) and see shelves filled with wines bought explicitly after one of his notes...eg...the ruffino modus, the dows port, as well as a host of israeli and world wines all bought on his advice. i cant escape it..talk of being haunted by ghosts...

i remember our last personal meeting, by chance at derech hayayin at savyon junction on a friday before the summer, we sat and talked a half hour about this and that, mostly italy...tuscany, my daughter was on her way for the summer to siena and he spoke of his time and a specific little hotel now turned apartments in florence. but we also spoke of nyc, were we both grew up,...i remember being absolutely amazed rogov knew the tv show the bowery boys with leo gorcey which was for me the funniest thing in the world as a kid.
he autographed my 2011 wine guide. i wonder if the 2012 will be published?

anyway...so now no rogov...i will deeply miss reading him, his eloquence and breath of knowledge was astounding...i knew i could not compete on the culinary or wine world but i loved to read him about the non wine world, his views on thought, history, whatever, a real renaissance man.

and so...as some ask, what of the future? well, i know for myself, i will leave this particular forum. as it is i also was getting quite tired of the on going religious issues of shmita and otzar beis din (hey, i specifically spelled that beis and not bet...haha) and all the other stuff... for me it just got too tedious to wade through...i know that world all too well and enough said vehamevin yavin.

in addition, and with no offense to anyone else here...the only reason i came to this forum was to read rogov, on wine or otherwise as mentioned. i think this place may fade now over time with some moving to the general forum. maybe i will also, maybe not, i dont know.

i think the koshers (forgive the appellation, non other comes to mind) will be the ones who suffer the most rogov's loss as daniel's notes on kosher wines are so unique while the big world has many respected critics and writers...

anyway...in lieu of harrys friday weekend thread, i will just say that tonight i think we will have a petit castel 2008, ( i bought a six pack of them again after rogov's rave review on release) with dinner.

shabbat shalom to you all, and to rogov up there lurking....we will miss u.

(but i wont be surprised if he chimes in to moderate if things get out of hand...)
"I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen
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Re: What does this mean vis-a-vis this forum?

by Craig Winchell » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:38 am

I was also an early reader, though I did not post to the thread until after Raccah's. Doug Z said the kosher posters will be impacted more than others. I think that's true. It seemed the vast majority of posters on this forum were relative newbies in the wine arena, and by that I mean their eyes opened to wine within the last 10 years or so. It the general arena, good wine has been around for hundreds of years, at least, and writers have written popularly about it for at least 5 decades, and possibly up to a century, in Europe. But the general quality of kosher wine has only been good for the past decade or so, and so the vast majority of proponents of these modern quality kosher wines are likewise those who have been recently exposed, especially considering that most of the true proponents are locked into their exclusive use of these wines for religious reasons.

The interesting, and unique thing about this forum has been that it is one of the few places welcoming, in general, to newly exposed enthusiasts. In other places, the presence of those with expertise looms large, and one might be embarassed to ask some of the questions, or make some of the comments, of the type found very commonly on this forum. Perhaps because of the disproportionate emphasis on two particular subjects which are only recent quality developments- kosher and Israeli wines- this forum has actually selected for less knowledgeable enthusiasts. Yet, at the same time, it is a place where long-time amateurs du vin could find compelling topics, and at least one person with whom to discuss them- Rogov. The flavor of this place is welcoming and nurturing, instructive and educational, yet at the same time at least open to more advanced topics. There are plenty of places on the web to communicate with experienced, opinionated, wine enthusiasts. This is perhaps the only active forum for those still learning what they like and why they like it, those unsure of their own tastes or those who wish to broaden their wine horizons.

Any future iteration of this board should attempt to preserve this flavor, while at the same time building the population of active participants in issues more interesting to veteran enthusiasts. I am not sure how to achieve that balance.
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Re: What does this mean vis-a-vis this forum?

by Robin Garr » Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:30 pm

Craig Winchell wrote:Any future iteration of this board should attempt to preserve this flavor, while at the same time building the population of active participants in issues more interesting to veteran enthusiasts. I am not sure how to achieve that balance.

Please be assured that I, personally, and the WLDG moderators, are strongly committed to that exact end, insofar as it is possible with the gaping hole left by our friend Rogov. Rogov and I got on well because this is what we both wanted for our respective forums and for our mutual communities, and I have no intention of changing that. I'm sure that whoever steps forward by consensus to help here - not really as "moderators" so much as welcoming hosts and wine-bar tenders - will share that commitment and understanding.
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Re: What does this mean vis-a-vis this forum?

by ChaimShraga » Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:58 pm

Yeah, I never felt the secular forum was condescending towards newbies.

I really you guys all the luck, but I think the problem is everyone here was used to following a strong personality. I really feel it's a lost cause, but if it works for you, I'll be happy. I'll be glad to help.
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Pinchas L

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Re: What does this mean vis-a-vis this forum?

by Pinchas L » Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:22 pm

ChaimShraga wrote:Yeah, I never felt the secular forum was condescending towards newbies.

I really you guys all the luck, but I think the problem is everyone here was used to following a strong personality. I really feel it's a lost cause, but if it works for you, I'll be happy. I'll be glad to help.


Hi Chaim,

I, too, follow the general forum and find its members very receptive to newbies. The reason I rarely post there is because I do not have much to contribute, and not because I fear ridicule. The Israeli wines I usually drink are unfamiliar to its members and the QPR is simply not there to justify an attempt on the general public's part to seek them out. However, I would perhaps suggest that one of the upcoming monthly topics would be dedicated to Israeli wines in honor of Rogov.

When stating that "everyone here was used to following a strong personality," you commit the sin of generalization. While it is true that many of the threads on this form were merely requests for Rogov's tasting notes and to my dismay were rarely addressed to the forum at large, it is not the case that everyone was simply a student in Rogov's online lectures. There are others here to whom the narrow focus of this forum has great appeal, yet were not merely seeking Rogov's advice. Additionally, this forum could turn into a nice board for local winemakers and connoisseurs to share anecdotes, wine related stories as well tasting notes, if they were ever to admit to drinking wines they do not produce themselves. Whatever the case, even those who were strictly Rogov's followers are more likely to behave like orphaned children who learn to establish their independence and personal identity when left on their own.

Finally, your offer to help keep this forum afloat and meaningful is welcome. The forum will greatly benefit from a greater participation on your part and on the part of others like you who have a broad perspective.

Best,
-> Pinchas
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Re: What does this mean vis-a-vis this forum?

by ChaimShraga » Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:03 pm

Hi Pinchas,

I certainly didn't mean to offend, but that's how things look to an outsider.
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