Founded by the late Daniel Rogov, focusing primarily on wines that are either kosher or Israeli.
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Harry J

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recanati Ready to Open Question

by Harry J » Sun May 13, 2012 9:43 am

bsd
Hi; wine windows are very realitive.I dont know if any studies were done on say a critic like Rogov for instance of how often the predictions were on target and probably often subject to personal taste.Perhaps on a more pertinent level i often would like to know if a wine is ready for drinking or in essence is a waste to open at the present.Often found that the case with say Yarden cabs when they come out.
Would like to get advice on a few to start-
recanati special edition red 2010
dalton zinfandel 2010(not reserve)
Thanks; h
Last edited by Harry J on Sun May 13, 2012 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Gabriel Geller

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Re: Ready to Open Question

by Gabriel Geller » Sun May 13, 2012 10:12 am

Dunno about the Recanati but the Dalton Zin '10 is clearly ready for drinking and should cellar well IMHO till 2015-16.
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Yehoshua Werth

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Re: recanati Ready to Open Question

by Yehoshua Werth » Sun May 13, 2012 3:55 pm

BS"D

Harry,

Agree on the Dalton.

Yet..

Which Special Reserve Red are you refering too.

The 2009 Wild Carignon & the Special Reserve white just arived in the states for sale 1+ month ago.
The Special Reserve Red 2009 in not available in the States till later in the year..
What bottle are you asking about?
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Or Shoham

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Re: recanati Ready to Open Question

by Or Shoham » Sun May 13, 2012 4:11 pm

Harry J wrote:Would like to get advice on a few to start-
recanati special edition red 2010

Based on my very limited experience with drinking windows, I'd tab this one with a "Drink now - 2013" label. I don't think it's going to improve past its current state.
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Stacey B

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Re: recanati Ready to Open Question

by Stacey B » Sun May 13, 2012 4:44 pm

I thought there were only three in the limited series. the Carignan 2010 surely has time, the Petit Syrah zinfandel2010 limited edition(not here yet) does too, and the Syrah viongier 2010(not here yet) I would love to have some thoughts on in terms of cellaring.
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Harry J

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Re: recanati Ready to Open Question

by Harry J » Sun May 13, 2012 5:06 pm

hi; its called special edition not special reserve; its blend and its only available from derech hayayin if it was say reserve i would feel an 09 recanati probably could still use time and this is a 2010.h
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Re: recanati Ready to Open Question

by Stacey B » Sun May 13, 2012 5:18 pm

Which blend?
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Yossie Horwitz

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Re: recanati Ready to Open Question

by Yossie Horwitz » Sun May 13, 2012 8:36 pm

The Dalton "D" Zinfandel 2010 is drink now through 2015. As mentioned the Recanati Special Edition is a blend made specially for the Wine Route chain in Israel where it is (more or less) sold exclusively. The 2010 follows the 2009 blend with a mix of Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot & Shiraz, all from their top Manara vineyard (don't have my notes with me & don't recall the percentages by heart). Drinkable now, I'd give it a few more months and then cellar through 2014.
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Jon Tabak

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Re: recanati Ready to Open Question

by Jon Tabak » Sun May 13, 2012 11:52 pm

My experience in general with Rogov's drinking windows is that his "begin" dates are on target for the most part, but his "end" dates are early.
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Gabriel Geller

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Re: recanati Ready to Open Question

by Gabriel Geller » Mon May 14, 2012 5:30 am

Jon Tabak wrote:My experience in general with Rogov's drinking windows is that his "begin" dates are on target for the most part, but his "end" dates are early.

I second that.
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Alek W

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Re: recanati Ready to Open Question

by Alek W » Mon May 14, 2012 5:44 am

Gabriel Geller wrote:
Jon Tabak wrote:My experience in general with Rogov's drinking windows is that his "begin" dates are on target for the most part, but his "end" dates are early.

I second that.


Me, too.
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Daniel Kovnat

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Re: recanati Ready to Open Question

by Daniel Kovnat » Mon May 14, 2012 7:27 am

I am not addressing the question asked. Please excuse me. But there seems to be so much confusion about the Recanati wines in this string. Recanate "special edition" and "limited series" are terms they do not use. They HAD four series starting from the lowest, Yasmin, and working up to Recanati, and then the Reserve, followed lastly by the Special Reserve (one Red and one White, both blends). This was clear and made sense, until.......

But following their being evaluated by Mark Squires in Parker's Wine Advocate with scores of 90 for two (Recanati Reserve Syrah/Viognier Reserve and Recanati Wild Carignan Reserve) and 91 for one (Recanati Special Reserve Red), their prices were pushed up and they made a "New Series" for these three, calling this the Mediterranean Series. I find these marketing tricks confusing and of no use. For instance, the Galil Mountain blend they used to call Shiraz-Cabernet Sauvignon is now called Alon and it is now a part of their new series called Galil, joining two others which are also not new. I think that their flip-flopping will not help their sales even though I like the new name (Alon).

What do the WineLovers contributors think about the names "a" and "2T" for a couple of the newer "trendy" wine names?
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Re: recanati Ready to Open Question

by Isaac Chavel » Mon May 14, 2012 8:37 am

their prices were pushed up and they made a "New Series" for these three, calling this the Mediterranean Series. I find these marketing tricks confusing and of no use.


I hope they are counterproductive. As soon as Recanati pushed the prices up on these wines (Carignan started at the elevated proces, I think) they pushed me out of buying them. I stick, at most, to the reserve series now.
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David Raccah

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Re: recanati Ready to Open Question

by David Raccah » Mon May 14, 2012 10:11 am

Two points here - open/drink by date and new wines and their prices.

Personally, what I found with Daniel was that his drink by dates were correct - it was time to drink the wine. Whether the wine could last longer or not, from what I found, was irrelevant, the wine was not improving and drinking it now was as good a time as any. Some of the French wines were a bit off, but overall Israel and some American were dead on.

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Re: recanati Ready to Open Question

by David Raccah » Mon May 14, 2012 10:14 am

As to the new wines and their pricing, price is based upon demand or expected demand, they think they can get that price. Time will tell, I like the Alon and for 14 or so bucks a pop, not bad. What it will cost here, will be the real tell. Recanati is trying to enter the higher end market with more of their wines so that they get a good balance of incomes from low end, mid level and high end, here too, time will tell if the market and strategy will hold up.

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Yossie Horwitz

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Re: recanati Ready to Open Question

by Yossie Horwitz » Mon May 14, 2012 11:11 am

On the pricing point, I have less of an issue with the elevation in price - there has been a noticeable increase in quality by Gil and Ido in recent years and pricing is a business strategy like anything else. My main issue for this particular wine is that the it sells for around $28 n Israel and closer to $55 here in NYC which is a substantially different price differential than with most other Israeli imported wines, especially Recanati.
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Re: recanati Ready to Open Question

by David Raccah » Mon May 14, 2012 11:40 am

Yossie there is no escalation in pricing in Israel. Overall the pricing is very reasonable, like I said in the Friday night thread, 129 shek for the 2010 wild carignan is very reasonable. The 2009 was way higher at release, 200 or so shek. So, we agree on the gauging going n in the states, crazy. Buy them in Israel and bring them back, the there is no 2009 to find in Israel anymore.

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Yossie Horwitz

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Re: recanati Ready to Open Question

by Yossie Horwitz » Mon May 14, 2012 11:58 am

Yossie there is no escalation in pricing in Israel.


Agreed (I never said otherwise). Also, the 09 Carignan on release was the same price as the 2010, ~140 NIS, at least in Ra'anana. It is only here in the US. That said, the other side of the spectrum is that many of the Yarden wines are much cheaper here (and basically being given away for free in Mexico).
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Gabriel Geller

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Re: recanati Ready to Open Question

by Gabriel Geller » Mon May 14, 2012 1:13 pm

Yossie Horwitz wrote:
Yossie there is no escalation in pricing in Israel.


Agreed (I never said otherwise). Also, the 09 Carignan on release was the same price as the 2010, ~140 NIS, at least in Ra'anana. It is only here in the US. That said, the other side of the spectrum is that many of the Yarden wines are much cheaper here (and basically being given away for free in Mexico).

Totally agree. Sorry but that's quite pissing me off when I hear about the prices of many yarden wines in AmericaS (Mexico incl.)! As to the Recanati prices yours Yossie are much more on the money than Dave's(sorry Dave but where did you spot those 200sh prices for the '09 and 129 for the '10 Kerem Baal?!).
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Re: recanati Ready to Open Question

by David Raccah » Mon May 14, 2012 1:19 pm

129 at the wine store in machanai yehuda and 200 plus from a store in chasmonim, last year. Either way, prices are nice in Israel for most wines, excluding Yarden, as already stated.

David
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Re: recanati Ready to Open Question

by Gabriel Geller » Mon May 14, 2012 4:20 pm

Daniel Kovnat wrote:the Galil Mountain blend they used to call Shiraz-Cabernet Sauvignon is now called Alon

Sorry but the Alon ain't the Shiraz-Cabernet, there never was Petit Verdot nor Cabernet Franc in the Shiraz-CS and the Alon has spent 12 months in oak while the Shiraz-CS was usually 10. While I liked some vintages of the Shiraz-CS and some not that much, the Alon is really nice and a lot more complex although smooth and ready for drinking while the upper series Yiron needs usually 4-5 years after vintage to be fully enjoyable.

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