Founded by the late Daniel Rogov, focusing primarily on wines that are either kosher or Israeli.

Gatherings / WeeksEnd wine

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Harry J

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Gatherings / WeeksEnd wine

by Harry J » Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:15 am

B"SD
Though not always obvious to the naked eye,there is balance in every part of our world.
Within the social world the oppurtunity of being with others is so boundless.Family,friends,community,poiltics,etc.
The dangers are also often lurking,waiting to trap us in the guise of impatience and or intolerance.
Sometimes more than others we need the strength to remember to avail of the benefits without being burnt by the fire of the moment.
Have a good one; H
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Jonathan K

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Re: Gatherings / WeeksEnd wine

by Jonathan K » Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:15 pm

Plan is for 2010 Four Gates Petit Verdot and 2010 Covenant Lavan Chardonnay.
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Gabriel Geller

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Re: Gatherings / WeeksEnd wine

by Gabriel Geller » Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:06 pm

Harry, shavua tov,

Friday night:

Herzog, Special Reserve, Edna Valley Syrah 2005: As expected, this wine was DOA. Pray and drink up if you have any left.

GMW, Pinot Noir 2010: Cherry red in color with on the nose toasted oak, sweet cherries, violets and strawberries. Medium to full-bodied with on the palate tart cherries, dried strawberries, currants and rose water, somewhat salty minerals, a touch of oriental spices and sweet cedar with bracing acidity and tannins that gently rise in an slightly chewy manner on the moderately long finish . A varietally true, well-made Pinot Noir with a little too much oak but overall quite a fine wine. As well, it is in my opinion much better by all accounts than GHW's Yarden version. 14.5% Abv.

Gat Shomron, 24K , "Ice Wine-style" Viognier 2011: Finished off last week's bottle, delightful.

Shabbat lunch:

Teperberg, Silver, Cabernet Sauvignon 2012: Dark purple with on the nose fresh cassis, cherries and spices. Medium-bodied with on the palate crushed berries, some green oriental herbs and a touch of oak with soft tannins on the finish. Simple but remains a solid, inexpensive mevushal option. 13% Abv.

HHW, Isaac's Ram, Cabernet Sauvignon 2010: Aged for 18 months in oak barrels (most likely a mix of french, eastern european and american). Dark royal purple with on the nose ripe blackberries, cassis, toasty oak and chocolate. Full-bodied with on the palate plenty of ripe black fruit as well as licorice, graphite, a hint of dates, cinnamon and baker's chocolate with great acidity and near-sweet tannins that linger long on the mouth-filling finish. Riper and sweeter than previous vintages but balanced and not over the top, at least not for my taste, was enjoyed by all wine lovers at the table. 13.5% Abv.

Best,

GG
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Re: Gatherings / WeeksEnd wine

by lewis.pasco » Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:53 pm

GG - so glad you like the HH 2010 Isaac's RAM: :wink: :mrgreen:
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Re: Gatherings / WeeksEnd wine

by ChaimShraga » Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:09 am

Sorry, I just can't imagine a Pinot being varietally true at 14.5% ABV.
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Re: Gatherings / WeeksEnd wine

by Bill Coleman » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:57 pm

For $15.99 I picked up a bottle of Chateau Tour du Bosquay 2010 Bordeaux Superieur. Wow! We've had good luck with cheap Bordeauxs in the past, and this was one of the best we could recall. Full nose, peppery with black currents, it was well worth the price (to put it mildly).

Has anyone else had any experience with this wine? I had never noticed it before.
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Re: Gatherings / WeeksEnd wine

by Gabriel Geller » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:46 pm

ChaimShraga wrote:Sorry, I just can't imagine a Pinot being varietally true at 14.5% ABV.

Well Chaim, remember it was the hot 2010 vintage. The wine did show some heat in its youth but that seems to have now settled down. Try it, and see for yourself. Not such a big risk at 60 NIS but I keep in mind that you have far more experience with Burgundy than I do.
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Re: Gatherings / WeeksEnd wine

by lewis.pasco » Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:41 pm

by ChaimShraga » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:09 am

Sorry, I just can't imagine a Pinot being varietally true at 14.5% ABV.


Well my dear Chaim, you couldn't be more wrong. Tons of Pinot from Oregon, California, and yes, Burgundy, is at the highest levels of quality and typicite at 14.5% ABV. Pinot has been known for centuries as a grape that makes high alcohol red wines...

The problem with some Israeli Pinots is that the "labeled: 14.5 ABV" is really just a nice and perfectly legal way to label a wine that's 15.5 ABV!!!!

That and issues about grape cluster over-exposure to strong sunlight in our sweltering mid summer heat...
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Re: Gatherings / WeeksEnd wine

by Harry J » Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:28 am

Hi, gilgal cab 2010.ok but wonder if more bottle age will help. Galil mt pinot noir '09, an off bottle. H
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Re: Gatherings / WeeksEnd wine

by Jonathan K » Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:14 pm

lewis.pasco wrote:
by ChaimShraga » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:09 am

Sorry, I just can't imagine a Pinot being varietally true at 14.5% ABV.


Well my dear Chaim, you couldn't be more wrong. Tons of Pinot from Oregon, California, and yes, Burgundy, is at the highest levels of quality and typicite at 14.5% ABV. Pinot has been known for centuries as a grape that makes high alcohol red wines...

The problem with some Israeli Pinots is that the "labeled: 14.5 ABV" is really just a nice and perfectly legal way to label a wine that's 15.5 ABV!!!!

That and issues about grape cluster over-exposure to strong sunlight in our sweltering mid summer heat...



I have wondered about that before. I have had Israeli Pinot before that just tasted alcoholic and hot. In fact, I have been pretty much frightened away from trying anymore as the ones that sound interesting are available only at a premium
In general good kosher PN is fairly rare in my opinion, the Landsman and Four Gates being exceptions.
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Re: Gatherings / WeeksEnd wine

by Jonathan K » Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:17 pm

So I did indeed have the Four Gates 2010 Petit Verdot but I didn't have much of it. The guests slurped it down pretty fast and why not? It was lovely.
The 2010 Covenant Lavan Chardonnay coulde not be drinking any better and since the guests weren't interested, that is where I spent my time. Might have been my last bottle. I think it is always a good idea to hide 2-3 bottles of Covenant Lavan for a year and forget about them as they routinely drink better a year later.
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Re: Gatherings / WeeksEnd wine

by Mark Lieser » Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:24 am

Shiloh Cabernet Franc 2008
Gvaot Gofna Pinot Noir 2011 (Shivi Drori told me last Thurs at the wine festival at Binyanei Hauma that the 2012 will be even better than this vintage. Can't wait.)

And, in a nod to Lewis, I can report that this evening I expect a delivery of six bottles of Pasco Project #1.

Shavua tov,

Mark
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Re: Gatherings / WeeksEnd wine

by ChaimShraga » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:38 pm

lewis.pasco wrote:
by ChaimShraga » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:09 am

Sorry, I just can't imagine a Pinot being varietally true at 14.5% ABV.


Well my dear Chaim, you couldn't be more wrong. Tons of Pinot from Oregon, California, and yes, Burgundy, is at the highest levels of quality and typicite at 14.5% ABV. Pinot has been known for centuries as a grape that makes high alcohol red wines...

The problem with some Israeli Pinots is that the "labeled: 14.5 ABV" is really just a nice and perfectly legal way to label a wine that's 15.5 ABV!!!!

That and issues about grape cluster over-exposure to strong sunlight in our sweltering mid summer heat...


Lewis,

I've tasted plenty of great Burgundies that were about 13% ABV. That's my benchmark for quality and typicity. I couldn't care less if there's tons of it made at 14.5% ABV and above. Every single Pinot I've tasted that weighed in at that ABV was terrible and did not to me seem typical of Pinot.

So a few questions:

1. You've actually tasted Pinot at 14.5% ABV that you found to be great?

2. If so, do you actually consider yourself a lover of Pinot?

3. I thought most of the major classic grapes could make lousy high alcohol wines if you don't manage them right. Why pick on Pinot in that respect? And on that same track, if a grape makes better wines at low ABV, wouldn't you calibrate its typicity at the ABV where it shows it best?
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Re: Gatherings / WeeksEnd wine

by lewis.pasco » Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:09 pm

Chaim, I had written a longer response but it seems my net connection went don right when I posted it so I'l just repost the 1st part of my response. Do you have an ebulliometer at home to measure ABVs of wines you find great?

If you don't, then you have no idea whether the Brugundy you just loved that has 13% ABV written on the label is really 13% or 11.5% or 14.5%, because most international wine law allows for the ABV to be +/- 1.5% from the value written on the label.

Lots of great Cali Pinots are 14% ABV or more, and Cali Pinots - the good ones which are prolific nowadays - are consistently better Pinots than their dollar for dollar comparable Burgundian peers.

What makes a great vintage in Burgundy compared to the more frequent mediocre ones? Ripeness...
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Re: Gatherings / WeeksEnd wine

by ChaimShraga » Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:58 pm

I'm not sure you really get Burgundy, Lewis.
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Re: Gatherings / WeeksEnd wine

by lewis.pasco » Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:11 pm

Chaim, maybe I don't. Not anymore since quite a while ago when truly good Burgundies typically surpassed $50 and even $100 per bottle.

Maybe you GET BURGUNDY so well that you cannot objectively sense what good Pinot Noir is, and I would agree they are not necessarily the same thing.

Of course I have had absolutely fantastic CA Pinots that there is no way in heck you would be able to say with certainly that they were not Burgundies. Great Burgundies. 1981 David Bruce Santa Cruz Pinot, for example, as silky smooth an elegant and racy in aroma and changeable over a 2 hour drinking window like few Burgundies attain.

Or have a look at the profile on Merry Edwards from the PinotFile blog, written by the self-proclaimed "Prince of Pinot" about Merry Edwards, the "Queen" of Pinot Noir, (never mind the genius who writes this blog is confused and merged Merry Edwards and Carole Meredith into one single superwoman of Pinot). Merry is pretty widely known for having a relatively restrained hand with Pinot whose wines are extremely elegant and true to typicite. One MW I know says Merry is her favorite producer of CA Pinot and she has collected hundreds of bottles of Merry's wine in her personal cellar.

Look at the alcohol levels on the wines (and knowing Merry, those are accurate +/- 0.1% ABV. The average ABV for those Pinots in 14.3 ABV.

http://www.princeofpinot.com/winery/155/
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Re: Gatherings / WeeksEnd wine

by lewis.pasco » Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:33 pm

BTW Chaim, I enjoy the "argument" and was sincere in the 1st line I posted above.

But also, as much as I can recall a flavor profile in my head from 35 years ago, the 1st great Pinot I ever tasted (and until today it remains iconic in my memory) was a 1970 Claire Dau Bonnes Mares "Vielles Vignes" Burgundy. I drank it in 1980 at perfect maturity. I'd bet now that bottle was closer to 14% ABV than 13%, and that ripeness is partly why it stood out from other very good but not great Burgundies (and Cali Pinots) I drank about that time. No matter what the label said...

Some time ago the Claire Dau plot in Bonnes Mares was absorbed by Louis Jadot, who makes (so far as I know last I checked several years ago) both a Bonnes Mares and a Bonnes Mares Vielles Vignes.
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Re: Gatherings / WeeksEnd wine

by ChaimShraga » Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:22 pm

I just think a good red Bourgogne is about balance and vividness and not about ripeness. Most of the wines I drink are 13-15% ABV. Since I doubt one producer plays around with the numbers more than another, the wines I drink are still going to be one degree lighter in alcohol than a wine that's listed at 14%, on the average.

You still haven't answered my question about whether we should judge a grape's typicity at its best ABV or what it could grow into if left to its own devices.
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Re: Gatherings / WeeksEnd wine

by Pinchas L » Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:50 pm

Hi Harry,

Since I had so many left over bottles from the tasting, I chose not to open new ones, concentrating on the Teberberg Terra Malbec. Stylistically, it is closest to the Flechas, particularly in terms of the weight and use of oak. When comparing it to the Tishbi, I find it meatier, with more oak, but with less acid, and fruit that isn't as bright . It is the kind of wine that gives diminishing returns with every glass you have. That notwithstanding, I'll admit to enjoying the first glass. Overall, it is a nice wine for the price, tasting better than many Israeli cabs.

Best Regards,
-> Pinchas
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Re: Gatherings / WeeksEnd wine

by Pinchas L » Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:00 pm

Bill Coleman wrote:For $15.99 I picked up a bottle of Chateau Tour du Bosquay 2010 Bordeaux Superieur. Wow! We've had good luck with cheap Bordeauxs in the past, and this was one of the best we could recall. Full nose, peppery with black currents, it was well worth the price (to put it mildly).

Has anyone else had any experience with this wine? I had never noticed it before.


Hi Bill,

I'm in agreement with you. The fruit is brighter and fuller than what I'd expect from a French wine at this price, with tannins that were silky smooth. The first time I had it was during a visit to Paris, recommended by the wait staff at a restaurant and served from a half bottle. I had with a steak, and I liked it. When I returned to the States, I found it in a store and, shocked by the price, included it in a blind tasting I hosted two weeks ago. It showed well and was singled out by many that were present, in spite of it being the cheapest bottle around, having a price tag about a third of most bottles present, and a fifth of the cost of many of them.

Best,
-> Pinchas

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