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TomHill

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WTN: A White & A Rose...(short/boring)

by TomHill » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:15 pm

Tried these two on Sat night:
1. G.D.Vajra LuigiBaudana Dragon DOC: LangheBianco (13.5%; www.Baudana.com; Chard/SauvBlanc/Nascetta+Riesling; SS only) Serralunga d'Alba/Barolo 2016: Med.gold color w/ tiny bubbles; rather fragrant R-like/floral melony/Chard/ripe lovely nose; soft rather CO2-refreshed/ersatz acidity quite floral/melony/Chard/mango lightly spicy bit tangy/metallic flavor; med.long floral/melony/Chard/mango bit soft/ripe slight CO2-refreshed/tingly finish; quite an attractive bit R-like nose but doesn't deliver the impact on the palate. $20.00 (SFW&S)
___________________
2. Atlantique CabFranc IGP: Val de Loire (12%; WellOiled WineCompany) GAW/Puilboreau 2016: Light garnet/watermelon color; very light cranberry/watermelon slight herbal/CabFranc/spicy pleasant enough nose; lightly tart light watermelon/cranberry slight herbal/dusty/CabFranc rather weak/vapid/watery slight tangy/earthy flavor; short vapid/watery light watermelon/herbal/CabFranc finish; a pleasant enough nose but pretty vapid/watery on the palate.
$11.00 (KK)
____________________________
1. The Baudana...another white refreshed w/ CO2. If they're going to monkey around w/ the acidity, do it w/ tartaric. not CO2.
Tom
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David M. Bueker

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Re: WTN: A White & A Rose...(short/boring)

by David M. Bueker » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:19 pm

And you "know" they added CO2?
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Well....

by TomHill » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:54 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:And you "know" they added CO2?


Well, David...they didn't state such on their WebSite. But it's pretty obvious on the palate.
Whether they added CO2 at bottling, or kept it in tank to retain the CO2 from fermentation,
that I don't know.
Do you know they added CO2 when you take a drink of Coke?? It's pretty obvious.
Tom
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Re: WTN: A White & A Rose...(short/boring)

by David M. Bueker » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:32 pm

Keep it in tank and thus retaining CO2 is a pretty common activity of reductive winemaking. Do you hold J. J. Prum to account for doing that rather than adding tartaric?
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Hmmmmm...

by TomHill » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:04 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:Keep it in tank and thus retaining CO2 is a pretty common activity of reductive winemaking. Do you hold J. J. Prum to account for doing that rather than adding tartaric?


You don't seem to understand my rant about dissolved CO2 in a wine, David.
Dissolved CO2 (refreshed at bttlg or residual from frmtion) is not a bad thing, per se.
Dissolved CO2 to lend an ersatz acidity to an underacid wine is what I'm whining about. Both of those
I complained about were whites lacking in acidity. The distinction on the palate is pretty obvious. A white
treated w/ dissolved CO2 vanishes instantly once it hits the palate. A white with a proper level of tartaric
acidity persists across the palate and into the finish. They're vastly different sensations on the palate.
And yes...I would call JJPrum on the carpet & give him a sound scolding if he had a high pH/low acid wine
to which he added CO2 or left residual CO2 from frmtion. That's pretty rare in the Mosel, though. Pretty rare that
he'd have to add tartaric..if it's even legal?
Tom
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Re: WTN: A White & A Rose...(short/boring)

by David M. Bueker » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:52 pm

Adding tartaric is legal. Many (not Prum) did it in 2003.

Do you know for a fact that the wine you rant about has added CO2? I would be honestly curious if your legendary tasting skills managed to pick that out with no additional insight. Really...just curious.
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Of Course No...

by TomHill » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:09 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:Adding tartaric is legal. Many (not Prum) did it in 2003.

Do you know for a fact that the wine you rant about has added CO2? I would be honestly curious if your legendary tasting skills managed to pick that out with no additional insight. Really...just curious.


Of course not, David. Do you know for a fact that CO2 was added to your Pepsi when you drink it?
Does it say so on the labl or the WebSite? :roll:
But both of the wines had, to my palate, the telltale sign of CO2, either added or residual from fermentation.
in them. When it's a screwtop (neither of these were), there is a tell-tale pop when you unscrew it. When you pour
it into your glass, there are tiny bubbles perched on the bottom of the glass. A good swirl and they disappear.
Pour another glass and they appear again. Seldom is there a stream of bubbles that rise from the wine itself,
as in a frizzante or sparkling wine.
But, to my palate, the telltale signature of added or residual CO2 in a low-acid white, is that prompt sensation of
acidity that vanishes immediately on the palate, with no persistence of acidity on the palate and into the finish.
Find one of those wines that has CO2 added or residual from fermentation. Lots of luck on going to a producer's
WebSite and finding that information. You could probably e-mail the folks at G.D.Vajra and ask them what the CO2
level was on that wine. They might even answer, maybe even truthfully.
Tom
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Re: WTN: A White & A Rose...(short/boring)

by David M. Bueker » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:11 pm

It was a yes or no question.
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Re: WTN: A White & A Rose...(short/boring)

by TomHill » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:14 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:It was a yes or no question.


Obviously, no. It makes no mention of added CO2 on the G.D.Vajra WebSite. I would not expect it to.
But I work in the WhiteHouse Press Office. "Yes or no" does not apply to me.
I'm permitted to obfuscate!!
Tom
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Re: WTN: A White & A Rose...(short/boring)

by Patchen Markell » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:18 pm

My invite must have gotten lost in the mail. Is it too late to buy you guys the stand mixer you registered for?
cheers, Patchen
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Re: WTN: A White & A Rose...(short/boring)

by David M. Bueker » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:26 pm

TomHill wrote:
David M. Bueker wrote:It was a yes or no question.


Obviously, no. It makes no mention of added CO2 on the G.D.Vajra WebSite. I would not expect it to.
But I work in the WhiteHouse Press Office. "Yes or no" does not apply to me.
I'm permitted to obfuscate!!
Tom


Fake notes! Fake notes!
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well...

by TomHill » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:29 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:
TomHill wrote:
David M. Bueker wrote:It was a yes or no question.


Obviously, no. It makes no mention of added CO2 on the G.D.Vajra WebSite. I would not expect it to.
But I work in the WhiteHouse Press Office. "Yes or no" does not apply to me.
I'm permitted to obfuscate!!
Tom


Fake notes! Fake notes!


It took you long enough to figure that one out, David. Just call me KellyConway of WLDG!! :roll:
Tom
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Re: WTN: A White & A Rose...(short/boring)

by David M. Bueker » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:15 pm

Are you complicit or colluding?
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Re: WTN: A White & A Rose...(short/boring)

by Roberto Vigna » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:38 am

Jancis Robinson had some answer from Vajra about Dragon, but nothing about CO2.

https://www.jancisrobinson.com/articles ... 012-langhe
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Re: WTN: A White & A Rose...(short/boring)

by TomHill » Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:55 am

Roberto Vigna wrote:Jancis Robinson had some answer from Vajra about Dragon, but nothing about CO2.

https://www.jancisrobinson.com/articles ... 012-langhe


Different vintage, David. Hers was in btl maybe 1.5 yrs. Mine maybe only 4-5 months. But she got
the aromatics right. I'll give her an 88 on getting the TN right.
Tom

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