Hochgewachs & Bacchus

Dear whomever can answer this question,

Could you give me any information you have about a riesling designated "hochgewachs"?

I have gathered from the internet that it is a quality designation, but doesn't fall under the QmP classification, correct? The bottle actually reads "QbA," so that proves it so. My main curiosity is: Why, or how, is this bottle classified so if it is "QbA," versus being labled under the QmP ranks? I had thought that QbA was just a fancy way of saying "good, not quite QmP classification worthy." If so, then why bother with labeling a QbA "hochgewachs" if QbA is just an "OK" riesling wine??

This may be my first German wine conundrum, as all have been fairly straightforward thus far

Overtime: I've got some Bacchus as well; all I could gather was that it is a trio blend, but a quick search only yielded Greek mythology and wine bars, schools, and restaurants named "Bacchus ________".

Thanks!

A.B., take a look at http://www.wine-searcher.com

Enter Bacchus, with no vintage info, and you'll get a number of hits.

I subscribe to Wine Searcher Pro, and can give you more hits with a bit more info.

Regards, Bob

Thanks, Bob, but I just got retail information about the wine; I was just looking for general knowledge about the blend, if possible. Like I said, a quick scan of the internet turned very limited information about it. Thanks again!

But, A.B., don't different makers make different blends?

I don't know, do they? I know nothing about Bacchus wine, which is why I'm asking. Everything else I've wanted to know about German wines has been easy to research, but "Bacchus" and "Hochgewachs" have been different. . . .

BAcchus is not a blend, but a hybrid (or is it a cross? I get them mixed up). Sylvaner/Riesling and Muller0Thurgau. So its a grape variety.

I thought hochgewachs was a place where wizards studied, or a QbA where the grapes met a certain ripeness (but chaptalization is allowed)

Thanks for the info on bacchus! Your latter reasoning for hoch makes a lot of sense, I'm just curious why "they" further break down "QbA."

, I'm just curious why "they" further break down "QbA."

Because they're German?

YES! I like that answer It does seem their system is, um--long-winded, so to speak. . . . Nonetheless, I like knowing "why" when it comes to most things, including wine

A.B. here's one definition:

[HOHK-guh-veks] A German term referring to a QbA (see qualitätswein bestimmter anbaugebiet) wine of superior quality made entirely from riesling grapes. To qualify, the grapes must be riper and the wines must pass a more rigorous taste test than those for ordinary QbA wines.

Let's wait for some folks who know the rules to chime in.


Regards, Bob

That's what I'm thinking, Bob. I recall that definition given from Answers.com or something like that; it's clear enough, I suppose, but I'm anxious for someone knowledgeable in German wines to explain furhter, if they could. This would have been a good question for todays TalkShoe had I been available at that hour.

Appreciate your effort, Bob

Bacchus is a vinifera grape variety. I've not tasted any German ones, but it is grown in England and makes an enjoyably tasty crisp floral dry wine.


Cross of Muller-Thurgau and a Silvaner/Riesling cross

[David M. Bueker]

You've got almost everything that is worth knowing about Bacchus. It's a rather productive and easy ripening crossing (exactly what its makers were looking for). If tended with care (which it almost always IS NOT) it can produce decent, if unremarkable wine. There's some planted in Canada as well as home Germany.

Hochgewachs is made from riesling that qualifies as a pradikat wine but is then chaptalized. Basically the idea is that someone took a wine that was good enough for kabinett (or even spatlese) and then chaptalized to increase the alcohol a little bit. It's a very rarely used classification. I've had a couple of good ones (notably a 1989 Selbach-Oster late last year), but rarely see them anywhere. Nobody likes the term.

Thank you, David; that answered my questions beautifully!

Let's wait for some folks who know the rules to chime in.

Following is a link to the relevant section of the German Wine Law as promulgated by the Federal German Ministry of Justice in which the term "Hochgewächs" is defined. (It could well be that these folks don't know the rules, but, still in all, they do make them! )

§ 34 Riesling-Hochgewächs; Der Neue; primeur (zu § 24 Abs. 2 des Weingesetzes)

My humbly submitted, loose and unofficial translation thereof is:

"(1) White quality wine may be designated as "Riesling-Hochgewächs" only if:

1. it is made exclusively from gapes of the Riesling variety;

2. the must employed in making the wine possessed a natural alcohol content which is at least 1.5% by volume greater than the minimum natural alcohol content prescribed for the particular winegrowing region or part thereof in which the winegrapes were harvested; and

3. it has achieved a minimum quality score of 3.0 in the official quality test."

Subparagraphs (2) and (3) address the use of the German term "Der Neue" and the French term "primeur," neither of which is tangent to our current topic.

Dear whomever can answer this question,
Could you give me any information you have about a riesling designated "hochgewachs"?

The other are right about Bachhus- it is a grape variety, but hochgewachs sounds like hogwash to me. But seriously, how did it originate? Perhaps as the Hoch of Wachs. Perhaps it was seen as a better wine than hoch from elsewhere. Just surmising here. Or perhaps because, 'this hoch rocks'.

But seriously, how did it originate? Perhaps as the Hoch of Wachs.

Sue, you may be goofing on us a little, but I'll take the bait and attempt to give a serious answer.

This particular "Hoch" isn't the one from which we derive "Hock," although the "Hoch" in Hochheim, which gave us "Hock," is etymologically the same "Hoch" as in "Hochgewächs."

This "Hoch" means "high" or "superior" and can be equated to the French "grand." The other end of the word, "Gewächs," means "growth" and is akin to the French "cru." In essence, this is a German version of the term "grand cru" and is indeed codified in the German Wine Law as my previous post indicates.

It is what the Germans refer to as a "Typenwein" which is a wine of a specific origin the benchmark values for which lie above those normally prescribed for that particular appellation of origin. Further examples are "erstes Gewächs," "Liebfrauenmilch," and "Moseltaler."

Is the wine better? Beats me! Is it hogwash? Could be as it is indeed a marketing tool.

It's interesting that there is a German sparkling wine made from Chardonnay (apparently sourced in France) with the same Hochgewachs name: This note comes from a litigation concerning Kessler's right to continue to use the word:

Kessler produces Sekt from French wine of the `Chardonnay' grape variety and has been marketing it for about 60 years under the name `Kessler Hochgewächs', a description protected in Germany as a trade mark since 7 June 1950.

[David M. Bueker]

It's interesting that there is a German sparkling wine made from Chardonnay (apparently sourced in France) with the same Hochgewachs name

Given the quality of most sparkling wine produced in Germany it's not that interesting.

It's interesting that there is a German sparkling wine made from Chardonnay (apparently sourced in France) with the same Hochgewachs name: This note comes from a litigation concerning Kessler's right to continue to use the word:

Kessler produces Sekt from French wine of the `Chardonnay' grape variety and has been marketing it for about 60 years under the name `Kessler Hochgewächs', a description protected in Germany as a trade mark since 7 June 1950.

If I were to venture a WAG, this would probably be a matter of personal pride, basic marketing, and the desire for legal grandfathering.

Kessler bills itself as the oldest sparkling wine house in Germany. Their website delineates a history of over 180 years for the business itself. Their presentation also contains all sorts of historical goodies about their location reaching back over 1,000 years, things which (are probably supposed to) make the heart of a mediævalist like myself leap for joy (and would work better than Sominex on normal folks).

It is understandable that they would not want to have a piece of their tradition taken from them, especially since they beat the drum of tradition so loudly. I would say that if the term "special reserve" were codified by the TTB, we would see a similar reaction in these parts.

Kessler: Deutschlands älteste Sektkellerei.

Could you give me any information you have about a riesling designated "hochgewachs"?

Terry Theise, master importer of German wine, has an entertaining and informative take on this question. I'm quoting at length from his freely available German Catalog (2006 edition, page 35 - I noticed it got edited out of the 2007 edition). For more info, see:

http://www.skurnikwines.com/msw/terry_theise.html

"HOCHGEWÄCHS: Do us both a favor and don’t even
try to pronounce this. Just do what I do and call it “hogwash,”
for that’s what it is. Another perfect example of
an idea that started out right and turned into a bureaucratic
nightmare. Here’s the scenario. You’re a conscientious
grower; a lot of your wines exceed the legal minimum
for their quality levels. Especially your QbA
wines, which are near or actually at Kabinett ripeness.
You don’t want to make a thin Kabinett from these
grapes, so you chaptalize. No problem so far. Except that
when you try to sell the wine, now labeled QbA, it competes
against oceans of mass-produced, cheap, lowestcommon-
denominator QbA selling for pennies per bottle
at the corner supermarket. Nobody will pay your
price. Where’s your incentive?

Thus the creation of this new term (actually the co-opting
of an earlier term with a different meaning, but that’s
another story). Think of it as a kind of “super QbA,” or it
you prefer, a chaptalized Kabinett or damn-near Kabinett.
Any chaptalized wine with at least x-ripeness can be sold
as Hochgewächs. You can even chaptalize Spätlese quality
must if you feel like it. Hogwash also has special
requirements in terms of how many points the wine
needs in order to qualify, and, most significant, one hundred
percent purity of vintage, grape variety and vineyard
site—versus 85% as the general rule in Germany.

So you can see why they needed to do it, but the thing
is just so typically half-assed! Why don’t they show some
courage and raise the requirements for Qualitätswein?
Easy answer: because the merchants and co-ops have too
much political clout. But hey, no problem, dude! I don’t
mind struggling my entire career to erase the miserable
impression so many people have of German wine
because of all the oceans of bilge those wineries turn out!"

So, if you're interested in German wine, you simply must read Terry Theise's catalog.

Terry Theise, master importer of German wine, has an entertaining and informative take on this question. I'm quoting at length from his freely available German Catalog (2006 edition, page 35 - I noticed it got edited out of the 2007 edition). For more info, see:

http://www.skurnikwines.com/msw/terry_theise.html

Awesome, thanks! I'm actually kind of embarassed that I missed that

"So, if you're interested in German wine, you simply must read Terry Theise's catalog."

What a great quote, Andrew. Thank you.

And thanks for the lead on the catalog itself.