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Pinot Noir and Bordeaux Recommendations

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RonicaJM

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Pinot Noir and Bordeaux Recommendations

by RonicaJM » Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:15 pm

I have just discovered Pinot Noir. The reason being that I am on a budget and haven't wanted to spend the $$$. Now, I am am putting aside $$$ for several good bottles a month. So, if you have a recommendation for an entry level Pinot in the $20 price range I would greatly appreciate it.

I am a Cabernet Sauvignon/Merlot fan already. But I want to expand into the French counterpart. So, if you have a Bordeaux recommendation in the $20 range I would appreciate it.

R
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Re: Pinot Noir and Bordeaux Recommendations

by Robert Reynolds » Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:05 pm

See if you can find last Friday's Wall Street Journal, the Tastings column's writers listed several, including the 2005 Bogle (which I just bought today). I have yet to have a bad wine from Bogle.
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Re: Pinot Noir and Bordeaux Recommendations

by Bernard Roth » Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:58 pm

Entry-level Bourgogne Rouge from the 2005 vintage would be in the $20 price range, perhaps in the high teens. Look for those sold in reputable wine shops rather than grocery stores.
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Re: Pinot Noir and Bordeaux Recommendations

by Jim Vandegriff » Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:48 am

In California wine, I would suggest the Siduri Sonoma County or Russian River Valley appelation bottlings. It is good pinot noir and excellent for the money. All the best, Jim
in Trinidad, CA, by the sea
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Re: Pinot Noir and Bordeaux Recommendations

by Covert » Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:37 am

RonicaJM wrote:I am a Cabernet Sauvignon/Merlot fan already. But I want to expand into the French counterpart. So, if you have a Bordeaux recommendation in the $20 range I would appreciate it.


Hi Ronica. I say it a lot, but I am sure it is true: nobody can pick out a wine for you until you calibrate your taste against someone who recommends a bottle. You need to find a wine store with an ample selection of inexpensive Bordeaux, and then you must try different ones from different years and areas. Find out if you like the Merlot based Right Bank wines more or the Cab based Left Bank more. Whether you like the soft years like 1999 and 2001 or the powerful years, like 2000 and 2005; or the fruity, forward years, like 2003. Whether you like the racy tannins of young wines or the smooth, complex maturity of older wines (which will cost a little more). Hopefully the store has a knowledgeable staff who can take some time to help you and keep tabs on what types you are trying to help you figure out what you like.
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Re: Pinot Noir and Bordeaux Recommendations

by Robin Garr » Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:24 am

RonicaJM wrote:if you have a recommendation for an entry level Pinot in the $20 price range I would greatly appreciate it.


Ronica, I think Bernie hit the nail on the head with generic Bourgogne (Burgundy). To avoid confusion at the wine shop, though, take note that it's usually labeled varietally in recent decades, as "Bourgogne Pinot Noir" rather than "Bourgogne Rouge."

Louis Jadot (featured in this month's Wine Focus) makes a very reliable Bourgogne Pinot Noir that should be available at just about any good, well-stocked wine shop. Joseph Drouhin and Louis Latour are other large, widely available producers. I've been very happy with Gerard Raphet and Paul Pernot, but they're much smaller and may be more difficult to find, depending on where you are.

The 2005 vintage is currently on the shelves and very good; 2004s are okay but less "ripe."

All should be available in many markets for less than $20, although pricing does vary from region to region and store to store and may go up if the Euro keeps beating up on the dollar.
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Re: Pinot Noir and Bordeaux Recommendations

by RonicaJM » Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:10 am

Robert R. wrote:See if you can find last Friday's Wall Street Journal, the Tastings column's writers listed several, including the 2005 Bogle (which I just bought today). I have yet to have a bad wine from Bogle.


My first Petit Sirah was Bogle 2005. :) Yum.
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Re: Pinot Noir and Bordeaux Recommendations

by RonicaJM » Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:16 am

Covert wrote:
RonicaJM wrote:I am a Cabernet Sauvignon/Merlot fan already. But I want to expand into the French counterpart. So, if you have a Bordeaux recommendation in the $20 range I would appreciate it.


Hi Ronica. I say it a lot, but I am sure it is true: nobody can pick out a wine for you until you calibrate your taste against someone who recommends a bottle. You need to find a wine store with an ample selection of inexpensive Bordeaux, and then you must try different ones from different years and areas. Find out if you like the Merlot based Right Bank wines more or the Cab based Left Bank more. Whether you like the soft years like 1999 and 2001 or the powerful years, like 2000 and 2005; or the fruity, forward years, like 2003. Whether you like the racy tannins of young wines or the smooth, complex maturity of older wines (which will cost a little more). Hopefully the store has a knowledgeable staff who can take some time to help you and keep tabs on what types you are trying to help you figure out what you like.


Covert, thanks for steering me in the right direction. There is a store I have in mind that specifically has left bank/right bank Bordeaux ads. I have taken down the vintage info you gave me and will start my search soon.
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Re: Pinot Noir and Bordeaux Recommendations

by RonicaJM » Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:19 am

Robin Garr wrote:
RonicaJM wrote:if you have a recommendation for an entry level Pinot in the $20 price range I would greatly appreciate it.


Ronica, I think Bernie hit the nail on the head with generic Bourgogne (Burgundy). To avoid confusion at the wine shop, though, take note that it's usually labeled varietally in recent decades, as "Bourgogne Pinot Noir" rather than "Bourgogne Rouge."

Louis Jadot (featured in this month's Wine Focus) makes a very reliable Bourgogne Pinot Noir that should be available at just about any good, well-stocked wine shop. Joseph Drouhin and Louis Latour are other large, widely available producers. I've been very happy with Gerard Raphet and Paul Pernot, but they're much smaller and may be more difficult to find, depending on where you are.

The 2005 vintage is currently on the shelves and very good; 2004s are okay but less "ripe."

All should be available in many markets for less than $20, although pricing does vary from region to region and store to store and may go up if the Euro keeps beating up on the dollar.


I was actually thinking of Domestic Pinot, not Burgandy. But, I am not opposed to trying what you've suggested. Thanks!!!!
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Re: Pinot Noir and Bordeaux Recommendations

by michael dietrich » Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:32 am

I would kind of disagree with the Bogle for one reason. I like the wine but to me it does not really taste or smell like Pinot Noir. This is very typical of the profile of many under $20 Pinots I have tasted. Some of the ones I have liked have been Carmel Road from California or Seven Terraces and Mount Riley from New Zealand. They tend to have more aromatics and fruit characteristics. As previously mentioned you just have to try a few and see what style you like.
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Re: Pinot Noir and Bordeaux Recommendations

by Dale Williams » Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:30 pm

There is a lot of style variation in both domestic PN and Bdx. I'm fairly tolerant, though not of extremes (especally not extremely modern/internation/superripe). With those qualifications, I'd suggest:

US PN: In California, Saintsbury Garnet or Copain's L'Automne. I like OR PN probably more than CA, but hard at under $20. I think A to Z and Foris are ok, as was the St Innocent PN blend (but not sure that's still made).

Bdx: I haven't tried 2005 yet, but supposed to be great. But expect tannins. 2004 is quite variable, but lots of good wines. 2003 seems to be best in upper Medoc (St Estephe, St Julian, Pauillac), but Fronsac on left supposedly fared well. Not for those who shun ripeness. 2002 seems far better on Left (Medoc) to me, but most are shut down. 2001 is good on both banks.

A few under-$20 Bdx I've liked in more than one vintage (styles range from traditional to mid-modern):

Medoc: Fiefs de Lagrange, Caronne Ste Gemme, Tronquoy-Lalande, Gloria, Potensac, Coufran, Lanessan.

Right Bank: de Carles, Dalem (both Fronsac), Cap de Faugeres or Ste Colombe (Cotes de Castillon).

the ones I put in italics are ones I had liked in ripe vintages , but less in cooler vintages, so I'd be wary in maybe 2002/2004.
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Re: Pinot Noir and Bordeaux Recommendations

by Nathan Smyth » Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:04 pm

I always get in trouble for saying this, but in my own experience, in dealing with the markets that I'm familiar with - you're wasting your time looking for good Pinot or good Bordeaux blends in the $20 range.

Every once in a blue moon, you might stumble upon something fun, but it's gonna be a tough, uphill struggle, and unless you can attend lots of free [or heavily subsidized] tastings, you're going to waste a lot of money on a lot of swill before you randomly encounter the occasional gem.

By and large, Pinot & Bordeaux are the two most expensive red wines in the world, and, by and large, you get what you pay for.

Again, I don't know what the market is like down in Dallas, but rumor has it that TX might be a felony state, which means that [at least "technically" speaking] you can't ship from out of state.

And among red wines, Pinot seems to be especially susceptible to heat damage, so you want to be really careful about provenance down there.

Anyway, I'd either up the ante [buy one really nice wine for $60, rather than three lousy wines for $20], or else, at that price point, I'd be looking at entirely different varietals, or at least entirely different regions [you can buy some really fun Bordeaux varietals from Australia in that price range, but they will have completely different flavors profile than the same varietals from Bordeaux France].
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Re: Pinot Noir and Bordeaux Recommendations

by Jenise » Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:32 am

Nathan's right, that with pinot noir you generally get what you pay for, but I've tasted two California pinots recently in the low 20's that defied that generalization: the 2005 Wente Reliz Creek from the Arroyo Seco appellation (which we and dinner guests killed two bottles of just last night), and Swan Winery's Cuvee Trois, also 2005 I think. You'll find several notes on this board praising this wine as ana amazing value.
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Re: Pinot Noir and Bordeaux Recommendations

by Sam Platt » Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:38 pm

Entry-level Bourgogne Rouge from the 2005 vintage would be in the $20 price range, perhaps in the high teens. Look for those sold in reputable wine shops rather than grocery stores.

Second Bernard and Robin's recommendations. Even though you're looking for domestic PN you'll be glad you tried a Burg. The Jadot Bourgogne is available in the $17 price range. I've seen it as low as $14 at Sam's Club.

Among the domestics I recommend the Argyle from Oregon. You can find it in the $16-$20 range. The Argyle "Nuthouse" PN is outstanding, but it runs in the $40+ range.
Sam

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