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So Why Is Terroir So Friggin' Important???

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Thomas

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Re: So Why Is Terroir So Friggin' Important???

by Thomas » Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:43 pm

Gary Barlettano wrote:Besides the rain, I just heard that my favorite local, boutique bakery where I could buy super duper baguettes for 49¢ each closed down.)


You obviously spend too much time kvetching and don't eat enough bread!
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Re: So Why Is Terroir So Friggin' Important???

by Gary Barlettano » Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:32 pm

Thomas wrote:
Gary Barlettano wrote:Besides the rain, I just heard that my favorite local, boutique bakery where I could buy super duper baguettes for 49¢ each closed down.)

You obviously spend too much time kvetching and don't eat enough bread!

Perhaps, although I do have a great reputation for being a loafer ... to be sure, I have been referred to as an as du pain.

Check out his website before he takes i down: Papa's Oven. You'd miss him, too.
And now what?
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Re: So Why Is Terroir So Friggin' Important???

by Thomas » Sat Oct 13, 2007 8:49 am

Gary Barlettano wrote:
Thomas wrote:
Gary Barlettano wrote:Besides the rain, I just heard that my favorite local, boutique bakery where I could buy super duper baguettes for 49¢ each closed down.)

You obviously spend too much time kvetching and don't eat enough bread!

Perhaps, although I do have a great reputation for being a loafer ... to be sure, I have been referred to as an as du pain.

Check out his website before he takes i down: Papa's Oven. You'd miss him, too.


as du pain...lovely!

Nice site. On the subject of bread, just coming back from Piedmont, I have to admit that Italian bread isn't nearly as satisfying as French bread. Why is that, you ask? Italian bread crust isn't so much crust as it is, well, just there.
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Re: So Why Is Terroir So Friggin' Important???

by Bill Hooper » Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:59 pm

Alan Gardner wrote:
Bill Hooper wrote:WTF? Have you never tasted a range of single vineyard wines from the same producer, vine type, and vintage before? How can you explain the vast differences in a German or Burgundian vinters wine arsenal without Terroir? You need a plane ticket or a good wine shop. WTF indeed.


Good starting point Bill. Indeed they are different.
HOWEVER,
Now go back and repeat that tasting, keeping most parameters the same but changing the producer (say, or vintage). Do the wines from the same vineyard taste similar - swamping the effect of the producer? If so, you definitely have terroir. But, my experience has been mostly different. I tend to trust the producer in both Germany and Burgundy, so my belief is that the 'terroir effect' while real is of relatively small significance within a 'reasonable' geographic area, compared to the other factors. It's a ripple - sometimes a wave, in a much bigger wine lake.


Certainly the vineyard manager and vintner have much control over the final product and there are many variables to consider. Wine A may be made from even more select parcels within a vineyard than wine B (even Grand Cru or GG/EG/EL vineyards can be quite large -look at the Scharzhofberg, it's been expanded to include rather 'un-Scharzhofberg' parcels.)
The choice of when to harvest, yeast inoculation or none, fermenting vessel, vine training methods, Organic or Biodynamic viticulture, fining, filtering, temperature controls etc. have a giant impact on the flavor and texture of the final wine.

BUT, I would argue that despite producer, Achleiten ALWAYS shows oily, stinky, burnt rock character, Les Clos ALWAYS tastes of sea-spray and crushed limestone, Berg Schlossberg always shows power and stone-fruit and dry honey flavors. In fact, I'd say that terroir character is so strong in some places that despite the best efforts of winemakers to blur that character and put their own signature on a wine (intentionally or not), Terroir fights its way through and wins in the end.
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Nope...

by TomHill » Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:14 pm

Dale Williams wrote:
A bit of a straw man, isn't this?


Nope. In this discussion on another wine board, the poster totally dismissed the contribution of winemaking, because it was not "unique", and that it was all about terroir. That's would led to my question.
Dale Williams wrote:And even the winemakers you name- if terroir doesn't matter, why doesn't Ridge just bottle Red Blend Wine? Although for my tastes Coturri could probably just bottle one wine, I'd call it Fresh Kills Zin. :)


I think terroir is vitally important to Draper. Which is why they btl so many different wines.

Dale Williams wrote:I must ask, who is Edi Kanti?


Edi Kanti is one of the winemakers in Friuli who makes some rather bizarre wines, along w/ Gravner and Radikon. The ones from those producers I've had are a bit on the bizarre side, but I find them very interesting and I, generally, like them. Sure can't say the same about Tony Coturri, though I do hit one now & then I like. But, then, if I went another 6 months or a yr, it'll have changed into something pretty grotesque. In Tony Coturri's case, wine [b]is[/] a "living" thing.
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Re: So Why Is Terroir So Friggin' Important???

by Oliver McCrum » Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:19 pm

Thomas wrote:Nice site. On the subject of bread, just coming back from Piedmont, I have to admit that Italian bread isn't nearly as satisfying as French bread. Why is that, you ask? Italian bread crust isn't so much crust as it is, well, just there.


I agree; the only area of Italy that has consistently good bread IME is the Alto Adige, at least the German-speaking part. You can buy good bread in Piedmont, but you have to be very selective.
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Re: So Why Is Terroir So Friggin' Important???

by Gary Barlettano » Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:39 pm

Oliver McCrum wrote:
Thomas wrote:Nice site. On the subject of bread, just coming back from Piedmont, I have to admit that Italian bread isn't nearly as satisfying as French bread. Why is that, you ask? Italian bread crust isn't so much crust as it is, well, just there.

I agree; the only area of Italy that has consistently good bread IME is the Alto Adige, at least the German-speaking part. You can buy good bread in Piedmont, but you have to be very selective.

I guess if you really want to buy good Italian bread you need to go to New Jersey. :wink:
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Re: So Why Is Terroir So Friggin' Important???

by Thomas » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:24 am

Gary Barlettano wrote:
Oliver McCrum wrote:
Thomas wrote:Nice site. On the subject of bread, just coming back from Piedmont, I have to admit that Italian bread isn't nearly as satisfying as French bread. Why is that, you ask? Italian bread crust isn't so much crust as it is, well, just there.

I agree; the only area of Italy that has consistently good bread IME is the Alto Adige, at least the German-speaking part. You can buy good bread in Piedmont, but you have to be very selective.

I guess if you really want to buy good Italian bread you need to go to New Jersey. :wink:


Or Brooklyn, once upon a time, but the best breads even then were referred to by us as "the French loaf!"
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