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Recommended Pauillacs?

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MichaelRedhill

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Recommended Pauillacs?

by MichaelRedhill » Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:16 pm

I've recently had the 2004 d'Armailhac and thought it was wonderful, and am wondering what you folks would recommend in the same price range as this wine from Pauillac. Also, I'm curious about the history of this domaine (I understand it used to be the Mouton Rothschild property) and if you folks feel there is a better Pauillac for around this kind of money, I'd be curious to know. Finally, is the 2001 the best recent vintage. I'm a newbie ... can you tell?

Many thanks,

Michael
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David Creighton

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Re: Recommended Pauillacs?

by David Creighton » Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:10 pm

i'll handle the first part of your question later when i am closer to my notes. in the meantime, the recent vintages with the best reputations are 2000 and 2005 - and some people would put 2003 up there as well. the 2001 and 2004 are more 'classically' or 'typically' styled vintages. they are less intense than the other 3 generally. the 2001's like the 1999's before them can be just delicious.
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Matt Richman

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Re: Recommended Pauillacs?

by Matt Richman » Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:19 pm

Michael-

I think 2001 was a very good and somewhat underrated vintage on the left bank (where Pauillac is) in Bordeaux. 2002 was also good on the left bank, perhaps a hair below, but because of market conditions they seemed to have been priced a lot lower. 2004 was also a good vintage and seems relatively well priced. The difference at the moment would be the stage the wines are in. I would guess that the 2001s are generally shut down (although I've heard some opinion to the contrary on some wines). The 2004s I'd guess have not yet shut down, so that might be a good vintage to sample now.

Try Duhart Milon or Pontet Canet (perhaps a bit more expensive) from Pauillac. Bottles from other areas or Bordeaux that I liked in 2004: Leoville Barton, Branaire, Leoville Poyferre, Smith Haut Lafite.

My tasting group is doing a large 2004 Bordeaux horizontal in a few weeks, so I should have some more opinions at that time.

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Jacques Levy

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Re: Recommended Pauillacs?

by Jacques Levy » Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:31 pm

I second Matt's recommendation of Duhart Milon. I will add Carruades de Lafite.
Best Regards

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Covert

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Re: Recommended Pauillacs?

by Covert » Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:40 pm

I agree with David regarding 1999 being somewhat like 2004, which really isn't ready to drink, except for its fresh fruit taste. The 1999 d'Armailhac is very nice right now.

For the future, you might want to pick up some 2004 Clerc Milon, another Mouton property, which Decanter Magazine of GB rates very highly. You should also find that magazine useful. The latest edition rates a bunch of 2004 Medocs.

I'm a broken record when I advise new wine appreciators not to take anybody's word for what is good. You have to go through the work of finding out what you like. Not a bad job. :)

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MichaelRedhill

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Re: Recommended Pauillacs?

by MichaelRedhill » Tue Oct 16, 2007 3:11 am

Matt Richman wrote:Michael-

The 2004s I'd guess have not yet shut down, so that might be a good vintage to sample now.

Matt


I'm afraid I don't know what "shut down" means. Can someone explain? And re, the tragic problem of having to try these wines for myself: it's a hard job, but someone has to do it.

M
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Covert

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Re: Recommended Pauillacs?

by Covert » Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:21 am

MichaelRedhill wrote:I'm afraid I don't know what "shut down" means. Can someone explain?


Some bottles, especially Bordeaux, go through stages during which they appear to be asleep, meaning they don't show or taste like much. A Bordeaux often does this a few years after bottling and can stay in the closed up state for a number of years. And later in life they can take another nap or two. It's hard sometimes to know whether they have finally lost their fruit or are simply sleeping again. For some people, this adds to the mystery of these wines, and adds to other qualities that make them seem alive.
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James Dietz

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Re: Recommended Pauillacs?

by James Dietz » Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:37 am

A couple others more or less in the same price range (vintage matters...even for d'Armailhac which is 50% or more expensive than in 1999):

Grand-Puy-Lacoste
Pontet-Canet


Somewhat more expensive.. Lynch-Bages
Cheers, Jim
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Matt Richman

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Re: Recommended Pauillacs?

by Matt Richman » Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:05 pm

Lynch Bages and GPL are among my favorites, but both have disappointed me in recent vintages. Pontet Canet has been doing good things lately. If you are stepping up somewhat into that price range, I think Leoville Barton (from St. Julien) is an excellent choice and I would very highly recommend Pichon Baron (a Pauillac).

I would completely agree that one should personally taste their way through such things and not rely on anybody else's judgement. But hopefully we've helped you find a place to start!

Keep us posted on your opinions.

Matt
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James Dietz

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Re: Recommended Pauillacs?

by James Dietz » Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:17 pm

I couldn't agree more on the Leoville Barton.. It is consistently perhaps my favorite Bdx.. and it is possible to find older vintages at very reasonable prices, relatively speaking. I have bought every vintage since 1996, with the exception of the 2003.. which I'm hoping someone will gift me.. as it was beyond what I felt was reasonable
Cheers, Jim
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Matt Richman

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Re: Recommended Pauillacs?

by Matt Richman » Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:42 pm

Jim-
The 2003 Leoville Barton is fantastic. A hair behind Cos D'estournel as my favorite of the vintage. It was reasonably priced on release and the price shot through the roof.
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James Dietz

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Re: Recommended Pauillacs?

by James Dietz » Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:46 pm

Matt Richman wrote:Jim-
The 2003 Leoville Barton is fantastic. A hair behind Cos D'estournel as my favorite of the vintage. It was reasonably priced on release and the price shot through the roof.


Well.. it got huge numbers.. so.. that did it.. but compared to a 1st growth, it is still relatively reasonable even today.. 150ish... I say RELATIVELY inexpensive.....

I love that LB has not pushed the price envelope... and I hope it stays that way.

I'm sure I will buy a bottle of the 03 at some point.. :roll:
Cheers, Jim
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Paul Winalski

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Re: Recommended Pauillacs?

by Paul Winalski » Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:48 pm

Brief history of the Chateau d'Armailhac:

Sometime between 1718 ad 1740, the Marquis de Segur sold his Pauillac vineyards off in three parcels. The northern part was bought by Joseph de Brane, who named it Brane-Mouton. The southern part was bought by Francois de Pontet, and is what today is known as Pontet-Canet. The middle part was bought by Dominique d'Armailhacq, who named the estate Chateau d'Armailhacq. When he later bought the estate buildings and some of the vineyard land of the more prestigious Brane-Mouton, he renamed the estate Chateau Mouton-d'Armailhacq. Dominique's heirs sold the estate to Baron Philippe de Rothschild in 1933. Baron Philippe also owned Brane-Mouton, whose name his father had changed to Mouton-Rothschild. He now changed the name of Mouton-d'Armailhacq to Mouton-Baron-Philippe. In 1976 Baron Philippe wanted to commemorate his deceased wife by changing the name from Mouton-Baron-Philippe to Chateau Baronne Pauline, but the authorities wouldn't permit it. So instead he just changed the gender, and so the estate became Mouton-Baronne-Philippe. After the Baron's death, his daughter, Philippine, reverted the name to Chateau d'Armailhac (but dropping the final 'q'). And so things now stand.

-Paul W.
Last edited by Paul Winalski on Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Matt Richman

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Re: Recommended Pauillacs?

by Matt Richman » Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:28 pm

Wow. Now THAT was interesting.

Thanks, Paul.

So I guess Pontet Canet is a good choice...
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Nathan Smyth

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Re: Recommended Pauillacs?

by Nathan Smyth » Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:59 am

.
The 2000 Terre du Lion just got a positive review on this board:

WTN: 2000 Terre du Lion, Saint Julien, Bordeaux, France

Still available in magnums [don't know about 750ml's].

Technically speaking, it's at the very northern border of Saint-Julien, abutting Latour, which is at the very southern border of Pauillac:

GOOGLE SATELLITE: Latour, southern border of Pauillac

GOOGLE SATELLITE: Terre du Lion, northern border of Saint-Julien

There's a little creek separating the two properties, which apparently goes by the name of the "Juillac tributary" [a play on the words "Julien" & "Pauillac", I guess].

If you zoom in on the Google satellite imagery, you can see the sediment from the creek flowing into the Gironde.
.
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Covert

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Re: Recommended Pauillacs?

by Covert » Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:45 am

Jacques Levy wrote:I second Matt's recommendation of Duhart Milon. I will add Carruades de Lafite.


I read that the price of Carruades has gone way up because the Asian parvenues are in love with any wine that has the name 'Lafite' connected with it.

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