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POLL: Are you a smoker?

Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker

Do you smoke?

1. Yes
9
10%
2.. No
77
90%
 
Total votes : 86
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Trevor F

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Re: POLL: Are you a smoker?

by Trevor F » Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:53 am

Smokers, like some Americans, are the biggest whingers in the world.

I smoke the odd cigar occasionally but outside somewhere, in my garden or wherever, so I don't disturb anyone. I don't ask for special rooms or favours or whatever.

Like the US players at the British Open last week complaining about the wind. It's played on a links course by the sea so it's always breezy and the wind changes direction several times a day. When I play, I play into the wind, or wind behind me, and it never seems to make any difference to my score , it's as high as ever.
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Tim York

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Re: POLL: Are you a smoker?

by Tim York » Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:19 am

I used to give myself a New Year's treat of one Havana. I loved it but in recent years have given it up because it lead to a few days of coughing.
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Re: POLL: Are you a smoker?

by Ed Draves » Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:41 am

I quit about 13 years ago and have had weight issues ever since. My Doctor told me he'd rather I was morbidly obese (I'm not even close) than a smoker. My wife will be quitting by October and has my full support.
James, besides my wife, one of the nicest people I know is a smoker.
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Re: POLL: Are you a smoker?

by Ehud W » Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:55 am

I voted "No" though once in a blue moon I may join a friend, smoking a cigar :oops: ... with no wine.

For me, wine tasting and drinking will never go together with smoke, cigar's or cigarette's. I find that smoke odour from a next by person shirt (!) disturbs me as much as perfume odour or aftershave. Yeah, sensitive guy...

I've seen more than a few winemakers, wine critics (Rogov, whom I know, included) and chefs that are smokers, sometimes even heavy ones - I find it hard to grab, though I fully respect it.
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Robin Garr

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Re: POLL: Are you a smoker?

by Robin Garr » Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:40 am

Daniel Rogov wrote:I do have the feeling that I am about to be attacked on all of this. Fair enough and I shall rise to my defense. Let me request only one thing though.....let's avoid deep emotions and try to stay with facts.

I sincerely hope there'll be no attacks, Rogov. Your defense was thoughtful, balanced, intelligent and fair. What's to attack?
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Re: POLL: Are you a smoker?

by Shlomo R » Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:02 am

I am not a smoker, although I do enjoy an occasional cigar (less than once a month). I cannot smoke with any frequency because my wife is truly allergic to tobbacco smoke - if I am to smoke it must be outdoors in an unsheltered area, when I will not be near my wife for several hours. While I support the right of others to smoke, I also appreciate some of the draconian laws in the US, simply because it has made my wife's life safer. WHen we were dating, we had several experiences where we had to leave a movie theater because someone had chosen to smoke during the movie, despite the illegality (this was shortly after the smoking bans were passed). Additionally, I appreciate not having to tell my wife "hold your breath" as we walk the last 5 feet into a restaurant.

With regard to pairing the cigar with something to sip, scotch or a really complex beer (something bottle conditioned and having several years of shelf life).
https://www.bike4chai.com/SolomonRosenzweig - cycling 175 miles to raise money for summer camp for kids with cancer - doing it again for the 5th time in 2016!
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Mike Filigenzi

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Re: POLL: Are you a smoker?

by Mike Filigenzi » Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:32 pm

Daniel Rogov wrote:I am indeed a smoker, fairly heavy on cigarettes and moderate on cigars.

Before I go into a defense of my smoking and how it does/does not impact on my palate, I will say that any intelligent person (myself included) who smokes cigarettes is an ass and that precisely because we know exactly what smoking cigarettes does to our hearts, lungs, circulation system, skin and other parts of our body and how it impacts on our health, well-being and possibly longevity. I have never encouraged anyone to smoke and never will. On the other hand, being both intelligent and informed, smoking is a life option.

As to palate and nose - a good deal of research has shown that those who started smoking at a quite early age develop their repertoire of tastes and aromas on the background of the cigarettes. What that means is that smoking changes but does not harm the ability to taste or smell. When I talk about blackcurrants or gooseberries, the people with whom I am talking and I have precisely the same repertoire and language. Whether our brains are perceiving exactly the same sensations is something I will leave to God and the MRI people to decide.

As to the question of how my smoking impacts on others (the issues of passive smoking and of annoying others), there too I have no problem, the solution to that being simply behaving as ladies and gentlemen, respecting in both cases the rights of others. As to the draconic laws in the USA, Israel and much of Europe these days, let it merely be said that I am opposed to draconic laws of any nature, especially when those come more from Puritanical than logical needs.

In my defense (justification?) let it be said that the majority of chefs and winemakers as well as owners of chateaux and other wine estates in Europe smoke as do the majority of wine and restaurant critics on that continent.

I do have the feeling that I am about to be attacked on all of this. Fair enough and I shall rise to my defense. Let me request only one thing though.....let's avoid deep emotions and try to stay with facts.

Best
Rogov


I remember a thread years ago on another wine board that poked fun at one of the Wine Spectator critics (can't remember which one) for having a prodigious cigar habit. Up until that point, I had always had this idea that wine and food critics must treat their palates like concert pianists treat their hands or opera singers, their voices. It became clear during that discussion that one's perceptions of taste and smell are quite robust and do adapt well to things like smoking. Therefore, I see no inherent conflict in being a smoker and a wine lover. Of course, I'd prefer that people not smoke for health reasons, but it's not my business to berate anyone over such things.
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Re: POLL: Are you a smoker?

by Menach N » Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:33 pm

I love wine and i enjoy smoking, smoked regularly until April 30th 2008, then quit the "regularty" and now i only smoke when im traveling - away from home. (1-4 days a month) its working beautifully ! :lol:
do i see a diff on my nose and palate by wine ? well ... i dont think soo, but one thing though before tasting a wine i would never smoke, so that the smell on my fingers would not interfer, but once i started let say after the first 3/4 glass, then a sigaretta is most welcome :wink:
cigars also but much less because you need company -that would smoke with you otherwise i won't-- and time (30 min) and that doesnt happend often

Ciao ..
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Re: POLL: Are you a smoker?

by Saina » Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:33 pm

I'm quite passionate about smoking. I love a good Cuban cigar (and also some other hand-made cigars from elsewhere in that general area) and I do enjoy a pipeful on occasion as well. But I do not touch cigarettes - and this is an important point, because I think there is a huge difference between smoking a quality cigar or good pipe weed rather than cigarettes.

Simply on the aesthetics of taste, I think cigarettes smell bad, don't taste of anything and are only a vehicle to get nicotine. The aroma of good cigars and pipe weeds are complex and very lovable - some non-smokers have commented that they would love to burn a candle at home that smells of my pipe weed!

Then there is the health aspect: cigarette smoke is inhaled; pipe and cigar smoke isn't. Indeed, some studies (e.g. British Medical Journal 6/28/97 vol. 314) have shown that people who smoke only cigars and pipes have no more lung cancer than people who don't smoke at all (though of course cancers of the mouth are more common than with non-smokers). This study also suggests that inhaling vs. not inhaling is not the only reason that cigar and pipe smoking is less harmful. The tobacco itself is treated differently: cigars are usually twice (with Cohiba thrice) fermented which reduces the amount of tar and nicotine in the leaves when compared with what sort of leaves are used for cigarettes. This sort of studies, combined with how little I smoke make me feel that the pleasure I get is worth the extremely slightly elevated risk. I smoke about 1 cigar or pipeful a week on average - with several months total abstaining in the winter because it is simply too cold to sit outside and smoke something that takes an hour!

Since I smoke so rarely and even have months long hiatuses, I think I can truly say that I am not addicted. (Or if I am, then I have to worry about alcohol as well, since both nicotine and alcohol are substances that cause dependence very easily and I do drink wine more regularly than I smoke!) But one might wonder why I bother to smoke at all, in this case? Smoking a quality cigar or pipe is a slow process. Smoking hurriedly will ruin the flavour by making it burn too hot. After the hectic pace of a week at work, I find the meditative process of smoking to be very therapeutic, anti-social time where I finally get to take things slowly. And there is of course the fact that they can (at best) smell and taste very good.

But I am shocked to hear that so many you have bad experiences with lack of etiquette from smokers. In my experience cigar and pipe smokers tend to be quite strict about not smoking when it could bother others - perhaps because it doesn't seem to be so much a vehicle for a fix of nicotine as cigarettes, so there is with many (most?) smokers no actual need to smoke. I like to think and I really hope that I have been a civilized smoker.

As to how cigars and wines work? Smoking is always a dessert for me, so by that time I am finished with wine. Though I do like a small glass of sherry or madeira with my smoke! :) Perhaps because I smoke so little, I find no change in my tasting abilities the next day after a smoke. I don't really care to experiment with greater amounts of smoking, however. But the smell of smoke does detract from my enjoyment of the smell of wines (except for some reason oxidative wines smell fine to me even with smoke!). But maybe my smoking is the reason I like big and bold wines like Californian Zins so much - that's all I can taste anymore...

-Otto
I don't drink wine because of religious reasons ... only for other reasons.
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Lou Kessler

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Re: POLL: Are you a smoker?

by Lou Kessler » Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:29 pm

Alan Wolfe wrote:Slightly off-subject but Jacques Recht was still smoking last I heard, and Andre Tchelistcheff was also a smoker. My understanding is that quitting changes the palate, but does not necessarily make it better or worse. Apparently one does have to recalibrate.

When we lived in LA Andre Tchelistcheff and his wife Dorothy would have dinner at one of our homes with a group of wine geeks and business associates who had become their friends over the years. Andre did not light a cigarette until we were completely done with eating dinner including dessert. He always asked permission from eveybody present. Andre obviously had a decent palate. Dorothy is still alive and lives about a mile from us and we still exchange Xmas cards.
I used to smoke myself, quit about 30 years ago, very difficult thing to do at the time.
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Re: POLL: Are you a smoker?

by AlexR » Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:56 am

Message deleted by sender.
Last edited by AlexR on Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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James Roscoe

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Re: POLL: Are you a smoker?

by James Roscoe » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:01 am

Deleted for reasons of friendship, etiquette, and good form. :wink:
Last edited by James Roscoe on Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:33 am, edited 2 times in total.
Yes, and how many deaths will it take 'til he knows
That too many people have died?
The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind
The answer is blowin' in the wind.
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Robin Garr

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Re: POLL: Are you a smoker?

by Robin Garr » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:04 am

AlexR wrote:Honestly, how can you help to have a discussion when remarks like this are introduced?

A little sense-of-humor impairment this morning, Alex? It doesn't take too much perception to recognize this statement as a joke.

Your post turns a remarkably civil thread in the direction of flaming and recrimination for no particularly good reason. I hope you'll consider editing your remarks.
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Re: POLL: Are you a smoker?

by AlexR » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:13 am

Robin,

I defer to your point of view, and your suggestion.

I've gone back to read the post in question, and still don't see the irony there.
It is often said that this is not a medium where irony works well...

Best regards,
Alex R.
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Robin Garr

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Re: POLL: Are you a smoker?

by Robin Garr » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:18 am

AlexR wrote:It is often said that this is not a medium where irony works well...

I guess that really depends on the quality of one's sense of humor ...
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Re: POLL: Are you a smoker?

by James Roscoe » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:19 am

Just to clarify Alex, all I was trying to point out was that the media portrays smokers as evil. You never see a "good guy" smoke.

No offense taken by the way. I assumed you were just poking me. I thank Robin for coming to my defense.
Yes, and how many deaths will it take 'til he knows
That too many people have died?
The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind
The answer is blowin' in the wind.
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Bill Spohn

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Re: POLL: Are you a smoker?

by Bill Spohn » Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:54 am

Glad to see this thread proceeding in a civil way (albiet with a bump or two). The subject often deteriorates into name calling, smokers trying to justify the unjustifiable, and anti-smoking advocates acting like smokers had leprosy or some other foul disease.

I wasn't really sure what to put myself down as. I smoked strong cigarettes in university (Sobranies and Gauloises) but smoked for taste and never inhaled (well, that's not quite true, I do recall some sort of herbal cigarette I was urged to inhale once orr twice, but the details are lost in the mists of time). I quickly switched to pipes and then cigars, as what I was after wasn't the nicotine buzz, but taste, and I do not inhale them.

Sometimes I smoke 3 cigars week. Right now, I haven't had a cigar in 2 months. Don't know if that makes me a smoker or not. I treat tobacco like single malt - I enjoy it, and I partake of it whenever the urge comes over me, which usually is infrequently. Do I call myself a scotch drinker? Yup, even though I haven't had a dram in over a month (too much to do in the summer, and too many wine events - both malts and cigars are a leisurely indulgence often best suited to the fall or winter). I think that if either one became a habit to the point where I came home after a hard day/week and said "I just have to have a shot/smoke" I'd be pretty damned worried about myself.

As for smoking in public, I don't like it when people light up (cigarettes at any time, cigars nearby before I have finished my meal in a restaurant) in 'my space' so I don't do it to others. That precludes having a small cigar after a meal other than at home. If I encounter someone else smoking in the great outdoors, I don't react like purity raped and indignantly demand that they move. I move myself (unless it is far enough away that I just get the smell of a good cigar...). It is only when I am trapped in a space that I volubly object if I can't move - been there with women sitting beside one at a wine tasting and had to ask tem to remove her (they did - she smelled like she'd been marinated in something cloying).
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Re: POLL: Are you a smoker?

by Mark Lipton » Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:34 pm

Bill Spohn wrote:I treat tobacco like single malt - I enjoy it, and I partake of it whenever the urge comes over me, which usually is infrequently. Do I call myself a scotch drinker? Yup, even though I haven't had a dram in over a month (too much to do in the summer, and too many wine events - both malts and cigars are a leisurely indulgence often best suited to the fall or winter).


Since my taste in single malts runs to Islay malts, Bill, it's quite easy for me to treat them like tobacco (at least, the smoked sort). As I've had a reduced lung capacity since age 2, I've never been tempted to smoke tobacco in any form, though like you I do recall a few herbal cigarettes and pipes in college that were urged upon me. Since my reasons are so hard-wired, I've never felt particularly noble or virtuous about the decision, nor have I ever felt the temptation to vilify smokers en masse -- just the inconsiderate ones who don't take precautions to make sure that their smoke doesn't annoy me. Since I feel the same about those men and women who bathe in perfume prior to entering an elevator or going to a wine tasting, it's clearly not smoking per se that is the issue :wink:

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Bill Spohn

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Re: POLL: Are you a smoker?

by Bill Spohn » Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:06 pm

You know, when I think about it, smoking and wine drinking have many similarities.

Some people smoke for taste (probably a very small minority), while others do it for the buzz and the fact that they have become physiologically adicted to it.

Some people drink just for taste, others require the buzz from alcohol, and on that extreme of course, are the ones addicted to the alcohol.

I have spoken to many people I would consider to be discerning oenophiles (presumably anyone that hangs out here would qualify) and probably a majority, if being honest, say that at least a part of the enjoyment they get from drinking wine derives from the alcohol induced buzz. I would quite honestly be just as happy if there was a pill you could take that would forever render you immune to the inebriating effects of alcohol. I'd take it in a minute knowing it meant I could never again experience the effects of alcohol. Ask others about that and a surprising number finally admit that they wouldn't and it wouldn't be as much 'fun' if they didn't feel the disinhibitting/inebriating effects.

Interesting.
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Re: POLL: Are you a smoker?

by ChefJCarey » Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:59 pm

As to the question of how my smoking impacts on others (the issues of passive smoking and of annoying others), there too I have no problem, the solution to that being simply behaving as ladies and gentlemen, respecting in both cases the rights of others. As to the draconic laws in the USA, Israel and much of Europe these days, let it merely be said that I am opposed to draconic laws of any nature, especially when those come more from Puritanical than logical needs.

In my defense (justification?) let it be said that the majority of chefs and winemakers as well as owners of chateaux and other wine estates in Europe smoke as do the majority of wine and restaurant critics on that continent.


Daniel, I, too, am a smoker, a chef and an ardent wine drinker. I think you have a grip on this.

While I'm not much of a one for contests, I would put your taste buds (and even mine, for that matter) up against several of the more militant, smug, non-smokers posting in this venue.

Keep on keepin' on.
Rex solutus est a legibus - NOT
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Re: POLL: Are you a smoker?

by Robert Reynolds » Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:24 pm

Never have smoked, never had any slightest desire to do so, and just being around fresh tobacco smoke gives me a headache.
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Re: POLL: Are you a smoker?

by James Roscoe » Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:03 pm

Robert Reynolds wrote:Never have smoked, never had any slightest desire to do so, and just being around fresh tobacco smoke gives me a headache.

Robert, I am in the same boat. I grew up with parents that smoked and could never breathe properly as a child. I continue to have issues with breathing at age 49. I get headaches and migraines fairly quickly if I don't quit the area where cigarette smoke is found. I will admit to being less sensitive to cigar and pipe smoke, but I was never interested in trying either. Each to their own

I will say that the smell of a tobacco barn is very fresh and clean. Drying tobacco is a great smell. You can't miss it on a good claret if you have been in a barn. I hope I don't come off as too smug for Mr. Carey. :roll:
Yes, and how many deaths will it take 'til he knows
That too many people have died?
The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind
The answer is blowin' in the wind.
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Re: POLL: Are you a smoker?

by ChefJCarey » Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:20 am

Nah, that ain't smug. :)
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Re: POLL: Are you a smoker?

by Jenise » Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:25 am

ChefJCarey wrote:
I would put your taste buds (and even mine, for that matter) up against several of the more militant, smug, non-smokers posting in this venue.



You know what? This has been an extremely civil and interesting thread. In fact, the only one who sounds militant is--well, you!
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
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