Zork closure

[James Roscoe]

Bill,
Clearly you recognize chain-jerking when you see it? Are we headed to another flame war ? Should we bring the Zuke back to join the fun? I'm sure he would have something to say, and he could accuse Robin of violating his Constitutional rights at the same time!(Man I miss a good diatribe.) Make love not war! (By the way, I'm on your side.)
Cheers!
James

Hi Tim,
I agree with your statement “cost is not relative to appreciating wine”. Great wines can be had for $10-$15. (Heck with the BBQ sausages (Italian sweet) and onions on Italian bread my family had for dinner today, we enjoyed a Klinker Brick Winery 2003 Lodi Old Vine Zinfandel- $10.99). My mention that your “average” wine consumer will not spend $60 for a bottle of wine meant just that (and it was in reference to a comment in a previous post that your average wine consumer knows very little about wine). Someone who spends $60 on a bottle of wine, I guess would know something about wine therefore he/she will be slightly above “average”. Besides at that price range $60 (for a red dry table wine) indicates a wine “usually” worthy of aging), I would only expect to find a small percentage of these wines bottled under screw-cap (the majority would be bottled under natural cork). Similar to what Peter May posted, I believe this topic is much more complicated and aesthetics and the romance of natural cork has very little to do with it. The science of bottle aging (which I think is not yet fully understood) and what role the enclosure plays in all of this will be the deciding factor for me anyway. If I don’t experience what a mediocre or poor wine taste like – how will I ever distinguish a “Great Wine”? (The quality of all commercially wines from all around the world are on the rise and decent wines are being produced everywhere). What am I suppose to do – take the words of a critic or read about it? Yes I think over the many centuries natural cork has proven itself. It does have its faults and these are being addressed by both the cork industry and wine industry. As for the alternative enclosures time will only tell.

Salute

Hi Tim,
I agree with your statement “cost is not relative to appreciating wine”. Great wines can be had for $10-$15. (Heck with the BBQ sausages (Italian sweet) and onions on Italian bread my family had for dinner today, we enjoyed a Klinker Brick Winery 2003 Lodi Old Vine Zinfandel- $10.99). My mention that your “average” wine consumer will not spend $60 for a bottle of wine meant just that (and it was in reference to a comment in a previous post that your average wine consumer knows very little about wine). Someone who spends $60 on a bottle of wine, I guess would know something about wine therefore he/she will be slightly above “average”. Besides at that price range $60 (for a red dry table wine) indicates a wine “usually” worthy of aging), I would only expect to find a small percentage of these wines bottled under screw-cap (the majority would be bottled under natural cork). Similar to what Peter May posted, I believe this topic is much more complicated and aesthetics and the romance of natural cork has very little to do with it. The science of bottle aging (which I think is not yet fully understood) and what role the enclosure plays in all of this will be the deciding factor for me anyway. If I don’t experience what a mediocre or poor wine taste like – how will I ever distinguish a “Great Wine”? (The quality of all commercially wines from all around the world are on the rise and decent wines are being produced everywhere). What am I suppose to do – take the words of a critic or read about it? Yes I think over the many centuries natural cork has proven itself. It does have its faults and these are being addressed by both the cork industry and wine industry. As for the alternative enclosures time will only tell.

Salute

I agree, Victor.


I guess I'm just an old fashioned sort of guy.

Tim, Of course you can have your opinion about corks. Like you said originally, you like them mostly for aesthetic reasons. Thats cool. Your opinion is as good as the next guys. I'm just dont follow any of your points when you stretch beyond opinion.

Is it my posts are that confusing or is it you just don't agree?

The former. I like cork. I like the romance of cork. I truly enjoy cutting of a foil and uncorking a wine. I dislike cork taint. I dislike wasting my money and effort of aging a wine and having it end up tainted. I dont mind synth for a wine I'm going to drink within a few months of release. I dislike synth for anything longer than that. I like screwcaps.

To respond to your questions, yes I can agree that there are fewer screwcap wines than other closures.

But my honest assessment is that number of wines under screwcaps in my local shops is increasing. Does your honest assessment see fewer wines under screwcap in your local stores this year than last?

And as I have a few years experience now with aging wines under synth and seeing prematurely aged wines (like a 2002 Christoffel kabinett that I recently had) my guess (and it's only a guess) will be even more producers moving to screwcap instead of synth and instead of cork. Even Chateau Margaux put half of their Pavillion Rouge under screwcap for the 2003 release as they are getting more confident in it as alternative closure and are stepping up to the next level of testing. Old habits and traditions die hard but here we have a major Bordeaux house making a move.

when I speak of where this is happening, I never once suggested or even intimated this was a world wide occurance.

Then who was it that said "With all due respect, the vast majority of wine drinkers [here or elsewhere] are opposed to screw caps"? I must have mis-read your post.

This is the point that I just don't understand where you are coming from, Tim. You keep saying to "go look at the shelves". I see the number of screwcaps increasing. Honestly. You must see otherwise.

You make a correlation between what wine drinkers want (or don't want) with what is on the shelves, yet you go on to say "In short, do really think they care if we want the screw caps or not".

Personally, I wouldn't fall on my sword over a statement like you just made.

I have no idea what statement you are referring to.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, Tim. You made some statements as fact, particularly on wine drinks desires, and I just saw no fact to support the statement. I still don't, even with the honest assessment you asked for.

You have yet to tell us why you think the screwcap is "an unfortunate closure". Not one word on why you dislike it so much and has led you on this crusade.

It wasn't all that long ago that music shops were filled with vinyl. I remember staunchly defending vinyl, that nothing will ever replace the true sound you can get from an analog recording. That digital recording is the devil reincarnate. I know there are a handful of us here that still play vinyl but I'm sure glad I didn't bet my life savings on that statement.

There is plenty here to draw reasonable and provable conclusions relative the the sheer lack of screw capped wines on the shelf. Go to your favorite wine seller and observe this for yourself if my word isn't good enough. I think if you are honest about it, you too will see that I called it correctly.

The conclusion drawn is that however few screwcap-sealed wines are on the shelf now, as every week passes the percentage will increase.

Second of all, I never stated anyone equated the 51% figure with anything other than what I correctly identified as a minor growth in screw capped wines.

51%? minor growth? Very droll!

As to anyone being for or against them has very little to do with the wine industry foisting this unfortunate enclosure on us... In short, do really think they care if we want the screw caps or not? Besides, that's what this big push is all about isn't it....make us see screw caps as acceptable.

Inasmuch as the resurrection of screwcaps is due to wine industries in Australia & NZ, it was indeed done at the initative of wineries. Small ones, mostly. Driven by winemakers, and largely against the advice of their own marketeers. Riesling-makers fed up with the poor record of cork as a seal, and with their own evidence of bottles screwcap-sealed 20 years before, in the70s/80s, and which had been ideally served by their closures. Thus did they change. Much to the marketing guys' surprise, knowledgable riesling drinkers welcomed the change.

There is mighty resistance for the screw cap, Bill.

Yes indeedy! The FUD factor. Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt. Encouraged by the cork-makers, who've spent a fortune on PR, and even some money trying to improve the quality of the product they've been foistering on the wine-drinking public for so many years. But it only works for so long. When wines sealed under screwcap prove to age, and do so reliably, it's harder to make a case...

Well, Bill, we are not fooled. A screw cap has a lot of White Port in a brown paper bag baggage to deal with and I, for one, sincerely hope this campaign dies a slow death.

Because screwcaps have been used to seal rubbish wines in the past, that means they're no good at sealing top quality wines now? Interesting leap of logic. Or are you just scared that if an ignorant person sees you drinking wine from a screwcapped bottle, he'll conclude you've bought cheap wine, and your reputation is smirched? Do you drink wine for your own enjoyment, or to impress the ignorant?

Bill, as you may recall, I mention the Australian and New Zealand markets in my first paragraph. In addition, when I speak of where this is happening, I never once suggested or even intimated this was a world wide occurance. Be honest with me Bill...are you telling me that this market is controlling the wine industry? Or would it be more prudent to say the biggest wine producers in the world are in this order: France, California then Australia/New Zealand?

Well, a couple of years ago you could have said "If screwcaps are so good, how come Blanck, Laroche and Gunderloch don't use them?" Can't say that now. So, "if screwcaps are so good, how come Huet, Palmer and Guigal don't use them." Meet you on this thread in 10 years...

Clearly, I am on the mark because the proof is on the shelves of your local wine merchant's store.

There are more screwcaps than ever before. There will be more next year than this...

cheers,
Graeme

Tim, Of course you can have your opinion about corks. Like you said originally, you like them mostly for aesthetic reasons. Thats cool. Your opinion is as good as the next guys. I'm just dont follow any of your points when you stretch beyond opinion.

Bill...everything I post is my opinion. Just like anyone else on this BBS. What concerns me is the vitriolic associations and ill fated responses.

Is it my posts are that confusing or is it you just don't agree?

The former. I like cork. I like the romance of cork. I truly enjoy cutting of a foil and uncorking a wine. I dislike cork taint. I dislike wasting my money and effort of aging a wine and having it end up tainted. I dont mind synth for a wine I'm going to drink within a few months of release. I dislike synth for anything longer than that. I like screwcaps.

To response to your questions, yes I can agree that there are fewer screwcap wines than other closures.

But my honest assessment is that number of wines under screwcaps in my local shops is increasing. Does your honest assessment see fewer wines under screwcap in your local stores this year than last?

And as I have a few years experience now with aging wines under synth and seeing prematurely aged wines (like a 2002 Christoffel kabinett that I recently had) my guess (and it's only a guess) will be even more producers moving to screwcap instead of synth and instead of cork. Even Chateau Margaux put half of their Pavillion Rouge under screwcap for the 2003 release as they are getting more confident in it as alternative closure and are stepping up to the next level of testing. Old habits and traditions die hard but here we have a major Bordeaux house making a move.

I enjoy the same thing as you do. I just do not like the associations of screw caps or to being treated like I don't matter to the wine industry. My dollars are just as green as the rich boyz they cater to. It is contrived and it is foolish to blithly cast me [and other loyal wine enthusiasts like me] aside in the name of the almighty buck.

I am insulted by this screw cap stuff and I will fight it until my last breath.

Nothing is accomplished by standing still, my friend.

Mine, as a serious wine drinker, is a call to action.

This is the point that I just don't understand where you are coming from, Tim. You keep saying to "go look at the shelves". I see the number of screwcaps increasing. Honestly. You must see otherwise.

"Increasing" is not the same as acceptance, Bill. And, if I may be so bold, there is no correaltion between numbers and quality. In other words, because the wine industry has convinced themselves that we moderate income folks don't age wine and just plain do not matter to them beyond the bottom line on a financial report, does not mean the screw cap isn't a less than acceptable enclosure.

That is my point.

You make a correlation between what wine drinkers want (or don't want) with what is on the shelves, yet you go on to say "In short, do really think they care if we want the screw caps or not".

Personally, I wouldn't fall on my sword over a statement like you just made.

I have no idea what statement you are referring to.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, Tim. You made some statements as fact, particularly on wine drinks desires, and I just saw no fact to support the statement. I still don't, even with the honest assessment you asked for.

And I am not trying to be argumentative either, Bill. But the truth is you make all sorts of statements as if they were fact....too. Then you get on me.

I don't get the concept here, Bill. There is absolutely no percentage in getting mad at an individual simply upon the basis of a disagreement.

I don't do that to you nor will I to anyone else.

You have yet to tell us why you think the screwcap is "an unfortunate closure". Not one word on why you dislike it so much and has led you on this crusade.

I have, Bill...several times: To be perfectly blunt, screw capped wine carries with it the image of drunken derelicts on Skid Row drinking Mad Dog 20/20 from a curled back brown paper bag. I summarily refuse to be party to that.

It wasn't all that long ago that music shops were filled with vinyl. I remember staunchly defending vinyl, that nothing will ever replace the true sound you can get from an analog recording. That digital recording is the devil reincarnate. I know there are a handful of us here that still play vinyl but I'm sure glad I didn't bet my life savings on that statement.

Indeed.

But with that came the cost of changing over to more sophisticated equipment or listening devices to listen to those CDs.

Beta was all the rage too, once.

Screw caps are neither sophisticated or amenable to the serious wine drinker. They are, in fact, a step backward.

In my opinion, they are an insult to my knowledge, adherence to time honored ritual and educated olfactory regarding wine and the cork. I reject it and with all my being.

I fully appreciate your point of view and I honor your adherence to it. Honestly I do, Bill. You obviously know your wine, my friend. There can be no doubt.

I just don't agree, that's all.



Peace.

Well, a couple of years ago you could have said "If screwcaps are so good, how come Blanck, Laroche and Gunderloch don't use them?" Can't say that now. So, "if screwcaps are so good, how come Huet, Palmer and Guigal don't use them." Meet you on this thread in 10 years...

It's a deal

I am insulted by this screw cap stuff and I will fight it until my last breath.

I'm sorry that you feel insulted by the use of screwcaps and feel the need to get all worked up over it.

In other words, because the wine industry has convinced themselves that we moderate income folks don't age wine and just plain do not matter to them beyond the bottom line on a financial report, does not mean the screw cap isn't a less than acceptable enclosure.

As far as I'm concerned, the jury is still out on how wines age under screwcap. That's my opinion. I don't have factual data. But I have lost quite a few wines, some very expensive, some quite aged, to cork taint. And I do have quite a few examples of screwcap topped wines now to prove to myself how they will work over time. I'm glad I have these options and I'm glad that certain winemakers (like Bonny Doon, for example) are providing these options. I'm glad to see some of the most established wine makers, like Ch. Margaux, also providing these options so I can build my own rational conclusion.

But the truth is you make all sorts of statements as if they were fact....too.

Please give me one example where I do as you claim here. Just one.

I don't get the concept here, Bill. There is absolutely no percentage in getting mad at an individual simply upon the basis of a disagreement.

I'm far from mad at you, Tim, if that's what you are implying. I understand your crusade now. You just don't like screwcaps. No matter how many people tell you that they like them, or accept them, or present growing trends in their usage, as has been presented to you by others in this thread, my guess is that you will continue to dislike them. That's fine and now I can clearly see this is purely an emotional thing with you. I won't bother you with anything factual.

Screw caps are neither sophisticated or amenable to the serious wine drinker. They are, in fact, a step backward.

As far as being amenable to the serious wine drinker. I consider myself pretty serious about wine. Some of the others that have added to this post in support of screwcap usage like Graeme and David seem pretty serious as well. By stating things so all inclusively as you have it appears you speak for me. You don't. How about saying "..amenable to some serious wine drinkers"? Maybe if you didn't paint with such a broad paint brush, your point/opinion would be clearer.

You are right, Tim, we do disagree. Good luck on your crusade. Hope you have better luck convincing wine lovers than you did here or on JazzCorner <-- clickable

[David M. Bueker]

Tim,

As Bill has said, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. However the idea that you are being cast aside by the wine inducstry, well that makes no sense. Certainly there are efforts underway to makes corks more reliable. But the introduction of screwcaps is not deisnged to insult you, but rather to guarantee you a taint free wine. That is respect.

I can fully understand the worry about long term ageability of wines under cap. Nearly all of us have to see it with our own eyes. But the time will come. If you are comparing screw caps to Beta, then corks are silent pictures. Screw caps are HD DVDs. Sure they lack the romance of going into a big theater (not to mention the stale popcorn), but at least you don't miss the good part when you have to go to the restroom.

My favorite wine shop has a screw capped shiraz as their featured wine in the front of the store this month. People are grabbing bottles of it. They are not afraid. Is Latour under screwcap yet? No. But if corks cannot be improved to the needed degree, then it may soon be. It will still be Latour.

Screw caps are neither sophisticated or amenable to the serious wine drinker.

Gee, should I be insulted now? After all, Tim just said I wasn't a serious wine drinker.

Someone who spends $60 on a bottle of wine, I guess would know something about wine therefore he/she will be slightly above “average”.

Usually, but not always. An old acquaintance of mine who has done quite well keeps some very, very good wines. A very close friend of mine has had occasion to drink some of them. She complimented him on his taste in wine, and his response was, "I don't like wine at all. But I have friends who do, so I keep some around. I don't know anything about it, so I just buy whatever is most expensive."

Hi Isaac,
Yes…… but if the old acquaintance is a friend of Isaac (the “wine geek” from Oregon, whom I consider a wise and knowledgeable wine person) this so called acquaintance, even though he himself has no interest in wine, just by association is a slightly above average wine consumer.

Salute

Guys,

This is not an "emotional" issue with me....it is a serious affront to those of us who see screw caps as something akin to vagrants and homeless people relative to screw capped alcohol in a brown paper bag.

Secondly, the screw cap is far cheaper than a cork or synthetic enclosure. Am I right? It should be setting off alarm bells in everyone's mind because it is fairly obvious that the wine industry seeks to increase the profit margin by enclosing less expensive wine wine cheap enclosures and at the expense of our collective aesthetic sensibilities.

Wine industry new mantra: "Damn the aesthetics, Man...this is profit!"

My "mission" is to make screw caps as difficult an item to make acceptable as it is possible for one man to do. Somebody has to stop the wine industry from dumping all of this screw cap nonsense onto the heads of the wine consumer.

Tell you what, when the high end stuff all goes screw cap, then and only then will I be convinced the wineries actually give two hoots and a holler about the averge guy.


Please direct me to your local Dominus wine seller...oh, can't aford it. Sorry.

[James Roscoe]

Tim,
You seem like a decent guy. Nothing in any of your posts says anything different, but with every post you make it clear that for you screw caps ARE an emotional issue. I really could care lessabout screw caps. When I get a corked bottle of wine I take it back. A bottle under screw cap can still have problems. I guess I don't have the same issues you have with what the screw cap allegedly portrays. for me a screw cap is a screw cap, nothing more, nothing less. I would tell you to "build a bridge and get over it" but I can tell you won't take that advice. Life is too short for this type of misplaced passion. Breathe the fresh air. Have a nice glass of wine. Forget the troubles of the world for a few hours, God nows we have enough to deal with on a daily basis without getting into a frazzle about a little piece of wood. Be good to yourself.
Cheers!
James

Tim,
You seem like a decent guy. Nothing in any of your posts says anything different, but with every post you make it clear that for you screw caps ARE an emotional issue. I really could care lessabout screw caps. When I get a corked bottle of wine I take it back. A bottle under screw cap can still have problems. I guess I don't have the same issues you have with what the screw cap allegedly portrays. for me a screw cap is a screw cap, nothing more, nothing less. I would tell you to "build a bridge and get over it" but I can tell you won't take that advice. Life is too short for this type of misplaced passion. Breathe the fresh air. Have a nice glass of wine. Forget the troubles of the world for a few hours, God nows we have enough to deal with on a daily basis without getting into a frazzle about a little piece of wood. Be good to yourself.
Cheers!
James

Your point is well taken, James...and I am a decent guy. My wife loves me and so do my kids [both my own and those I teach].

And [apparently and surprisingly], I agree with you. I really do.

My issue is with fairness vs hypocrisy, nothing more.

I will never give in to screw capped inexpensive wine until all of the expensive wine is totally screw capped, too. Fair is fair, my friend.


I'm 51, James. I didn't give in to the capitalistic corruption and abuse in the 70's, I am not about to bow down to it now. I'm calling it what it is: The wine industry has lost it's way relative to who gets to afford the good stuff and who doesn't.


It galls me to think that wineries, in purposely pricing us out, have taken it upon themselves to assume all average wine guys do not savor wine or respect it by aging it.

It is arrogance and I reject it, straight out of hand.

Guys,
This is not an "emotional" issue with me....it is a serious affront to those of us who see screw caps as something akin to vagrants and homeless people relative to screw capped alcohol in a brown paper bag.

Well, Tim, that's emotional. Sorry. You might just as well get upset about someone wearing a ready-made bow tie. Does a homeless vagrant wearing a cardigan stop you wearing a cardigan? If 'image' means so much to you, fine, but don't deny that's it has an emotional base. If it really bothers you, decant the wine and then you won't see the thread on the bottle...

Secondly, the screw cap is far cheaper than a cork or synthetic enclosure. Am I right?

Depends on how you look at it. By now, the cost of a screwcap may be less than some corks, may be more than others. I don't know. All I know is that everyone who's switched to screwcaps (and does their own bottling) had to spend a lot of money buying new machinery to re-equip their bottling line. If you scoured the world I doubt you'd find one winery who changed for short-term financial gain. Long-term it's different; all wineries have costs replacing cork-tainted bottles, which should be a saving, and they're also hoping to recoup the uncountable losses from an uneducated consumer not recognising a TCA-tainted bottle and deciding to 'never buy that wine again, it was so horrible.' I expect that's a cost they are hoping to save.

It should be setting off alarm bells in everyone's mind because it is fairly obvious that the wine industry seeks to increase the profit margin by enclosing less expensive wine wine cheap enclosures and at the expense of our collective aesthetic sensibilities.

Conspiracy Theory alert! Let's see, wineries are desperate to (possibly) save a few cents per bottle on the closure, while at the same time they put their wine into ever taller, thicker (more expensive) glass bottles, redesign & reprint labels every few years... Yeah, right.

Wine industry new mantra: "Damn the aesthetics, Man...this is profit!"

No, it's about producting a reliably packaged product. When Australian producer Tyrrell's, makers of the Hunter Valley's best and most ethereal semillon, came to bottle their 2003 white wines, their QA department rejected 29 batches of corks (according to the proprietor, when I spoke to him in late 2004) before finding one acceptable. They went to screwcaps the following year.

My "mission" is to make screw caps as difficult an item to make acceptable as it is possible for one man to do. Somebody has to stop the wine industry from dumping all of this screw cap nonsense onto the heads of the wine consumer.

Well, Tim, whatever the surveys tell you, wines are not being left on retailers' shelves because they're sealed with screwcaps. I think you need to revisit the reason why you're drinking wines. I'm more interested in the product than the packaging. The only reason screwcaps have been resurrected is because cork was doing such a damn lousy job of delivering uncontaminated wine to consumers. That particular aspect seems to be of less importance to you than your desire to fondle a cork. Your choice, but it sounds like you priorities are a bit mixed up to me.

Tell you what, when the high end stuff all goes screw cap, then and only then will I be convinced the wineries actually give two hoots and a holler about the averge guy.

I sense a real class hostility here. "I worked hard to afford to buy wines with corks and now they're making me buy wines with screwcaps which are for drunken slobs, and it's going to make me look bad and that's not fair because I can't afford Dominus with a cork." Sheesh. It ain't about the cork, it's about the WINE...

Please direct me to your local Dominus wine seller...oh, can't aford it. Sorry.

Tim, Penfolds will shortly release a wine called 2004 Bin 60A. It's a blend of Cabernet and Shiraz. It will probably retail in the US for over $300 per bottle. It has a screwcap (actually a choice of closure - 50% are under cork). You can go find a cheap wine with a cork (there are plenty around) and then lord it over the guy who buys a $300 screwcapped wine. That'll make you feel better.
cheers,
Graeme

Graeme,

I wouldn't wear a ready made bow-tie at gun point.

A few cents per bottle...? Right. And the oil companies only ask for what's fair relative to cost vs production. You missed my point, my friend. I am half serious and half sarcastic about the screw cap.


Fairness vs hypocrisy is my issue.














Sheesh, indeed.

Tim, your posts are disoriented. I think what you see as hypocrisy is really timidity: the winemakers are 'floating a trial balloon' by putting their lesser cuvees under screwcap first. I think they will all follow eventually because the cork-makers just can't/won't control quality sufficiently tightly.

[ Is it "fair" that it is the commonly-available wines that undergo the experiment first? I see that as a difficult question to understand, and I can think of far more urgent matters that have used the public at-large for experimentation (e.g., the US government's Food Pyramid recommendations). ]

You may believe me when I say that I, too, have no truck with hypocrisy. I have learned, over 46 years, however, that bad behavior is more often due to ignorance than to malice.

Interestingly, Jeff, the pattern of adoption over here was rather random. The riesling makers had little hesitation, except, perhaps for the very bottom-of-the-market, residual-sugar-filled examples. These Australian 'white zins' stayed with cork for longest - indeed a few of them still use cork. Virtually all the mid-range and top-end rieslings changed within 2 years. Other whites - Semillon & Sauv Blanc blends changed quickly as well - and most of the top labels at the same speed as the lesser ones. Chardonnays dragged a bit - often the cheapest stayed with cork, the mid-range went to screwcap, the top wines stayed a vintage or two longer under cork, then went to screwcap. Even today, when Leeuwin, Cullen, Pierro, Tyrrells (the very top shelf chardonnay) are under screwcap, there are a few other top wines still under cork (often artisanal estates), and a few very cheap ones as well. Companies are apparently catering for the ignorant at the bottom and the ultra-conservative at the top with cork. I suspect the top$ wines will change to screwcap before the last of the cheapies.

With reds, it's only in the very last few years that the bottom end has changed to screwcaps in a big way. I think companies aimed their first screwcapped red releases at the knowledgable collector, those who understood and abhored cork taint. A couple of big names went early - Cullen & Moss Wood among the $100 cabernets who made screwcaps available quickly - and the rest have followed. Of course, Grosset was driving screwcaps right from the start, initially with his rieslings and then his $50 red blend. It all appears slower than it happens because of the vintage lag with reds that you don't see with whites. The more conservative makers have waited longest, concerned that wines won't age in the same way. Some makers have offered the choice to mail-list buyers (Giaconda was one) and found that requested seals came in at 50/50. (As I think Penfolds found with the en-primeur offering of the 2004 Special Bins - which will weigh in around A$450 each, I believe.)

Don't know whether d'Arenberg will stick with Zork or swap/keep with the screwcaps - I suspect the latter. The novelty of the Zork 'pop' probably appeals to so few that it's just not worth the expense of a whole bottling line. Perhaps it will be seen in years to come as a quaint novelty.

The 'image' thing disappeared very quickly, despite the Tim Mc's of this world - I often used to ask retailers back in 03/04 whether customers ever expressed a problem with screwcaps. No-one ever did. Most places found that screwcap wines sold out faster than cork, where the same wine was offered under the two closures. It's become history now, really. The only lingering issue seems to be ensuring that winemakers get their sulphuring right before bottling lest they encourage reduction. No big deal. Since when has technology ever stood still in the winery?

cheers,
Graeme

[True. But when it's your one and only bottle of rare and old wine that you spent a fortune for at auction, it's more than just a mild irritation.

-Paul W.

No doubt.


But that would be the chance you take at any auction for any product. Right?

I disagree.

Most products that one buys at auction can be appraised for their quality on the spot, before the bidding. With fine wine under a cork closure, whether bought at retail or at auction, you never know whether the bottle you're buying is that 1 out of 100 that's been ruined by TCA.

A 1% defect rate is horrendously bad for a consumer product. Imagine if a major tire manufacturer made tires where 1 out of 100 went flat the day after they were bought, and there was no way for the seller or buyer to know ahead of time whether a tire was one of the unlucky 1%. There is no way such a situation would be tolerated.

-Paul W.

Interesting, Graeme! Do you think there is any effect on the order of adoption due to the cost of having to re-tool the bottling line?

[James Roscoe]

A 1% defect rate is horrendously bad for a consumer product. Imagine if a major tire manufacturer made tires where 1 out of 100 went flat the day after they were bought, and there was no way for the seller or buyer to know ahead of time whether a tire was one of the unlucky 1%. There is no way such a situation would be tolerated.

-Paul W.

Paul if I remember correctly didn't Ford's tests of the Pinto or one of it's '70's vehicles predict a failure rate in the vehicle that would lead to a certain number of deaths? Didn't Ford even set aside money to pay for these unfortunate victims? I believe the shit hit the fan when one of the plaintiffs' lawyers got the memo in discovery. Your analogy makes the same point on a slightly less serious plane. Just some food for thought.

Yes…… but if the old acquaintance is a friend of Isaac (the “wine geek” from Oregon, whom I consider a wise and knowledgeable wine person) this so called acquaintance, even though he himself has no interest in wine, just by association is a slightly above average wine consumer.

Merely an acquaintance of mine, but a pretty close friend of one of my older brothers. And yes, he is an above average wine consumer in that he buys both more expensive and better wines than the average, but not in the sense that he actually consumes them! Charlie is strictly a beer drinker, from all reports.

[True. But when it's your one and only bottle of rare and old wine that you spent a fortune for at auction, it's more than just a mild irritation.

-Paul W.

No doubt.


But that would be the chance you take at any auction for any product. Right?

I disagree.

Most products that one buys at auction can be appraised for their quality on the spot, before the bidding. With fine wine under a cork closure, whether bought at retail or at auction, you never know whether the bottle you're buying is that 1 out of 100 that's been ruined by TCA.

Fair enough.

I will, however, suggest to you that one can never know if that bovine, thouroughbred, painting or what-have-you has a fatal flaw underneath the surface, too.

I live in an agriculturally intense area of California, and I can tell you of numerous instances wherein an animal was bought at an auction then died shortly thereafter or couldn't produce offspring, etc.


All I'm saying is there are no 100% guarantees no matter what the item being bid for is.

A 1% defect rate is horrendously bad for a consumer product. Imagine if a major tire manufacturer made tires where 1 out of 100 went flat the day after they were bought, and there was no way for the seller or buyer to know ahead of time whether a tire was one of the unlucky 1%. There is no way such a situation would be tolerated.

Well, I will have to disagree with you here, Paul.

Firstly, there are no 100% flawless products to be found on this or any other planet and 1% is phenomal given the inherent falablity of man made products.

Additionally, it would be a 1% failure rate if the tire company only makes 100 tires a year....I'm guessing the likelihood of that frequent an occurance of failure is somewaht exaggerated. A "1 out of 100 tires" would be more like 20-30% failure rate for an average tire company. Not the same.

Secondly, a tire is not a consumable item, it is a car part....we don't eat them Besides, something as serious as bodily injury or death has not, at least to my knowledge, ever occured with TCA, but I get your point: It would not be a good thing.

Again, there are no 100% guarantees on anything we buy.