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David Glasser

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Re: Best wine value of my life

by David Glasser » Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:05 pm

The "regular" Segries is only $10. The Clos de l'Hermitage is twice that, but still in bargain territory. Would be curious to hear impressions on both of these.
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David M. Bueker

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Re: Best wine value of my life

by David M. Bueker » Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:11 pm

I'll have note on the Clos de l'Hermitage in the near future.
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Lou Kessler

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Re: Best wine value of my life

by Lou Kessler » Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:06 pm

Rahsaan wrote:
Bob Hower wrote:The notorious banana yeast is old news, over a decade old, short lived, long gone...


Interesting how long these stigmas stick around. Sometimes people still mention the anti-freeze thing whenever I tell them that I like Austrian wine.

When you release wine that actually poisons and kills people it should take a long time for the stigma to go away. :roll:
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Re: Best wine value of my life

by David M. Bueker » Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:50 pm

Ok I am not familiar with the poisoning Lou. What are you talking about?
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Lou Kessler

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Re: Best wine value of my life

by Lou Kessler » Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:57 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:Ok I am not familiar with the poisoning Lou. What are you talking about?

A few vintners used a "glycol" derivative to thicken in some of their dessert wines. Someone else will remember more in detail; But the additive is found in the anti freeze you would put into your radiator in the winter.
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Re: Best wine value of my life

by David M. Bueker » Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:06 pm

Ah - you were referring to the Austrian scandal, not something with Beaujolais.

In the case of the Austrian scandal I know quite a lot & the poisonings/deaths are urban legend.
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Lou Kessler

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Re: Best wine value of my life

by Lou Kessler » Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:14 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:Ah - you were referring to the Austrian scandal, not something with Beaujolais.

In the case of the Austrian scandal I know quite a lot & the poisonings/deaths are urban legend.

Yes, but unfortunately not all of it was Urban Legend. Killed Ausrrian wine sales in this country for many years. It was limited but sadly those kind of things reflect on an industry as a whole.
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David Glasser

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Re: Best wine value of my life

by David Glasser » Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:15 pm

The diethylene glycol additions did not result in any poisonings, but there was quite a scandal. This apparently was a significant stimulus for reform in the Austrian wine industry. From Wikipedia:

A run of favourable years in the early 1980s saw massive yields of wines that were light, dilute and acidic, that nobody wanted. Wine brokers discovered that these wines could be made saleable by the addition of a little diethylene glycol, more commonly found in antifreeze, which imparted sweetness and body to the wine.[5] The adulteration was difficult to detect chemically - the 'antifreeze scandal' broke when one of them tried to claim for the cost of the chemical on his tax return.[6] Although the amounts of glycol were less dangerous than the alcohol in the wine, and only a few middlemen were involved, exports collapsed and some countries banned Austrian wine altogether. The antifreeze jokes persist, but in fact the scandal was the saviour of the industry in Austria. Strict new regulations restricted yields among other things, producers moved towards more red wine and a dry style of white wine that was what the 1990s market would demand, and the middlemen went bust forcing producers to sell direct and encouraging the expression of local terroir.[7] Perhaps most importantly, there was a massive change in the culture of wine production in Austria towards an emphasis on quality, as opposed to the low standards that permitted the scandal to happen in the first place.
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Re: Best wine value of my life

by David M. Bueker » Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:00 am

That was my point - there were no poisonings/people killed.

What it did to the Austrian wine industry is another matter, but given the current state of Austrian wine I think we can say that they heeded the wake-up call.
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Robin Garr

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Re: Best wine value of my life

by Robin Garr » Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:12 am

Bob Hower wrote:To say the Duboeuf's wines are "usually horrible" or to say that "he has done more to destroy the Beaujolais name than anyone" is both unfair and inaccurate. I strongly urge all of you Beaujolais lovers to read Rudolph Chelminski's wonderful book "I'll Drink to That" to get a fuller picture of Duboeuf. ...

Agreed, Bob. Dubeouf dropped the "banana" yeast years ago. Chelminski's book prompted a new look at Duboeuf for me, too. J.P. Brun may still be more to my personal taste in Beaujolais, but I no longer knee-jerk against Duboeuf, particularly his Crus.

Here's my pre-publication review of the galleys of "I'll Drink to That" ...
http://www.wineloverspage.com/wineadvis ... 070611.php
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Bob Hower

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Re: Best wine value of my life

by Bob Hower » Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:49 pm

An excellent write up Robin. And as you imply, his book about Bernard Loiseau -"The Perfectionist" - is a compelling and informative read as well.
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Re: Best wine value of my life

by Mark Lipton » Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:35 pm

Rahsaan wrote:
Bob Hower wrote:The notorious banana yeast is old news, over a decade old, short lived, long gone...


Interesting how long these stigmas stick around. Sometimes people still mention the anti-freeze thing whenever I tell them that I like Austrian wine.


...which is not only inaccurate but downright wrong since antifreeze (ethylene glycol) was never added to an Austrian wine; instead, it was triethylene glycol that was used as an adulterant. Ironically, triethylene glycol is not only less toxic than ethylene glycol (17 vs. 1.4 g/kg LD50) but also less toxic than alcohol itself (17 vs. 7 g/kg), making the whole scare something of an hysterical reaction.

Mark Lipton
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Oswaldo Costa

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Re: Best wine value of my life

by Oswaldo Costa » Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:55 pm

Mark Lipton wrote:...which is not only inaccurate but downright wrong since antifreeze (ethylene glycol) was never added to an Austrian wine; instead, it was triethylene glycol that was used as an adulterant. Ironically, triethylene glycol is not only less toxic than ethylene glycol (17 vs. 1.4 g/kg LD50) but also less toxic than alcohol itself (17 vs. 7 g/kg), making the whole scare something of an hysterical reaction.

Mark Lipton


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Lou Kessler

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Re: Best wine value of my life

by Lou Kessler » Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:26 pm

I apologize for my post that contained inaccurate info. At the time of the scandal I had never even seen a bottle of Austrian wine anywhere in CA. We only knew what we read in the papers and I'm sure the info was greatly exaggerated. We in CA just figured it were the denizens of the east coast who drank Austrian wine. Somebody must have been drinking it :?: :roll:
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