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Neil Courtney

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Re: Screwcaps give faultless performance

by Neil Courtney » Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:53 pm

Bob, why single out Tim for this comment? It applies to several others as well. Let us all move on to greener pastures.
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Bob Parsons Alberta

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Re: Screwcaps give faultless performance

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:59 pm

OK so lets do it!!
BTW Neil, have had a bad computer day here today. Did you see my post on "Friends and Fun"? I struggled with the previous setup, now IE and I have lost bookmarks and my screen is set up all different. How do I expand the margins upwards?

Thanks Bob P
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Re: Screwcaps give faultless performance

by Sam Platt » Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:11 pm

Neil Courtney wrote:Bob, why single out Tim for this comment? It applies to several others as well. Let us all move on to greener pastures.


Neil, We need to find out who started this inflammatory thread and hold him, or her accountable... Oops!... Never mind. :wink:
Sam

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Bob Ross

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Re: Screwcaps give faultless performance

by Bob Ross » Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:51 am

Hi Tim,

A couple of thoughts from an old lawyer who lived with the motto "To Teach, To Do, To Protect." I know you are a teacher, but perhaps I can make a few points of value. If not, ignore me.

1. If you quote folks, it's courteous to indicate deletions, not necessary, but it's really easy to quote out of context and change someone's meaning.

2. Your quote about the general meaning of "troll" is quite accurate, but in the WLDG culture, we use the word to mean a thread, not a person.

3. As I mentioned in my post, I am satisfied that everyone except you has used the word in the sense of a thread, not a person, in this discussion of screwcaps.

4. If you have a problem with Hoke and how he is treating you, deal with Hoke using the email or pm features of Robin's site. There's not reason to involve the rest of us in personality conflicts with individual posters.

5. As others have mentioned, you've made your commitment, your love even, of cork as the best closure for wine bottles perfectly clear. You are entitled to your opinion, but frankly it's a little boring to read it expressed over and over again.

Tim, you have started a number of really interesting threads on other subjects. There is one other cultural point that is worth mentioning: if someone starts a thread, there is an implied obligation to follow the thread and respond to the people who pick up the ball and contribute.

One example:

You started an excellent thread about pasta sauce. You started another about walnuts.

A number of people contributed to both threads. In the WLDG/FLDG culture, you, Tim Mc, have an obligation to nuture that thread, respond to suggestions, recipes, etc., keep it alive and vibrant. One person wrote years ago that it was the initial poster's obligation to "manage" the thread, and if you read the board carefully you will see that most of us try to do so within the limits of our ability.

From my perspective:

You did a C+ job with the walnuts thread.

You did a F job with the pasta sauce thread.

Instead of contributing to your own threads in a nuturing way, or contributing to the threads of other people in a constuctive way, you seem to prefer to call folks names or to pound the "cork is best, cork will reign forever" (or at least 20 years) theme. That's an F in the deportment category in my book.

Come on, Tim, contribute to the Group. It's much more fun. You might even begin to treasure Hoke as the fascinating person he really is.

I'm sure that's what you do professionally as a teacher. The rest of us deserve no less.

Regards, Bob
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Clinton Macsherry

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Re: Screwcaps give faultless performance

by Clinton Macsherry » Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:54 am

Bob Ross wrote:You might even begin to treasure Hoke as the fascinating person he really is.


I am, quite suddenly, stricken with grave concern about the drinking water in Franklin Lakes.
FEAR THE TURTLE ! ! !
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Re: Screwcaps give faultless performance

by Sam Platt » Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:14 am

Bob Ross wrote:You might even begin to treasure Hoke as the fascinating person he really is.


Hoke who? :wink:
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Re: Screwcaps give faultless performance

by Bob Ross » Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:54 am

"water in Franklin Lakes"

Fair point, Clinton -- I wonder if someone put alcohol in my wine last night! :-)

"Hoke, who?"

Now that you mention it, Sam, darned if I know.

Regards, Bob
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Re: Screwcaps give faultless performance

by Hoke » Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:15 pm

Bob Ross wrote:"water in Franklin Lakes"

Fair point, Clinton -- I wonder if someone put alcohol in my wine last night! :-)

"Hoke, who?"

Now that you mention it, Sam, darned if I know.

Regards, Bob


Bob, if you and Sam ever figure it out, would you please let me know too?

FYI, I opened yet another screwcapped bottle of wine last night for my in-laws. They loved it (both the wine and the screwcap).
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Sue Courtney

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Re: Screwcaps give faultless performance

by Sue Courtney » Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:00 pm

Sam Platt wrote:
Neil, We need to find out who started this inflammatory thread and hold him, or her accountable... Oops!... Never mind. :wink:


I stand accountable. Put me in front of the firing squad at dawn. Just make sure the guns are loaded with Blancs.

BTW Neil has gone skiing for the weekend. Faced with the choice of two chardonnays out of our 'drinking box', he took the silver medal winning wine with the screwcap rather than the gold medal winning wine with the cork. Why? Read the opening statement to this thread again. :P

Cheers,
Sue
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Re: Screwcaps give faultless performance

by Thomas » Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:06 pm

Sue Courtney wrote:
Sam Platt wrote:
Neil, We need to find out who started this inflammatory thread and hold him, or her accountable... Oops!... Never mind. :wink:


I stand accountable. Put me in front of the firing squad at dawn. Just make sure the guns are loaded with Blancs.

BTW Neil has gone skiing for the weekend. Faced with the choice of two chardonnays out of our 'drinking box', he took the silver medal winning wine with the screwcap rather than the gold medal winning wine with the cork. Why? Read the opening statement to this thread again. :P

Cheers,
Sue


Probably would have been better to have taken the skis...
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Re: Screwcaps give faultless performance

by Sue Courtney » Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:17 pm

Thomas wrote:
Sue Courtney wrote:
Sam Platt wrote:
Neil, We need to find out who started this inflammatory thread and hold him, or her accountable... Oops!... Never mind. :wink:


I stand accountable. Put me in front of the firing squad at dawn. Just make sure the guns are loaded with Blancs.

BTW Neil has gone skiing for the weekend. Faced with the choice of two chardonnays out of our 'drinking box', he took the silver medal winning wine with the screwcap rather than the gold medal winning wine with the cork. Why? Read the opening statement to this thread again. :P

Cheers,
Sue


Probably would have been better to have taken the skis...


Yeh, yeh - he took those too. :roll:
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TimMc

Re: Screwcaps give faultless performance

by TimMc » Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:39 pm

Bob Ross wrote:Hi Tim,

A couple of thoughts from an old lawyer who lived with the motto "To Teach, To Do, To Protect." I know you are a teacher, but perhaps I can make a few points of value. If not, ignore me.

1. If you quote folks, it's courteous to indicate deletions, not necessary, but it's really easy to quote out of context and change someone's meaning.

2. Your quote about the general meaning of "troll" is quite accurate, but in the WLDG culture, we use the word to mean a thread, not a person.

3. As I mentioned in my post, I am satisfied that everyone except you has used the word in the sense of a thread, not a person, in this discussion of screwcaps.

4. If you have a problem with Hoke and how he is treating you, deal with Hoke using the email or pm features of Robin's site. There's not reason to involve the rest of us in personality conflicts with individual posters.

5. As others have mentioned, you've made your commitment, your love even, of cork as the best closure for wine bottles perfectly clear. You are entitled to your opinion, but frankly it's a little boring to read it expressed over and over again.

Tim, you have started a number of really interesting threads on other subjects. There is one other cultural point that is worth mentioning: if someone starts a thread, there is an implied obligation to follow the thread and respond to the people who pick up the ball and contribute.

One example:

You started an excellent thread about pasta sauce. You started another about walnuts.

A number of people contributed to both threads. In the WLDG/FLDG culture, you, Tim Mc, have an obligation to nuture that thread, respond to suggestions, recipes, etc., keep it alive and vibrant. One person wrote years ago that it was the initial poster's obligation to "manage" the thread, and if you read the board carefully you will see that most of us try to do so within the limits of our ability.

From my perspective:

You did a C+ job with the walnuts thread.

You did a F job with the pasta sauce thread.

Instead of contributing to your own threads in a nuturing way, or contributing to the threads of other people in a constuctive way, you seem to prefer to call folks names or to pound the "cork is best, cork will reign forever" (or at least 20 years) theme. That's an F in the deportment category in my book.

Come on, Tim, contribute to the Group. It's much more fun. You might even begin to treasure Hoke as the fascinating person he really is.

I'm sure that's what you do professionally as a teacher. The rest of us deserve no less.

Regards, Bob


OK, Bob...I'll play.

1. A troll is a person, not a thread. No BBS on the Planet views this term any other way.

2. Any threads I start that don't go are not my responsiblity....somebody has to care enough to respond. If nobody does, oh friggin' well. I move on.

3. I am not resigning because of a childish disagreement over cork...I am sick to death of being labled a troll simply upon that disagreement. I have been treated like an ignoramous on this BBS and in short, it is just plain bullshit.

4. Boring? Geez, Bob...how "boring" is it to read thread after endless post about the glorious screrw cap, eh? I could fill a library with all of the posts relative to that. Yet....one person, me...I'm the bad guy on this one? Give me a break.

5. Hoke has some serious issues with working and playing well with others. Not my fault. Nuff said?

6. I have plenty of "word sense", Bob. The problem begins when all the regulars on this BBS start feeling their oats and come at me with every demeaning insult they can muster simply because they were here before I was. That's crap, Bob. They [you] are justifying their cyber rudeness by virtue of who was here first.

7. Deletions? OMG. If I had a nickle for every deletion one of my detractors posted regarding my comments....I could die a rich man. You simply cannot be serious, Bob

8. A couple words from a teacher, OK? Go. Do. Be...then Teach.

9. Quote folks...? I quote like I do on any BBS: I qoute the words I am referring to...just like you do.

10. Quiting? Hm. Seems to me that unless you people are willing to accept me as a person with high morals and intelligent value...we are, in fact, done here.


Mores the pity....but who here gives a rip anyway, eh?



Happy trails.
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Re: Screwcaps give faultless performance

by Robin Garr » Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:01 pm

TimMc wrote:Happy trails.


Tim, your cranky response to Bob's gentle, thoughtful and kind effort at constructive criticism surprises and disappoints me.

I'm inclined to put you on Time Out from the forum for a few days while you think about this. If you come around to the point where you feel that maybe at least a few of Bob's points might be valid, well-intended, and even perhaps good advice for you, please feel free to approach me privately and I'll consider giving your keys back.
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Re: Screwcaps give faultless performance

by JoePerry » Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:08 am

Robin Garr wrote:
TimMc wrote:Happy trails.


Tim, your cranky response to Bob's gentle, thoughtful and kind effort at constructive criticism surprises and disappoints me.

I'm inclined to put you on Time Out from the forum for a few days while you think about this. If you come around to the point where you feel that maybe at least a few of Bob's points might be valid, well-intended, and even perhaps good advice for you, please feel free to approach me privately and I'll consider giving your keys back.


I'd like to be the first to wish Tim well in his future endeavors with other BBs. :D

Best,
Joe

So long, farewell, auf Wiedersehen, good night.
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Re: Screwcaps give faultless performance

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:02 am

JoePerry wrote:
Robin Garr wrote:
TimMc wrote:Happy trails.


Tim, your cranky response to Bob's gentle, thoughtful and kind effort at constructive criticism surprises and disappoints me.

I'm inclined to put you on Time Out from the forum for a few days while you think about this. If you come around to the point where you feel that maybe at least a few of Bob's points might be valid, well-intended, and even perhaps good advice for you, please feel free to approach me privately and I'll consider giving your keys back.


I'd like to be the first to wish Tim well in his future endeavors with other BBs. :D

Best,
Joe

So long, farewell, auf Wiedersehen, good night.


I agree, come back and talk some wine with us!!
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Sam Platt

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Re: Screwcaps give faultless performance

by Sam Platt » Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:16 am

TimMc wrote:Happy trails.


The words "door", "hit" and "ass" come to mind.
Sam

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Re: Screwcaps give faultless performance

by Glenn Mackles » Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:08 pm

I know I'm new here and probably should not comment but I have been around bulletins boards for a long time. To me, disagreement really isn't so much the issue as the tone of the disagreement. In this thread I stated that I really have come to like the cork ritual and would miss corks. In the tobacco in France thread I stated views that quite a few folks disagreed with. But unless I missed something in neither case was there any problem whatsoever. I think the reason is that when I disagree with others I try very hard express my disagreement in a tone that states that while I would like to discuss the issue further and expresses my views it DOES NOT state or imply that "I'm right and you're wrong." I have been here long enough to witness 2 of these blowups with this poster and I believe that everything could have been fine if only a little more care had been taken to control the tone and show real respect for the opinions of others.

Glenn
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Re: Screwcaps give faultless performance

by Jenise » Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:32 pm

Glenn, you are a gentleman.

And it's always a bit sad that anybody ever feels they have to leave--Tim has made some good contributions--but if he chooses to be the only person here who doesn't the meaning of the word 'troll' as used on this board (and all others I read) and instead interpret it as an attempt to victimize him personally, then perhaps all other issues are moot points. That's too bad.
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
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Re: Screwcaps give faultless performance

by David M. Bueker » Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:40 pm

All the romance of cork went poof for me the other night when I spilled red Burg on myself because a cork was a pain to extract.
There behind the glass lies a real blade of grass. Be careful as you pass. Move along. Move along.
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Re: Screwcaps give faultless performance

by Hoke » Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:08 pm

Interesting timing. The San Francisco Chronicle came out with their Wine Page today with the feature article on Don Sebastiani & Sons company and their approach to irreverant wine marketing, citing the screwcap and particularly the Zork.

Bueker: Face it, you're a klutz. Can't blame EVERYTHING on a cork! :D
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Thomas

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Re: Screwcaps give faultless performance

by Thomas » Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:40 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:All the romance of cork went poof for me the other night when I spilled red Burg on myself because a cork was a pain to extract.


Next time, just bang the neck of the bottle on the edge of your dishwasher top. Stand back just a little though...
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Re: Screwcaps give faultless performance

by Hoke » Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:55 pm

Thomas:

He could go to a medical supply store and buy a really big hypodermic syringe and needle, then "decant" a glass at a time right through the cork.

On the other hand, that gives us the picture of Bueker hunched over a bottle with a very large needle.........
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Sue Courtney

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Re: Screwcaps give faultless performance

by Sue Courtney » Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:02 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:All the romance of cork went poof for me the other night when I spilled red Burg on myself because a cork was a pain to extract.


Ah- you've hit on the one thing wrong with a DIAM- if you ever get to try one. It's not a pain to extract, but it is sure hard to get back into the bottle and if you are not careful, poof the contents of the bottle will be all over the table. You need two hands, one to hold the bottle and the other to force the DIAM back in.
One of NZ's first DIAM stalwarts is now using Zork on one of his early drinking lines. Zorks are great to use as bottle stoppers, BTW.
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Bob Ross

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Re: Screwcaps give faultless performance

by Bob Ross » Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:05 pm

"I know I'm new here and probably should not comment but I have been around bulletins boards for a long time."

Glenn, thanks for chiming in -- I agree with every thing you write, except that everyone should feel free to comment, newcomers or OFs like myself.

It's always hard to see yourself as others see you, but it is important that we all try to treat everyone, as you say, with a little more care "to control the tone and show real respect for the opinions of others."

Thanks for expressing your opinion. Regards, Bob
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