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Hoke

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Wine Geek Teaser Question....

by Hoke » Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:39 pm

Okay, here's a wine geek teaser question---but there are rules: it's cheating if you have to look it up first, but wild ass guesses are fine. So no slyly looking it up, then answering as if you knew it all along. You're on the honor system here. (And that means you too, Roscoe.) :D

So the Wine Geek Question of the Day:

Ruby Cabernet was developed as a cross and was produced extensively for a while in California, although it has now fallen out of favor.

Ruby Cabernet is a cross of Cabernet Sauvignon and what other grape variety?

BONUS for Supergeeks: One of California's most renowned wineries prominently features an old vine version of this other grape variety in one of its legndary releases. Name that winery.
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Re: Wine Geek Teaser Question....

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:54 pm

I would guess Gamay.

Used to see it around here.....scratching head?
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Re: Wine Geek Teaser Question....

by Hoke » Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:55 pm

Bob Parsons Alberta wrote:I would guess Gamay.

Used to see it around here.....scratching head?


And you would be wrong, Bob. Try again.
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Re: Wine Geek Teaser Question....

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:58 pm

Blimey, there goes my reputation :lol:


I have to wonder if there was ever a sparkling one? If so, Pinot Noir!!!
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Re: Wine Geek Teaser Question....

by David M. Bueker » Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:01 pm

Pretty sure it's Carignan.

So Hoke - Cabernet Dorsa is a cross of Cabernet Sauvigon and what? :wink:
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Re: Wine Geek Teaser Question....

by Hoke » Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:22 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:Pretty sure it's Carignan.

So Hoke - Cabernet Dorsa is a cross of Cabernet Sauvigon and what? :wink:


Yep, David is correct: it's Carignan (or Carignane, as it is often rendered in California).

Trivia: Carignane was once upon a time the number three variety in California, albeit mostly used for the ubiquitous "dago red". There are still patches of old vine carignane vineyards all over California, including the one used for that wine by the legendary California winery mentioned.

Speaking of which, David...wanta take a stab at the winery?

And re Cabernet Dorsa--- I confess I haven't the slightest idea on that one.
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Re: Wine Geek Teaser Question....

by Steve Edmunds » Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:33 pm

Ridge?
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Re: Wine Geek Teaser Question....

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:37 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabernet_Dorsa

Carignan eh. Good one. Oh, I have found a reference to a non-alcoholic sparkling Ruby Cabernet.
Last edited by Bob Parsons Alberta on Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wine Geek Teaser Question....

by Hoke » Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:40 pm

Steve Edmunds wrote:Ridge?


Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding!
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OK...MrSmartyPants

by TomHill » Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:54 pm

Hoke wrote:Okay, here's a wine geek teaser question---but there are rules: it's cheating if you have to look it up first, but wild ass guesses are fine. So no slyly looking it up, then answering as if you knew it all along. You're on the honor system here. (And that means you too, Roscoe.) :D

So the Wine Geek Question of the Day:

Ruby Cabernet was developed as a cross and was produced extensively for a while in California, although it has now fallen out of favor.

Ruby Cabernet is a cross of Cabernet Sauvignon and what other grape variety?

BONUS for Supergeeks: One of California's most renowned wineries prominently features an old vine version of this other grape variety in one of its legendary releases. Name that winery.


WTF does that mean, Hoke??? One of its legendary releases?? They've been releasing old-vine Carignan for yrs..not just one "legendary" (whatever the heck that means) release!! This is
either a trick question or very ineptly worded.

OK....MrSmartyPants......what two famous wineries released RubyCabernets that were of the stature of their primo wines???
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Re: Wine Geek Teaser Question....

by Hoke » Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:21 pm

Woo. Did you wear your crankypants today, or did your wife put heavy starch in your long johns again?

Steve knew what I meant sufficiently to answer correctly. And let's not talk about phraseology, else we'll discuss your eptness.

Now as to your clumsily phrased question...hmmm, without cheating I'd think maybe the original Inglenook Estate, way back when you were only middle-aged, might have done some credible Ruby, my dear. Don't know who the other might be offhand.

I do recall that Amerine used to have high hopes for RC as a stand-alone. I seldom did much for me.
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Re: Wine Geek Teaser Question....

by Steve Edmunds » Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:15 pm

one of them was Ridge. didn't Paul Masson do one, too?
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Re: Wine Geek Teaser Question....

by David M. Bueker » Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:24 pm

I have had one from Gallo and another from Dickerson Vineyards.
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Re: Wine Geek Teaser Question....

by Hoke » Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:37 pm

Had several RCs in Texas...it was a comer grape there, reccoed by the experts (who, it turned out, were talking though their hats) for widespread planting in the area. Again, was never really impressed; usually pleasant enough but just that.
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Bingo.....

by TomHill » Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:04 am

David M. Bueker wrote:I have had one from Gallo and another from Dickerson Vineyards.

Bingo...we have a winner here. Steve seems to answer "Ridge" to every wine question. Sometimes
even a blind squirrel finds a nut. A clock that's not running is right two times a day. So..yes indeed..it was Ridge that made a mighty fine RubyCabernet.
And DrDickerson, a SanFrancisco physician and member of the Vintner's Club, planted RubyCabernet. His vnyd became
famous when Ravenswood made (eucalyptus-scented) Zin from his vnyd. He later went on to make Zin from his own vnyd
plus the RubyCabernet..which also had a eucalyptus scent as well. Maybe the better of the two.
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Re: Wine Geek Teaser Question....

by Steve Edmunds » Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:07 am

actually, what Paul Masson made that was a famous cross was Emerald Riesling (Riesling X Semiilon if I remember right). But I think there was another Ruby Cabernet from a prominent winery in the early 70s. Wasn't there?
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Re: Wine Geek Teaser Question....

by Peter May » Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:38 am

I'd have guessed Grenache.

I knew Dr Olmo and thought 1940's.

Didn't about Ridge and not clear from above exchange whether they still make a varietal Carignan but there wasn't one listed at their tasting room when I visited in November.

The Mazzoni Home Ranch 2008 (ATP $30) had 49% Carignan (50% Zin, 1% P Sirah).

I've not had many varietal Ruby Cabs and those I have had have been from large volume producers, pleasant enough. I'd like to taste one made with dedication.

Bruce Jack (Flagstone, S Af) made a one off bottling but it sold out so quickly I never got hold of it.

Some SAf vineyards grow Ruby C on wind exposed sites where they can't grow other varieties and I know of a top winery that does so and uses the wine from it for topping barriques... part of the legal up to 15% unstated.
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Re: Wine Geek Teaser Question....

by Brian Gilp » Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:15 am

Peter May wrote:
Didn't about Ridge and not clear from above exchange whether they still make a varietal Carignan but there wasn't one listed at their tasting room when I visited in November.


Info on the Ridge Carignane. http://www.ridgewine.com/Wines/Rhones/Carignane
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Re: Wine Geek Teaser Question....

by Victorwine » Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:44 pm

As far as California Crush Reports go (in 2010) Ruby Cabernet did rank in the top ten red wine grape category (maybe number 7) with over 82 thousand tons crushed.

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Re: Wine Geek Teaser Question....

by Peter May » Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:38 pm

Brian Gilp wrote:Info on the Ridge Carignane. http://www.ridgewine.com/Wines/Rhones/Carignane


Thanks Brian, unfortunately they didn't have it when I was there, otherwise I'd have bought one.

I rather like Carignan - had (a French one) night before last. There's an attractive spiciness to the finish.

Many year sago, when learning about wine, this was one of the many varieties dismissed as very 'ordinary', but I've tasted some pleasant examples recently.
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Re: Bingo.....

by Jenise » Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:35 pm

TomHill wrote:And DrDickerson, a SanFrancisco physician and member of the Vintner's Club, planted RubyCabernet. His vnyd became
famous when Ravenswood made (eucalyptus-scented) Zin from his vnyd.


Ravenswood also bottled at Ruby Cabernet, at least one vintage; it's the only Ruby Cabernet I've ever had.
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Re: Wine Geek Teaser Question....

by Clint Hall » Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:52 pm

Nathan Chroman, who wrote a wine column for the Los Angeles Times in I believe the 1960s and 1970s, published a book in 1973 called "The Treasury of American Wines," and in it are essays on the better known American wineries of the day. At the beginning of each such essay he listed varietal wines and generic wines that he would recommend drinking, and he was selective as some of the wineries didn't rate any recommended wines at all. The wines he did recommend were rated from one to four stars. For only three wineries did he recommend Ruby Cabernet. These were

Davis Bynum -- two stars

Ridge -- two stars

San Martin -- three stars
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Re: Wine Geek Teaser Question....

by Ken Schechet » Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:08 am

Hoke is correct about Texas. I saw some examples of Ruby Cabernet in the Texas Hill Country between Austin and San Antonio within the last few years. One of them was from the Fredericksburg Winery as I recall. They did not make a lasting impression and I really hardly remember them but I have a vague memory of decent acidity and a little sweetness.
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