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Hungarian winemaker kills thief with poisoned wine

by Robin Garr » Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:23 pm

Well, this is ugly ... what do you think about the ethics (and legality) of this winery-defense strategy, covered in The Daily News Fetch on Lewis Perdue's Drinks Business?

Winemaker kills thief with poisoned wine
8th November, 2013 by Rupert Millar

A Hungarian winemaker has been sent to prison for murder after he poisoned wine with antifreeze to stop a thief.

According to Agence France Presse, the producer from Vacszentlaszlo, 50km east of Budapest, had been plagued by a spate of thefts and was determined to teach the thief, or thieves, “a lesson”.

He therefore laced some bottles with antifreeze and left them where they were likely to be taken.

On 24 October, a 30-year old man – who has not so far been identified as an employee of the winery – stole several poisoned bottles and shared them with friends.

According to police in the Pest department, he was hospitalised a few days later showing signs of poisoning and was dead by 1 November – though the exact cause of his death has not been firmly established.

Click for the full story:
http://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2013/1 ... oned-wine/
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TomHill

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Hmmm...

by TomHill » Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:33 pm

Robin Garr wrote:Well, this is ugly ... what do you think about the ethics (and legality) of this winery-defense strategy, covered in The Daily News Fetch on Lewis Perdue's Drinks Business?
Winemaker kills thief with poisoned wine
8th November, 2013 by Rupert Millar
A Hungarian winemaker has been sent to prison for murder after he poisoned wine with antifreeze to stop a thief.
According to Agence France Presse, the producer from Vacszentlaszlo, 50km east of Budapest, had been plagued by a spate of thefts and was determined to teach the thief, or thieves, “a lesson”.
He therefore laced some bottles with antifreeze and left them where they were likely to be taken.
On 24 October, a 30-year old man – who has not so far been identified as an employee of the winery – stole several poisoned bottles and shared them with friends.
According to police in the Pest department, he was hospitalised a few days later showing signs of poisoning and was dead by 1 November – though the exact cause of his death has not been firmly established.
Click for the full story:
http://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2013/1 ... oned-wine/


Hmmm...sounds like he got is que from the Austrian winemakers.
He should have done it the good/ole American way....waited in the shadows until the thief showed up and then
blew him away w/ an AK-47.
If it killed him, but not his drinking buddies..maybe there was some other cause.
Tom
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Re: Hungarian winemaker kills thief with poisoned wine

by Hoke » Fri Nov 08, 2013 5:24 pm

Don't know about the ethics/morality of this case. I have, however, had some Hungarian wines back in the day that I thought were poisoned. Ask Tom Hill: he followed them from the very start.

My favorite quote on this is from George McDonald Fraser in the Flashman series of comical-historical novels, where General Flashman, heroic scoundrel, was swilling some wine and he said (paraphrased from memory), "These Hungarians could make decent wines if they didn't feel they had to run it through a horse first." :lol:

And for the Sensitive and Humourless: yes, I know there are good Hungarian wines out there, and I've had some.
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Re: Hungarian winemaker kills thief with poisoned wine

by Mark Lipton » Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:36 pm

All your Tokaji Aszu are belong to us, Hoke. Pony up, horse-boy! :P

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Re: Hungarian winemaker kills thief with poisoned wine

by Thomas » Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:40 pm

Bull's Blood to this thread!
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Re: Hungarian winemaker kills thief with poisoned wine

by Hoke » Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:46 pm

Mark Lipton wrote:All your Tokaji Aszu are belong to us, Hoke. Pony up, horse-boy! :P

Mark "Egri Bikaver" Lipton


Feeling your puttonyos today, huh, Bull Boy?
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Re: Hungarian winemaker kills thief with poisoned wine

by Mark Lipton » Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:40 am

Hoke wrote:
Mark Lipton wrote:All your Tokaji Aszu are belong to us, Hoke. Pony up, horse-boy! :P

Mark "Egri Bikaver" Lipton


Feeling your puttonyos today, huh, Bull Boy?


I have been feeling a little bit hod, now that you mention it.

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Re: Hungarian winemaker kills thief with poisoned wine

by Tom NJ » Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:55 am

Mark Lipton wrote:I have been feeling a little bit hod, now that you mention it.


How long did you let that comment furmint in your mind before posting it?
"He ordered as one to the Menu born...."
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Re: Hungarian winemaker kills thief with poisoned wine

by Robin Garr » Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:04 am

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Re: Hungarian winemaker kills thief with poisoned wine

by Thomas » Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:24 am

Tom NJ wrote:
Mark Lipton wrote:I have been feeling a little bit hod, now that you mention it.


How long did you let that comment furmint in your mind before posting it?


The best of all the groaning puns. I give it an Aszu Eszencia!
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Re: Hungarian winemaker kills thief with poisoned wine

by Howie Hart » Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:34 am

This reminds me of a guy I worked with in a factory about 35-40 years ago. He kept a large (gallon sized) jar of pickles, with his name written in the lid, in a shared refrigerator and noticed they were disappearing faster than he was eating them, so he urinated into the jar and when all the pickles were gone, he let everyone know what he did.
Chico - Hey! This Bottle is empty!
Groucho - That's because it's dry Champagne.
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Re: Hungarian winemaker kills thief with poisoned wine

by Thomas » Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:40 am

Howie Hart wrote:This reminds me of a guy I worked with in a factory about 35-40 years ago. He kept a large (gallon sized) jar of pickles, with his name written in the lid, in a shared refrigerator and noticed they were disappearing faster than he was eating them, so he urinated into the jar and when all the pickles were gone, he let everyone know what he did.


Did he survive the response?
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Re: Hungarian winemaker kills thief with poisoned wine

by Howie Hart » Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:35 am

Thomas wrote:Did he survive the response?
Yes. He was a tough guy, but was fired shortly afterwards for stealing. It was a sandpaper factory and he was allegedly supplying half the body shops in the area with sanding discs and finishing paper.
Chico - Hey! This Bottle is empty!
Groucho - That's because it's dry Champagne.
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Re: Hungarian winemaker kills thief with poisoned wine

by Thomas » Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:29 pm

Howie Hart wrote:
Thomas wrote:Did he survive the response?
Yes. He was a tough guy, but was fired shortly afterwards for stealing. It was a sandpaper factory and he was allegedly supplying half the body shops in the area with sanding discs and finishing paper.


I guess he finally pissed off the right person...or pissed on :lol:
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Re: Hungarian winemaker kills thief with poisoned wine

by Mark Lipton » Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:36 am

Howie Hart wrote:This reminds me of a guy I worked with in a factory about 35-40 years ago. He kept a large (gallon sized) jar of pickles, with his name written in the lid, in a shared refrigerator and noticed they were disappearing faster than he was eating them, so he urinated into the jar and when all the pickles were gone, he let everyone know what he did.


Yeesh. My favorite story in this regard concerned a lab worker in the lab I did my Ph D work in. This guy became really upset if other people used "his" cork rings (used to supply a stable base for roundbottom flasks). These were regarded by everyone else in lab as communal property, so they took some umbrage when he wrote his name in permanent marker on all of "his" rings. The lab responded the next day by labeling every cork ring in lab with his name. I am Spartacus, indeed.

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Re: Hungarian winemaker kills thief with poisoned wine

by Paul Winalski » Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:03 pm

My Chemistry professor during my freshman year in college told us a story along these lines. When she was in grad school she was in charge of the Chemistry department's stockroom. The stockroom had a chronic problem with theft of anhydrous ethanol by undergrad students for use in the punch at frat parties. The problem is that there is water vapor in the ullage, so stealing even a few milliliters from a bottle ruins whatever's left. She finally put a stop to the theft by topping up one of the compromised bottles with ethanol and a small amount of phenolphthalein. She then noted who was out sick the next day, and warned those individuals about the danger of just taking stuff from a chemical stockroom--you never know what it might be contaminated with.

-Paul W.

P.S. - Phenolphthalein, in addition to its use as a pH indicator, is the active ingredient in Ex-Lax and other treatments for constipation.
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Re: Hungarian winemaker kills thief with poisoned wine

by Bill Spohn » Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:51 pm

Mark Lipton wrote:Yeesh. My favorite story in this regard concerned a lab worker in the lab I did my Ph D work in. This guy became really upset if other people used "his" cork rings (used to supply a stable base for roundbottom flasks). These were regarded by everyone else in lab as communal property, so they took some umbrage when he wrote his name in permanent marker on all of "his" rings. The lab responded the next day by labeling every cork ring in lab with his name. I am Spartacus, indeed.

Mark Lipton


That one I like.

Hoke, I am a real fan of Flashman and thanks for that reminder of Fraser's wit. Too bad they never caught on for movies, (barring one indifferent flick with Malcolm McDowell as our hero).

Paul, I did something similar in high school (I was a chemistyry nerd. Not using phenophthalein, but rather methylene blue in some drinks in the lab fridge. Kid that was swiping them thought he was dying (no pun intended) when he started peeing blue.
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Hmmm..

by TomHill » Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:36 pm

Bill Spohn wrote:
Mark Lipton wrote:Yeesh. My favorite story in this regard concerned a lab worker in the lab I did my Ph D work in. This guy became really upset if other people used "his" cork rings (used to supply a stable base for roundbottom flasks). These were regarded by everyone else in lab as communal property, so they took some umbrage when he wrote his name in permanent marker on all of "his" rings. The lab responded the next day by labeling every cork ring in lab with his name. I am Spartacus, indeed.
Mark Lipton

That one I like.
Hoke, I am a real fan of Flashman and thanks for that reminder of Fraser's wit. Too bad they never caught on for movies, (barring one indifferent flick with Malcolm McDowell as our hero).
Paul, I did something similar in high school (I was a chemistyry nerd. Not using phenophthalein, but rather methylene blue in some drinks in the lab fridge. Kid that was swiping them thought he was dying (no pun intended) when he started peeing blue.


Hmmm...I think you scientific types are more ornery and not the stick-in-the-muds that most people figure you out to be!!! :-)
Tom
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Re: Hungarian winemaker kills thief with poisoned wine

by Kevin M » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:03 pm

I wonder if he actually died from the antifreeze. Maybe there's a different formulation overseas.

I've been a paramedic for about 20 years and we're always fascinated at conferences to hear from the poison control docs about the realities of how everyday products affect people. They've told us of people that drink decent amounts of straight antifreeze on a regular basis in an odd attempt at suicide. It typically doesn't kill them, but it does kill some brain cells and their personalities become slower and more lethargic with each dose. Other interesting stuff - drinking household bleach generally gives you a very painful tummy ache but usually isn't fatal. A relatively small amount of adult toothpaste swallowed by a child can be fatal.

Disclaimer; Don't try any of this at home.

When thinking of tasting notes, on occasion I've thought of "hints of antifreeze" but never considered that it may be an ingredient. Then again I pay for all of my wine.
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Re: Hungarian winemaker kills thief with poisoned wine

by Mark Lipton » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:46 pm

Paul Winalski wrote:My Chemistry professor during my freshman year in college told us a story along these lines. When she was in grad school she was in charge of the Chemistry department's stockroom. The stockroom had a chronic problem with theft of anhydrous ethanol by undergrad students for use in the punch at frat parties. The problem is that there is water vapor in the ullage, so stealing even a few milliliters from a bottle ruins whatever's left. She finally put a stop to the theft by topping up one of the compromised bottles with ethanol and a small amount of phenolphthalein. She then noted who was out sick the next day, and warned those individuals about the danger of just taking stuff from a chemical stockroom--you never know what it might be contaminated with.

-Paul W.

P.S. - Phenolphthalein, in addition to its use as a pH indicator, is the active ingredient in Ex-Lax and other treatments for constipation.


Paul,
I'm amazed at the theft of absolute ethanol, as until fairly recently it was made through azeotropic removal of water with benzene, so it was always labeled to indicate the possible presence of residual benzene. I guess even the presence of a known carcinogen isn't enough to deter a determined undergrad. I also once used both phenolphthalein and methylene blue to spike a can of pineapple juice (through the foil seal) to deter a thief in high school. He eventually forgave me. :P

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Re: Hungarian winemaker kills thief with poisoned wine

by Hoke » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:51 pm

I also once used both phenolphthalein and methylene blue to spike a can of pineapple juice (through the foil seal) to deter a thief in high school. He eventually forgave me. :P


Hey, they used that plot line on Boardwalk Empire this season!

The guy died, though. Because freepour.
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Re: Hungarian winemaker kills thief with poisoned wine

by Paul Winalski » Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:06 pm

Mark Lipton wrote:I'm amazed at the theft of absolute ethanol, as until fairly recently it was made through azeotropic removal of water with benzene, so it was always labeled to indicate the possible presence of residual benzene. I guess even the presence of a known carcinogen isn't enough to deter a determined undergrad. I also once used both phenolphthalein and methylene blue to spike a can of pineapple juice (through the foil seal) to deter a thief in high school. He eventually forgave me. :P


The event would have taken place circa 1969-1970. I don't think the dangers of benzene as a carcinogen were appreciated back then.

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Re: Hungarian winemaker kills thief with poisoned wine

by Jenise » Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:35 am

Kevin M wrote:A relatively small amount of adult toothpaste swallowed by a child can be fatal.


What on earth is in "adult tooth paste" that would cause this? I remember trying my father's brand when I was a kid and thinking that could happen (it was very 'hot' to my undeveloped palate), but of course it was only my imagination. :)

Btw, hope you pipe up more often, one post a year is not enough!
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Re: Hungarian winemaker kills thief with poisoned wine

by Rahsaan » Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:01 am

Jenise wrote:
Kevin M wrote:A relatively small amount of adult toothpaste swallowed by a child can be fatal.


What on earth is in "adult tooth paste" that would cause this? I remember trying my father's brand when I was a kid and thinking that could happen (it was very 'hot' to my undeveloped palate), but of course it was only my imagination. :)


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