Open mike: Help me understand Brunello di Montalcino

For long I have agonised about my inability to understand Sangiovese. I have one bottle of Poggio Salvi BdM 1999 which I intend to open soon (maybe even tonight) as I hear it is approachable, though a bit young, now.

Anyone care to join with another approachable but young Brunello - or even with the same wine?

-O-

Dude! I think I get it after all!

[Robin Garr]

Anyone care to join with another approachable but young Brunello - or even with the same wine?

Brunello! I love it ... possibly one of my absolute favorite wines, Chianti cubed ... but it's pricey, and most of them need cellar time.

To help you keep the thread alive, though, here's a TN from last year:

<B>La Magia 1999 Brunello di Montalcino</b> ($51)
This is a dark ruby wine with reddish-violet highlights, a little more toward the youthful blue-violet than the reddish-ruby hues that I tend to associate with Sangiovese in Chianti. Enticing aromas present a subtle mix of black fruit - cherries, berries and plums - with distinct notes of dark chocolate that emerge as the wine opens up in the glass. Flavors are consistent with the nose: black fruit, earth, spice and a whiff of leather, tied up with crisp fresh-fruit acidity. Tannins become evident only in the finish, and they're smooth and well integrated. Well worth long-term cellaring if you have the facilities, but it's already showing very well. U.S. importer: Five Star Importers, Plainview, N.Y. (March 25, 2006)

Bear in mind also that the Rosso di Montalcino IGT can often afford similar pleasure in a more affordable, early-drinking wine.

What is the reason for the costly nature of these wines, e.g. Brunello, Barolo? Is it because of their relative scarcity, demand vs. supply, or does it actually cost more to make them? I doubt very much that the winemakers are going for new barriques ever year or doing things like that which would entail massive yearly layouts of capital. In fact - and although I am only guessing here - wouldn't Brunello, Barbaresco, etc. be some of the "least manipulated" wines of all?

[Robin Garr]

What is the reason for the costly nature of these wines, e.g. Brunello, Barolo? Is it because of their relative scarcity, demand vs. supply, or does it actually cost more to make them? I doubt very much that the winemakers are going for new barriques ever year or doing things like that which would entail massive yearly layouts of capital. In fact - and although I am only guessing here - wouldn't Brunello, Barbaresco, etc. be some of the "least manipulated" wines of all?

Paul, it's probably a little of both. The wines are in limited supply and great demand, and in the free market system, that's why they're costly. Of course, the vineyards are old, and they're treasured pieces of property.

As for "manipulation," that's a tough call, but certainly in Barolo there's a sharp division between the producers who stick with the old ways (Bruno Giacosa) and those who want to play with French barrels and a little Cabernet in the blend. Same's true in Montalcino and, for that matter, all over Europe, between the traditionalists and those who hope to profit by following the Parker-style trail.

Mostly, though, it's supply and demand based on the reasonable observation by consumers that these are great wines with a track record of success.

Fair comments by Robin.
I'll add that Nebbiolo is a very risky grape to grow as well, so an element of that probably finds it's way into the price.

Not sure Sangiovese is quite so difficult or risky.

regards

Ian

Fair comments by Robin.
Not sure Sangiovese is quite so difficult or risky.

regards

Ian

Ian, Sangiovese is not difficult to grow; in fact, quite the opposite. As a variety, it tends to be very prolific. However, Sangiovese grown under conditions that reinforce its tendency to over-produce also makes for insipid wine. Great wines from Sangiovese comes from vineyards where yields are low, because of soil conditions, vine spacing or crop thinning. In the end, you're still making wine from expensive fruit, which would figure into the cost of making wine just as in the case of Nebbiolo. Of course, in the end wine prices have little to do with the price of ingredients and much more to do with supply and demand for the wine.

Mark
Yes, I agree that supply & demand (and by loose implication, quality) are the defining factors.
regards
Ian

Well, my initial excitement about finding a lovable Brunello has somewhat been dampened! How did this turn into a more modern type of wine with a couple hour's decanting?

• 1999 Villa Poggio Salvi Brunello di Montalcino - Italy, Tuscany, Montalcino, Brunello di Montalcino (1/21/2007)
  13,5%abv. Upon opening, the nose was lovely: slightly green/herbal, spicy like sandalwood, but ripely fruity, more red toned than dark. The palate was full bodied, extracted, perhaps a bit more woody than expected, with good structure from both mouthwatering acidity and drying, but ripe, tannins. The whole was bright savoury and the aftertaste was long and fresh. Lovely. With air, I began to feel a little iffy about it: the nose has become more "modern" and dilly - though I don't think this sees barrique. Strange.

Posted from CellarTracker

Otto, have a tasting note handy from the other night, the `01 Castelgiocondo. Will post asap.

WTN: `01 Frescobaldi Brunello di Montalcino "Castelgiocondo".

This wine was tasted as part of a WS Top 100 tasting held last week here in lumberjack country! The wine was decanted 6 hrs, nose had cherry, black fruits, oak, tobacco, plum. On the palate, good acidity, ripe but not sweet black cherry. Tannins do not overpower, needs food for sure. This wine seems to be more accessible than some I tasted in early 90`s.
For many tasters (30), this was the WOTN and I agree eventhough some experienced afficiandos thought more modern in style.

Robin, your's and Bob's sound a bit spoofy? Were they? Who makes really traditional Brunello?

-O-

[Robin Garr]

Robin, your's and Bob's sound a bit spoofy? Were they? Who makes really traditional Brunello?

Otto, the La Magia didn't really strike me as spoofy, and 1999 was a fine vintage. It does see oak, that's part of the region's tradition, but as noted, the oak was well integrated. I thought it was a fine wine. Some Italian producers certainly follow the Parker siren song, but I'm afraid I don't get to drink enough pricey Brunello to be able to cite you a couple of particularly notorious names, other than that I might cynically assume Banfi to be a suspect in spoofing as it's an industrial-size, American-owned producer built as recently as the 1980s. (I visited their winery in 1982 when it was still under construction, and all their neighbors were mad as hell.)

Of Brunellos I've tasted, my impressions are:

Very traditional: Biondi-Santi
Traditional: Scopetone, La Rasina
Middle of the Road: Poggio Antico,Lisini, Caparzo, La Fornace, La Magia
Modern: Banfi, Barbi, Pertimali , Col d'Orcia,Altesino, Castelgiocondo
Ultramodern: Gaja -Pieve di Santa Restituta, Antinori-Pian delle Vigne

These aren't scientifically charted, or based on a lot of research, so if Oliver or another Italian expert says I'm way off base, believe them.

I do find that good Sangiovese does a great job of absorbing oak. Even in forward vintages I think a few years bottle age help a lot.

Thanks for the list. I'm hoping I'll find a few from the list of more traditional producers.

We have Argiano's 2001 available here? I seem to remember they were a spoofulatory producer - was it so?

[James Roscoe]

Thanks for the list. I'm hoping I'll find a few from the list of more traditional producers.

We have Argiano's 2001 available here? I seem to remember they were a spoofulatory producer - was it so?

Spoofy I get. Where does "spoofulatory" come from? Is this a new adjective? How does it differ from "spoofy"? I await enlightenment from on high. I can't wait until the 2007 Websters Dictionary comes out.

Robin, your's and Bob's sound a bit spoofy? Were they? Who makes really traditional Brunello?

Otto, the La Magia didn't really strike me as spoofy, and 1999 was a fine vintage. It does see oak, that's part of the region's tradition, but as noted, the oak was well integrated.

Robin,

I wouldn't say 'oak' (ie at least partly small and new oak) is traditional...it's common these days, but...

[Robin Garr]

I wouldn't say 'oak' (ie at least partly small and new oak) is traditional...it's common these days, but...

Umm, Oliver, we may be approaching the same issue from different directions, like the blind men and the elephant. But I would not say that Brunello "sees no oak." After all, it is in fact traditionally made and spends many months in large barrels, as I'm certain you know. And yes, I know that large barrels don't impart <i>much</i> oak character, but they certainly do shape the wine.

I in turn agree that the "modern" or "Parkerish" producers use small oak and new barriques, but that wasn't what I said.

Robin,

When I read the word 'oak,' particularly in a discussion of whether a wine is spoofulated or not (and whether the oak is integrated or not) I assume the author is referring to new, small barrels. Botte don't have to integrate because they don't add components to the wine, they transfrom those that are there.

Hmm, I don't know if Poggio Salvi would be an easy introduction to Brunello...
Furthermore, there are far more distorting practices than new oak. While exessive oaking masks the effective face of a certain wine - may it be that there is worse to hide or keeping a natural beauty from shining - other cellar practices like industrial yeasts, manipulation of sugar, alcohol and acid levels and the use of enzymes among other have much stronger distorting effects, but I'm sure you're aware of that.

However, most of the growers in Montalcino are playing the game, and I would suspect the same for the Alba region and, well, everywhere, where an educated wine production exists.

If you are looking for natural, low interventive and careful winemaking there are few that come to mind: Probably Baricci, Soldera, Franco Pacenti, Palmucci and Gianni Brunelli are some of the names you should look out for.

If you want to understand Brunello as a wine it becomes a bit more difficult, since first there are different sites: The north east around Torrenieri which probably suits grains better than grapes, the delicate northern slopes of Montalcino with a cooler climate and heavier soils and Lambardi and Franco Pacenti as honest growers for an example, the zone of Valdicava/Montosoli which produces some of the most aromatic intersting grapes (pre 2001-Valdicava, Baricci, Le Chiuse di Sotto, early Biondi Santi, La Casa from Caparzo), Castelnuovo dell'abate with its particular micro-climates (try Uccelliera, Palmucci, selections of Casanova di Neri,) and the part further vs. south east from Mastrojanni and San Giorgio from 2001 on. Then there are the more central estates like La Torre and Lisini which rarely pick before october, and more to south west with a Maremma influenced, hotter climate and the more famous estates like Talenti, Soldera, Caprili, Fattoi, and Banfi/Col d'Orcia/Argiano/Camigliano an many many more...

Then winemaking styles: Estates are changing them like other people their clothes. Montalcino is a region with much capital and therefore many consultants, and every consultant has his/her own religion and is masking the wines with his/her stamp. I won't continue the tirade but this instability makes it difficult to follow the wines of a single estate. As a perfect example: Try Valdicava from the middle 90ies and the 2001 version.

And lastly: A Brunello should also have the capacity to age. ciacci Piccolomini from '88 a '90 and Caparzo La Casa '88 for instance have just begun to show what they have to offer, Biondi Santi '90 was still very shy some years ago. Unfortunately, many estates are hardly selecting and use most of the grapes for the Brunello despite unsufficient quality, but actually Brunello should be built for long term drinking, for short time you have the Rosso. You wouldn't understand Bordeaux only by tasting Haut Brion 2001 either, no?

Nowadays, many are replanting with better clones or selections, cleaning up the cellar, Brettanomyces is better known than Damocles and many are experimenting with bio-dynamic agriculture and slowly are turning vs. a less manipulative winemaking.

To make it short (ha,ha) I would guess it to be difficult to get the real picture of the wines of Montalcino, but the potential is deffinitely there and it sees there is much too be expected in the coming years.

Andy, superb reply, thanks! Maybe Poggio Salvi wasn't the easiest answer but it was the Brunello I've most liked so far - so in that sense this has been a success.

I understand that understanding a complete region is impossible - especially for one like me who hasn't really cared for the region all that much and therefore hasn't experimented much. But I did hope for, and received, many guidelines on what to next try to improve my understanding.

-O-

Brunello seems to be made somewhat lighter lately than in the very recent past. It used to be our ironclad rule not to touch one for fifteen years. We recently opened and posted on one that we opened at ten and was maxed out. It was lovely though, so I don't know if this is good news or not. One fifteen year old that we opened many years ago still sticks in both of our minds as one of the best wines we have ever enjoyed.

Robin,

When I read the word 'oak,' particularly in a discussion of whether a wine is spoofulated or not (and whether the oak is integrated or not) I assume the author is referring to new, small barrels. Botte don't have to integrate because they don't add components to the wine, they transfrom those that are there.

Oliver,
A very reasonable assumption and I agree with you. Oak means small barrels, usually new. I am a true oakaphobe and hate noticeable and dominate oak in a wine regardless of the age. Having said that it would be hard to imagine most red wines without some treatment in barrels. Large barrels and Robin's comment about shaping the wine is what I look for except in the largest of the reds.

Guess I am reacting to Chianti (sangiovese) as I think this is how these wines should be treated.

Walt