Netscape Forum Poll: Your ability to evaluate wine

[Robin Garr]

We assume that we're all here because we enjoy wine, but we're not all called upon to judge the stuff. For this week's online poll, we're curious how participants in our international community of wine lovers rate our own individual capability to evaluate wine. In the complete privacy of the Netscape/CompuServe WineLovers Community "voting booth," we invite your frank and candid appraisal.

<b>Click here to vote</b>
Usual reminder: You don't have to register or log in to Netscape or CompuServe to vote, and you may feel free to post comments to the Netscale Forum or to this thread as you prefer.

Since I forgot my Netscape screen name, I guess I'll comment here.

Interesting question which addresses for me about three different items:

#1. There's method. Swish and spit, so to speak. Color, aroma, taste, tongue feel, finish and other "objective data points." All measureable things. This can be learned by anyone, although I am red-green colorblind which is a definite disadvantage.

#2. There's knowledge and experience. How large a storehouse of sensory memories does one have with which one can associate the data points in #1 above? How well informed is one about what goes on in the world of wine? These knowledges and experiences can be amassed with some effort.

#3. There's innate ability and talent. How sensitive is one's tongue and nose and how well does one translate those sensations into meaningful information for others? This can be trained somewhat, but I really think, looking at myself, that you either have it or you don't ... and I don't.

#1 and #2 I've acquired through study and practice. #3 not so much. To paraphrase Freud, "Sometimes a glass of wine is just a glass of wine." And that disappointments me because I know there's more out there to experience (unless, of course, you guys have been lying to me all these years).

I'll repeat the comment I posted on Compuserve.

I dunno. What's average?

I've been drinking wine for more than 40 years, and one thing I've noticed is that my senses have dulled in the last 5 years or so. Whites in particular seem to have lost nuance.

[David M. Bueker]

Since I can't access the Netscape forum from here (thank you Net Nanny) I'll say that I think I am a pretty far above average taster, but it's because I have been able to participate in three separate blind tasting groups that have covered much of the world for me. I have learned to recognize grape variety (only mistake Bordeaux for Burgundy once a day or so), region (at least to the country) and method in many cases. There's a few vineyard sites I can peg once in a while, but that's just because I drink so much from them.

The one thing I have learned about tasting is to always trust my first instinct. I've screwed up more guesses by over thinking than I have ever gotten right.

I decided I was "above average," because I was blind tasted on some Loire wines last week and was able to identify a Vouvray, a Coteux du Layons, and a Savenniere. Does that make me above average? I have no idea.

I clicked average.

Not sure, because I'm just starting to explore this as a hobby. I'm taking the WSET Intermediate certificate course, and hope to have a better grasp of what to look for when I'm through. As it stands now, we've had two classes and tasted 9-10 wines in each, and it seems that my impressions as to aroma differ greatly from everyone elses (excepting bolder and more obvious scents such as olives and smoke.)

Robin,

What population do you have in mind when you ask us to rate ourselves as "average", etc? If it is the total American, British, Belgian, French, etc. populations are the reference points, I think that everybody who posts or lurks on this board is "above average" and that is where I voted.

Speaking, however, for myself, when rating my ability against my wine loving friends or the professionals whom I know, I feel very modest about my ability and, for example, I don't think my judgement is good enough to go into the trade. It happens sometimes that I like a wine at a tasting but when I get it home and drink it with food I revise my judgement downwards, particularly with "modern" wines; the vice versa experience is rare because I tend not to buy wines which I do not care for at tastings.

When Dave Erickson says he has distinguished blind between Vouvray, Coteaux du Layon and Savennières, I would put him into the "excellent" category in almost any population except professionals from those areas. I drink a lot of loire wine but am not confident that I could do the same although an illicit glimpse at the bottle shape would allow me to differentiate Vouvray/Montlouis from Layon/Savennières.

Not sure, because I'm just starting to explore this as a hobby. I'm taking the WSET Intermediate certificate course, and hope to have a better grasp of what to look for when I'm through. As it stands now, we've had two classes and tasted 9-10 wines in each, and it seems that my impressions as to aroma differ greatly from everyone elses (excepting bolder and more obvious scents such as olives and smoke.)

Boy, just starting and taking classes! Very impressive!

Join the club with the different impressions. My nose and tongue seem to ferret out vegetal, capsicum, peat-moss-like, oxidised and sulfuric odors and tastes when everyone else is chanting about cassis, cherries, plums, etc. If it stinks, I pick up on it. I find I really have to do some Zen to perceive the fruity stuff even though I work on establishing benchmarks by consciously smelling and tasting those things which the wine is supposed to recall, e.g. berries, other fruits etc.

I'm "average" at best. Although I always seem to prefer the pricier wines (even when tasting blind) than the plonk, at least. I do seem to be hyper-sensitive to caramelly oak notes and vanillin.

[Robin Garr]

What population do you have in mind when you ask us to rate ourselves as "average", etc? If it is the total American, British, Belgian, French, etc. populations are the reference points, I think that everybody who posts or lurks on this board is "above average" and that is where I voted.

Tim, you're really assuming a level of nuance that doesn't exist here.

Seriously, these little polls are non-rigorous and non-scientific. I put them up mostly just for fun and, hoping it works when I come up with a good one, to prompt us to think about wine-related topics, talk about them, and maybe learn something about ourselves, about wine or both.

That's a long way of saying that it's really up to your own definition, and obviously this one made you think.

If we ever wanted to do a rigorous survey with any validity at all, though, we couldn't frame the instrument in that simple form, and we couldn't really accomplish it by simply opening a poll and waiting to see who participates.

In the spirit of having a bit of fun, here's what I posted onto the other forum in response to this somewhat provocative question.

When in the presence of Garr & Buckner, I would rate a decidely "Well Below Average".

When in the room with a random collection of NHL fans, I would (hopefuly) rate "Above Average".

So, I guess that makes me just about Average.


-- Clark

[Jenise]

Kind of like Clark. Among regulars of this forum, I'm average. Elsewhere, I'm well above average and have some people fooled into thinking I'm excellent.

When Dave Erickson says he has distinguished blind between Vouvray, Coteaux du Layon and Savennières, I would put him into the "excellent" category in almost any population except professionals from those areas. I drink a lot of loire wine but am not confident that I could do the same although an illicit glimpse at the bottle shape would allow me to differentiate Vouvray/Montlouis from Layon/Savennières.

Full disclosure: I've also confused '93 Beaune with Cannonau

was able to identify a Vouvray, a Coteux du Layons, and a Savenniere.

Were these all sweet wines?

Kind of like Clark. Among regulars of this forum, I'm average. Elsewhere, I'm well above average and have some people fooled into thinking I'm excellent.

I'd say that applies to me as well. It amazes me that companions really want me to pick the wine at a restaurant. I think that most folks are uncomfortable doing that. Also, I got lucky once on a wine pick and they remember that.

My ability to judge wine is determined by my own preferences. Beyond that, judging a wine for its own merits of style and terroir?...I'd probably rate myself as...Poor.

A good friend of mine (who runs the local retail outlet in this area) is always saying..."It tastes like it is supposed to taste." I understand the mindset, but am unable to distance myself from a wine that I don't like.

Richard

was able to identify a Vouvray, a Coteux du Layons, and a Savenniere.

Were these all sweet wines?

No. The Vouvray and Coteaux du Layons were both off-dry; the Savenniere, a Domaine de Baumard Trie Speciale, was sui generis. They have some sweetness to them, but they also pack a wallop in terms of acidity. In fact, once you've tasted a Savenniere, it's pretty easy to spot later on--there's not much else like it.