Another cooked Paul Jaboulet Aîné?

Last week I opened a '96 Cornas, then came here and asked how to describe what was wrong with it. It tasted like bad Kalamata olives. Well, last night, as part of the Wine Focus, I opened a 2000 Crozes-Hermitage Les Jalets-->

Cooked? Color was pale and dull, a light brownish red. The nose smelled first very brambly, but then clear notes of burnt toast and caramel, with some plum skin. Tasted of charred beef (just the charred part, not the beef part), Kalamata olives and burnt sugar.

I will be returning this one to the store. Fortunately, I have a great wine guy, and I have no doubt he will do the right thing. But my question- does this sound like a cooked wine, or is this line of wine just particularly foul?

Look at my `03 tasting notes!! Mine was a bust too!!

D,
Cooked.
Bill

Bill,
thanks.
D

Indy? where? and where do you go for wine? I've been going to the 21st Amendment Wine Gallery at Greyhound Pass (just north of 146th at Meridian). Philip is the wine guy, and he is great.

D,
A couple of PMs sent.
Bill

Are you pretty familiar with Northern Rhone wines?

Oliver,
Not sure if your question is directed to me or D. If to me then YES, I'm not an expert on No. Rhone, but have had my share of bottles over the years. I also have a bit of local Indy knowledge which leads me to believe these wines most likely saw storage issues during their lifetime. I also had this very same wine about 2 or 3 years ago and it tasted nothing like D describes, nor should it IMO.
Best,
Bill

Had the '97 Cornas a few months back, and I definitely thought there was something wrong with the bottle...I thought it cooked. This bottle was bought in California.

So, is there something wrong with the winemaking or the shipping?

So, is there something wrong with the winemaking

This is Jaboulet we are talking about, right?

Had the '97 Cornas a few months back, and I definitely thought there was something wrong with the bottle...I thought it cooked. This bottle was bought in California.

So, is there something wrong with the winemaking or the shipping?

Most likely the shipping, especially since you're in California. Jaboulet's a reliable producer/negociant. I doubt that the shipment was air freighted, so to get to CA it either went by boat through the Panama Canal, or across the Atlantic to a US East Coast port, and then cross-country by truck or rail. In either case (and especially in the former), there's plenty of opportunity for the wine to be cooked, unless the importer or wholesaler shipped it in a temperature controlled container. And many don't. Some others do ship it in such a container, so they can truthfully say "yes" if customers ask about that, but they keep the temperature control turned off to save on electricity costs.

And there's always opportunity for the retailer to indulge in bad storage.

-Paul W.

Must be storage issues. I opened a '01 Les Cedres CdP and it was very off with stewed, pruned notes...undrinkable.

Had the '97 Cornas a few months back, and I definitely thought there was something wrong with the bottle...I thought it cooked. This bottle was bought in California.

So, is there something wrong with the winemaking or the shipping?

What was wrong with the wine, specifically? Why do you say 'cooked?'

What was wrong with the wine, specifically? Why do you say 'cooked?'

The fruit had a stewed character to it, with little acid or balance, like it had been, well, heated up. The wine was while not undrinkable, just not very enjoyable. Like when you get a wine on the verge of becoming oxidized...

I have to say that I decided quite a few years ago that Jaboulet's non-marque wines are the poster children for variation. Whether that is due to bottling by barrel rather than blending, shipping considerations, or what I cannot say. But the P45 used to be my "go to" cheap CdR. Until I found that I could buy bottles of the same vintage that tasted far far dfferent. And the Les Jalets Crozes is just as bad. as far as I can tell, the Thalabert is more reliable. I can't afford la Chappelle, and seldom see others.

I'm sure going to stay away, considering that my first two experiences were so bad, and that others here have had the same problems.

The Jaboulet 1997 Cornas, cooked or not, just isn't getting much praise. I follow the notes since I have a few bottles. I'm holding them, hoping that they will eventually come around.

Sounds to me like there is a shipping problem. I do find that Jaboulet isn't producing as good stuff I would expect from their reputation and the few older ones I've had. But the ones I've tasted, including perfectly proper if a bit uninspiring Parallèle 45s, are honest wines and frankly not that different to the other Rhônes in that price range.

I have also had a few pleasant surprises from Jaboulet: The Cornas 1999 was stunning once it came out of a very weird, freakish period - especially in that it cost "only" 20€ (cheap for Finland). I'm also just now sipping a small glass of Hermitage La Chapelle 2000 which isn't at all as bad as the La Chapelles have rumoured to have become - TN to follow soon in Wine Focus.

So, I don't think Jaboulet is anymore making top notch stuff, but it isn't IMO as bad as many in this thread say. That, plus some of the descriptors used, make me think that there was indeed a bit of heat applied to those bottles.

I don't know that Jaboulet itself is bad. However, with the comments here and my own experience, I do wonder if the importer is cutting corners and the wine being mistreated to the point any purchase is too high a risk.