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TomHill

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JamieGoode on Natural Wines

by TomHill » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:26 pm

Interesting article by JamieGoode on the Natural Wine
Movement:
JamieGoode/NaturalWineMovement

in which he condemns to tendency of natural wines to show "process" at the expense of "terroir". And just when you thought all of the discussion of Natural wine had run its course.

He attempts to define Natural wine w/ a list of permitted or forbidden additions. It's always puzzled me that Natural wine adherents forbid the addition of acids...but look the other way at the addition of sugar. A bit of hypocrisy?

The interesting takeaway of this (yet another) article on Natural wines is that maybe the movement has run its course and will simply fade away into the sunset, having done its job. EGads...one can only hope. And where will that leave SweetAlice?? Searching for another windmill at which to tilt?
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Brian K Miller

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Re: JamieGoode on Natural Wines

by Brian K Miller » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:43 pm

Not sure if you noticed my brief note on a Forlorn Hope wine, which to me shows "natural wine" character more than "Lodi" or the grape variety? :lol:
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Yup....

by TomHill » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:45 pm

Brian K Miller wrote:Not sure if you noticed my brief note on a Forlorn Hope wine, which to me shows "natural wine" character more than "Lodi" or the grape variety? :lol:


Yup...saw your note on the FH wine. Will comment on it later.
I don't particularly regard Matt as a "natural" winemaker. At least, he doesn't
wear it on his sleeve. He's one I regard as "sorta natural".
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David M. Bueker

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Re: JamieGoode on Natural Wines

by David M. Bueker » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:10 pm

Where is the line between natural and sorta natural?
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Steve Slatcher

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Re: JamieGoode on Natural Wines

by Steve Slatcher » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:13 pm

TomHill wrote:It's always puzzled me that Natural wine adherents forbid the addition of acids...but look the other way at the addition of sugar.

But is that actually the case?

I know Jamie doesn't mention it in his verboten list, but there are other things he also omits.

Of course, there is no strict definition, but by impression was that sugar was anathema - natural wine should be made from grapes and grapes alone. Or possibly with very small SO2 additions ;)
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CouldBe

by TomHill » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:01 pm

Steve Slatcher wrote:
TomHill wrote:It's always puzzled me that Natural wine adherents forbid the addition of acids...but look the other way at the addition of sugar.

But is that actually the case?

I know Jamie doesn't mention it in his verboten list, but there are other things he also omits.

Of course, there is no strict definition, but by impression was that sugar was anathema - natural wine should be made from grapes and grapes alone. Or possibly with very small SO2 additions ;)


CouldBe, Steve. I've seen all sorts of "lists" about what constitutes "natural" wine. Sometimes sugar is included,
oftentimes not.
If have an easy definition of "natural" wine. If Alice says it's "natural", then by dammies it's "natural".
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Re: JamieGoode on Natural Wines

by Rahsaan » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:40 pm

TomHill wrote:...in which he condemns to tendency of natural wines to show "process" at the expense of "terroir".


I think this is undeniable and non-controversial.

It has long been a complaint waged against the natural wine community, that the carbonic fresh and frunky fruit juice products are similarly generic as the thick oak soup bombs.

One might make the argument that fresh and frunky fruit juice is at least better than thick oak soup at matching with food. Although to some extent that depends on what you are eating.

Either way, as much as I enjoy the lively frisson of a fresh natural wine, the lack of distinctiveness has limited my exposure.
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Re: JamieGoode on Natural Wines

by Brian K Miller » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:50 pm

Rahsaan wrote:
TomHill wrote:...in which he condemns to tendency of natural wines to show "process" at the expense of "terroir".


I think this is undeniable and non-controversial.

It has long been a complaint waged against the natural wine community, that the carbonic fresh and frunky fruit juice products are similarly generic as the thick oak soup bombs.

One might make the argument that fresh and frunky fruit juice is at least better than thick oak soup at matching with food. Although to some extent that depends on what you are eating.

Either way, as much as I enjoy the lively frisson of a fresh natural wine, the lack of distinctiveness has limited my exposure.


This is an interesting summary, R. So...what EVILLLLLL unnatural processes and ingredients are being used to artificially create this distinctiveness?

(rhetorical question) :lol:
...(Humans) are unique in our capacity to construct realities at utter odds with reality. Dogs dream and dolphins imagine, but only humans are deluded. –Jacob Bacharach
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Steve Slatcher

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Re: JamieGoode on Natural Wines

by Steve Slatcher » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:57 pm

But does not all that funk come from the micro-organisms in the vineyard, and thus is an expression of terroir that you do not get if you kill them all off with SO2? Just playing devil's advocate really, but that is an argument you do see.

What I really think is that there is a lot of rubbish written and spoken about terroir expression. How many terroirs can any one person learn to recognise in the absence of a glimpse of the label? I have certainly seen reports of a few blind tastings where respected tasters fail to distinguish between terroirs they thought they had a good handle on. I am not saying the idea of terroir is all rubbish - just that it is often discussed far too glibly.

I certainly would not want all wines to taste alike, but for me natural wines only add to the gamut of available flavours. And if they do get more prevalent, and people drink a lot more of them, my suspicion is that we will learn to distinguish more nuances in natural wines. Some of those nuances might be due to the vagaries of the winemaking, but I am not sure I really care as long as they taste nice and are interesting.

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