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David M. Bueker
Riesling Guru
34259
Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am
Connecticut
Peter May
Pinotage Advocate
3798
Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:24 am
Snorbens, England
TomHill wrote:
It is also well-known that PinotNoir (and Nebbiolo) mutate at the drop of a hat. You plant a vnyd to Clone 777 and, after a number of yrs, there will be Pinot vines that are no longer identical to Clone 777 that you originally planted. I'd be curious to know if a good grower can observe if/when one of his Pinot vines has mutated??
TomHill wrote:
I also find out that when you buy (say) Clone 777 from a grapevine supplier that it is illegal for the grower to propagate that clone in his vnyd or sell plant material to other growers. That is, it is illegal to do a selection massale in your own vnyd. Sounds like a rule that was imposed by the Trump-run Dept of Agriculture to rein in those unruly growers.
Peter May
Pinotage Advocate
3798
Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:24 am
Snorbens, England
TomHill wrote:Interesting article, as linked in WineTorroirist, to a 750Daily: https://daily.sevenfifty.com/overturning-the-monoclonal-status-quo/ in which we learn, at least for Chard and Pinot vnyds, that there are increased plantings of multi-clonal vnyds in Calif & Oregon.
Peter May wrote:TomHill wrote:
It is also well-known that PinotNoir (and Nebbiolo) mutate at the drop of a hat. You plant a vnyd to Clone 777 and, after a number of yrs, there will be Pinot vines that are no longer identical to Clone 777 that you originally planted. I'd be curious to know if a good grower can observe if/when one of his Pinot vines has mutated??
There's an article (link below) by Anne Krebiehl MW who argues that PN doesn't mutate so easily, but that weather conditions can affect it so much that it looks different. She starts with
the entirely false assumption, repeated with sufficient frequency to become accepted as truth by many, that Pinot Noir is somehow more prone to mutation and less genetically stable than other Vitis vinifera varieties. but ........ “Pinot has hundreds of clones simply because it is very old, not because it is naturally more prone to mutation than other
varieties.”
I am one who has repeated that 'accepted truth'
http://www.anneinvino.com/wp-content/up ... r-WOFW.pdfTomHill wrote:
I also find out that when you buy (say) Clone 777 from a grapevine supplier that it is illegal for the grower to propagate that clone in his vnyd or sell plant material to other growers. That is, it is illegal to do a selection massale in your own vnyd. Sounds like a rule that was imposed by the Trump-run Dept of Agriculture to rein in those unruly growers.
Trump is innocent on this. 777 is a proprietary clone. The fee on it goes to support the work of ENTAV who own the plant breeders rights (PBR).
I don't know how many vineyard owners do their own selection, as they'd also have to either have a mother vine rootstock or source rootstocks and graft them together. Most commercial vineyards buy their grafted vines form a nursery, for 777 it would have to be authorised to propagate 777 and the PBR fee would be included in the cost of the vine
David M. Bueker
Riesling Guru
34259
Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am
Connecticut
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