The place for all things wine, focused on serious wine discussions.

JonBonne: Texture in Wine

Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker

no avatar
User

TomHill

Rank

Here From the Very Start

Posts

7853

Joined

Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:01 pm

JonBonne: Texture in Wine

by TomHill » Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:35 pm

As linked in WineTerroirist, in Punch, JonBonne crawls way out on a limb:
WineTexture
and tries to make some sense of texture in wine. It's a very complicated subject and Jon makes a valiant effort to bring some rigor to the subject. And not altogether successfully. Much like minerality and phenolic, it's difficult to wrap ones arms around the subject and talk about the subject with terms we can all grasp.
In my (short/boring) TN's, when I'm talking about the tannins in a wine (red or white), I try to describe not only the intensity of the tannins, but also the texture as well. Although a Nebbiolo and a Montepulciano may have roughly the same level of tannins, their texture is often vastly different. That's something I try to convey a sense of..not altogether successfully.
Although many folks tend to dismiss Jon's writings, I think he's made a good/thoughtful effort in this article to make sense of the subject of texture.
Tom
no avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Riesling Guru

Posts

34251

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: JonBonne: Texture in Wine

by David M. Bueker » Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:43 pm

Interesting article, but he never really quite gets there. He bemoans that people do not discuss it. He identifies the things that go into it, but then he stops. It feels like a final section is missing.
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

Howie Hart

Rank

The Hart of Buffalo

Posts

6389

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:13 pm

Location

Niagara Falls, NY

Re: JonBonne: Texture in Wine

by Howie Hart » Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:40 pm

I've been thinking about an aspect of the subject for the past few days that is not mentioned: the sugars in wine. Common table sugar is sucrose, a di-saccharide consisting of glucose molecule (6 carbon sugar) bonded to a fructose molecule (5 carbon sugar). Grape sugar consists of the same two molecules, in the same proportion, not bonded together. In the presence of yeast and the acid in the wine, sucrose will break down into the two components. The sugar content of the juice and the resulting increase of alcohol in the wine, can easily be increased by the addition of sucrose, with little effect on the other flavors. It's the same with sussreserve, when juice at pressing is reserved and added back to the wine prior to bottling for sweetening: glucose + fructose. When a wine has "residual" sugar, this implies that the fermentation was stopped prior to going completely dry, but often, sucrose is added to the wine prior to bottling. There is a subtle difference in the mouthfeel of wines made these two ways. This is because during fermentation, yeast has a preference for the glucose and consumes it first, leaving fructose for the latter part of fermentation. The glucose and fructose act differently in the mouth. The glucose can be cloying or syruppy, while the fructose gives a sweeter impression and a cleaner mouthfeel. In 2013 I did an experiment with Riesling. I fermented normally until just over half the sugar had been consumed. I removed about 15% of the batch and froze it. The rest of the batch continued fermenting to completely dry. Then, several months later, just prior to bottling, I added the partially fermented wine back into the batch, filtered and bottled it. The resulting wine had a much higher concentration of fructose than glucose, so it tasted a bit sweeter and had a clean finish. Tomorrow I will be getting my 2018 Riesling grapes from a local grower and plan on repeating this partial sussreserve.
While this example is a bit narrow, the other things mentioned (acidity, tannins, etc.) may all have subtle tweaks to the process that change the "texture".
Chico - Hey! This Bottle is empty!
Groucho - That's because it's dry Champagne.
no avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Riesling Guru

Posts

34251

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: JonBonne: Texture in Wine

by David M. Bueker » Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:00 am

Deliberate addition of sucrose is not a practice used by any top tier producers.

Sussreserve has also largely fallen out of fashion.

The recent trend towards “feinherb” Rieslings in Germany has been largely a product of allowing fermentation’s to stop whenever they want to stop, rather than ending them through deliberate intervention.
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

Howie Hart

Rank

The Hart of Buffalo

Posts

6389

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:13 pm

Location

Niagara Falls, NY

Re: JonBonne: Texture in Wine

by Howie Hart » Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:05 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:Deliberate addition of sucrose is not a practice used by any top tier producers.

Sussreserve has also largely fallen out of fashion.

The recent trend towards “feinherb” Rieslings in Germany has been largely a product of allowing fermentation’s to stop whenever they want to stop, rather than ending them through deliberate intervention.

I must be like Aldo Cella, where in one of the old "Chill a Cella" ads it was stated that he "was no slave to fashion". The fresh juice used for sussreserve and sucrose addition both end up adding back 57% glucose and 43% fructose. However, as fermentation progresses the glucose is consumed first, so, by having the fermentation end, either on it's own or by intervention (chilling, followed by filtration), the ratio of fructose to glucose changes, as the yeast prefers to eat the glucose first. This gives a different mouthfeel and reinforces what you said above.
Chico - Hey! This Bottle is empty!
Groucho - That's because it's dry Champagne.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ClaudeBot, Majestic-12 [Bot] and 2 guests

Powered by phpBB ® | phpBB3 Style by KomiDesign