Advice Sought on "Bargain Shopping"

As a beginner to this whole wine appreciation scene, I'm just starting to accumulate wines that will age well and perhaps be something of an investement, and I'm wondering if there are any tips as to when to purchase a wine at its best value?

I've found myself reading reviews that sound really good, then going on-line and shopping around for the best price and ordering, yet I can't help but feel I'm finding out about these wines when they're "hot" and when everyone else is and then paying premium for them. (Current example would be the Silver Oak 2002 Napa Cab at about $99).

Of course, I know that there are some great WTN on this website and often price-paid notes to go along, which is very helpful. I just wondered if there were any basic guidelines to accumulating good, age-worthy wines at the best possible price.

As always, thanks for your input!

Not sure if this helps, but the way I see it you have the following options:

1) Purchase on release before Parker Scores emerge and prices rise
2) Purchase on closeout for reduced prices
3) Purchase at the winery in Europe
4) Stalk Florida Jim and purchase with him

Good one Rahsaan!!

I would start off by indeed checking the tasting notes here. Also visit as many wine stores as possible and prop up their tasting bar! Best way to learn.

Oh yeah, another piece of (more serious) advice would be to consider carefully the region you are looking to for "good age-worthy wines at the best possible price".

As such you probably won't be looking to Napa, the classified growth of Bordeaux, Burgundy, or the sanctified dirt of Barolo, Barbaresco, Hermitage, Cote Rotie, etc, etc.

Instead, try Southern France, Switzerland, the Loire, Southern Italy, etc, etc..

I would start off by indeed checking the tasting notes here. Also visit as many wine stores as possible and prop up their tasting bar! Best way to learn.

I have put myself on the email list for all local wine stores, so I'm trying to get to as many of the free tastings as possible.

4) Stalk Florida Jim and purchase with him

Hah - I've actually done that already!!

While stalking Florida Jim is great advice, buying almost anything from Chambers Street Wines in your price range, whatever that may be, will get you "bargains" and really interesting wines. I have no relationship with them other than as a compulsive customer.

While stalking Florida Jim is great advice, buying almost anything from Chambers Street Wines in your price range, whatever that may be, will get you "bargains" and really interesting wines. I have no relationship with them other than as a compulsive customer.

I've got Chambers saved under my favorites, and have ordered from them on a couple of occassions. Will start checking them out more regularly for deals!

Agree with all the advice given including Chamber's Street. Nobody has mentioned futures, and I think I understand why. For one thing people tend to associate futures with investments, and secondly there are a number of horror stories.

If you go through a reputable retailer, preferably one with whom you have already established a relationship; can save you a lot of money. Also recommend getting together with others to split up the cases you buy this way. That way you don't have to take a risk on a whole case of one wine.

A few years ago we were able to pick up half case of '00 Chateau Lagrange for $24 and change (U.S.) in futures. By the time it was released the price had gone up by $10.

A few thoughts:
In the more famous regions, look for wines that are less fashionable/famous yet with a history of aging well. I'm thinking things like Savigny and Pommard from good producers in Burgundy, or Bordeaux chateaux like Poujeaux, Lanessan, or La Louviere.

Look for strong "classic" vintages that aren't "vintage of the century"- 2001 Cotes de Nuits, '01/'02 Bordeaux. As the VOTC candidates roll in, one can sometimes find great deals as retailers need to make space/raise money.

Germany (white) and the Loire (red and white) are probably the best regions for proven ageable wine under $25.

While closeouts can be great, they're only great if you have confidence in the retailer. Closeouts from places that are warehouse liquor stores are very often cooked in my experience. Stick with retailers with good reps.

Don't EVER decide you have to have a wine. If you can't get it at a price that you want, just don't buy it. There's always more wine

At the risk of sounding heretical, why spend your time chasing after wines that are "ageable"? It's a lot easier to find good tasting inexpensive wines that don't have to be laid down. Having said that, there is a veritable ocean of wine from such appellations as Ventoux and Cotes du Luberon in France, and Yecla, Toro, Campo de Borjo, and Calatayud in Spain, all of which will take a year or two of ageing well, all of which are relatively inexpensive, and capable of being quite delicious.

At the risk of sounding heretical, why spend your time chasing after wines that are "ageable"? It's a lot easier to find good tasting inexpensive wines that don't have to be laid down. Having said that, there is a veritable ocean of wine from such appellations as Ventoux and Cotes du Luberon in France, and Yecla, Toro, Campo de Borjo, and Calatayud in Spain, all of which will take a year or two of ageing well, all of which are relatively inexpensive, and capable of being quite delicious.

Believe me, I don't have the money or space to chase down many. I'd just like to have a few bottles around that I can really look forward to, and maybe a couple of the same vintage that I can try several years apart, just to see how much difference another few years makes (or doesn't).

Which begs one other question if I may: I don't have a proper cellar - all I've got is a closet that remains relatively undisturbed. However, the average temperature in the apartment is probably around 72...how detrimental is it to store wine long-term outside of the 55-65 degree range?

Which begs one other question if I may: I don't have a proper cellar - all I've got is a closet that remains relatively undisturbed. However, the average temperature in the apartment is probably around 72...how detrimental is it to store wine long-term outside of the 55-65 degree range?

Those conditions sound less than ideal, but may be OK for a couple years if the wine is not too fragile. I would not try to store Burgundy in those conditions, thats for sure. I would suggest you get a wine fridge if you want to store wines for an extended amount of time.

[quote="Steve_LW]Those conditions sound less than ideal, but may be OK for a couple years if the wine is not too fragile. I would not try to store Burgundy in those conditions, thats for sure. I would suggest you get a wine fridge if you want to store wines for an extended amount of time.[/quote]

Right now all I've got is a couple of bottles of Brunello di Montalcino. I really don't even have the space for a wine fridge unforunately (not yet anyway, we may be moving in September). I've got a self-storage space for my excess furniture, and it is climate controlled at about 60, but it's very dry. Hmmm, maybe I'll ask my coworker to store them in his basement, although I'm always afraid he's going to drink them by accident

I see you are in DC so, check out the The Wine Rack in Glover Park (upper Georgetown).

http://www.dcwinestorage.com/

I used them when I was living abroad and they have fine storage facilities and you can rent a very small locker (120 bottle capacity). Even if you are just starting and don't need that much space at the moment, I can assure you that you will soon...

K - To save $$ and yet get god collectable wines, I have bought wine futures at Calvert Woodley and MacArthur. Not a bad thing, although I hated parting with my cash and not getting my wine for 2 years. But even then, you have to have read some reviews to get wines that will, most likely, be very good upon release. This has resulted in buying wines in the 20 to 50 doll range that are selling for 150 today.
I've also found wine that I like and then shopped around. I often end up at a Virginia Costco where their price usually beats any wine shop.
By far the best thing I've done, however, is read. I look for little known wines or little known areas. Sometimes, I read looking for items like this (my best story): In the mid 1980s or so, all the focus in the wine world seemed to me to be on the 1982 vintage in France. I had read, though, that in Margaux, the 1983s were actually better. Well, the 83s just were not moving off the shelves like the 82s were. Several DC shops were discounting the 83 Margaux wines so I loaded up. Best decision I ever made and reading lead to it all.
So, to sum up, read, buy futures, read, shop around and read.

The advice given by others already is excellent. At the risk of being redundant, here are a few thoughts:

** Don't chase wines highly-rated by Parker unless you are absolutely positive you share his palate and agree with his assessments. Look to sites like this one for ideas on buying wines that cost a fraction of the price of Parker 90+ yet are far better, especially with food.

** Only buy wines during sales (I only purchase from MacArthur and Calvert-Woodley during their fall wine sales) or in quantities of 12 or more from stores that give you a 10 or 20 percent discount for mixed case purchases (meaning you can buy 12 different wines but still get the break).

** Chambers Street -- ditto ditto ditto. Keep in mind that the shipping fee you pay usually comes pretty close to the 9 percent D.C. sales tax you pay when buying locally. And they give a 10 percent discount on mixed cases.

** Look to value regions like the Loire and Beaujolais. Many Loire wines are ageworthy and even some cru Beaujolais are fascinating to drink with some age on them.

** Look to value alternatives -- e.g., Gattinara instead of Barolo/Barbaresco (often just as good but at a much lower price), Walla Walla Valley instead of Napa (not cheap but generally cheaper).

** If you don't have optimal cellar conditions, don't concern yourself with buying wines that need 20 years to show their best; instead look for wines with a 10-year time horizon. I've got a passive basement cellar that ranges between 55 in the winter and 72 in these miserable hot humid summers, and I've had wines like cru Bourgeois Bordeaux, Gattinaras and Chinons at 10-12 years of age that have tasted great, but I've avoided first-growth Bordeaux and single-vineyard Barolos both because I'm a cheapskate and because I don't know if my cellar would do them justice.

Regarding storage: While less than ideal, you can safely store wine at 72 degrees F as long as you keep the temperature consistent. Fluctuation in storage temperature is a killer.

Thanks to all for the suggestions/advice, and especially those in the DC area w/ specific recommendations on retailers, etc. I will definitely check out the Wine Rack in Georgetown to see what their rates are, but in the meantime feel better about my closet based on some of the other comments.