And more points! Daniel Posner rant

Not that I think anyone will be confused, but I do want to point out that it's not me. I've gotten contacted by 3 Spanish wineries or importers to date to do tastings...

I was wondering how you managed the change from Burgundy and Loire Cot to the warm climate Garnacha based wines. Frankly I was a little worried that the radical change might be physically dangerous for you.




Good to hear you are OK, and not the same guy.

I am really enjoying the show. Particularly for a striking feature: practically no one opining (here or on eBob's) has ever tasted the infamous 100-point wines. But ignorance is no obstacle to pontification.

Victor,
Do I really have to have tried the latest vintage of Termanthia to know that my Jay Miller won't like it, and that in all likelihood neither will I? Unless the review says something about "dramatic stylistic departure," this isn't going to be my kind of thing at all. If the 2003 was a "thermonuclear fruit bomb," is the 2004 all of a sudden a model of subtlety?

Of course, my hands are completely clean on PAR's specific point, because not only have I not tasted the wines, I haven't even read the reviews!

Pierre Rovani just responded to Posner's email over on eBobby. Train wreck.

Bill, I looked but could not find it. Which page do I go to? It seems to be hotting up, especially when most have not even tasted the wines (grin, wink). You gotta love it, Victor is in the thick of things too!!! Now Mr Z has sprung a leak too.

Here:

http://dat.erobertparker.com/bboard/sho ... p?t=123166

Rovani really comes off worse than I've ever seen him. Yes, that bad.

I agree, Jay -- his "moron" comment is off the charts.

I admire Posner's reply:

Pierre

This is disgusting of you, I have tasted most of these wines in question, as I mentioned in another thread. I request you remove this thread. I posted publicly what I felt about the reviews. That email that you have put out here was for my customers. I stand by it. Jay Miller's tasting notes were not appropriate for 100 point wines. That has been my commentary this week. Thank you, Bruce, for alerting me to this shameless display.

Regards, Bob

I see that Daniel's responses included the following:
Victor, if this is on other boards, I hope they remove my email as well as it has no place here.
I'd ask Robin to remove the quotes from Daniel's email. While I'm not sure that netiquette requires it (an email that went to hundreds or thousands of us is not exactly private), my theory is when in doubt do the polite thing.

I agree, Jay -- his "moron" comment is off the charts.

How so, Bob? If it is a reflection of what he's thinking---and from his past actions and comments I believe it is an exact reflection---then he should make the comment.

At least now the folks who used to read him are aware of how he regards them.

That's too bad. One of the positives of The Wine Advocate in the past has been a relative resistance to grade inflation. Oh, well.

-Paul W.

Most of the eBob furor over Miller's grade inflation is centered on the five* hundred pointers, which does at first glance seem a bit much. But as Victor de la Serna and Patraick Pence mention in a separate thread, the five, writes Serna, "all are wines produced in [only] the hundreds of cases," and as Pence observes, you and I may find it impossible to lay our hands on a single bottle. So it all seems to me a tempest in a taste vin. Five major Bordeaux estates might produce a hundred or more times as many bottles as Miller's five, so inflated ratings for them would smack of grade inflation, but what we are seeing here is hundred point ratings for a drop in the world bucket of super premium wines.

* Five? Everybody says five, so apparently I need a new pair of glasses. The only hundred pointers I can find in Miller's Wine Advocate piece are the 2004 Clos Erasmus, El Pison, Pingus and Termanthia.

"At least now the folks who used to read him are aware of how he regards them."

Oh, we agree completely, Hoke. He's hurting himself more than he's hurting my feelings. "Off the charts" only meant that he's destroying much of the good will he's built up over the years.

Maybe he doesn't care ... but it is very different most of what he's written in the past.

I see that Daniel's responses included the following:
Victor, if this is on other boards, I hope they remove my email as well as it has no place here.
I'd ask Robin to remove the quotes from Daniel's email. While I'm not sure that netiquette requires it (an email that went to hundreds or thousands of us is not exactly private),

Bah. If he wants it private, he shouldn't send it to a zillion people. It's just not a reasonable position.

A New Zealand wine-bloggiste I've got to know (only in cyberspace) over the last several years, has gone one better - he scores out of 109 these days. Point being, Craig dishes out plenty of 100+ pointers, too!


Prior to that, he scored to three decimal places!

I thought he still did the three decimal places!

[Robin Garr]

Bah. If he wants it private, he shouldn't send it to a zillion people. It's just not a reasonable position.

Agreed. The subject started here when I posted a short quote from the mass mail that Daniel sent to me. There is absolutely no question in my mind that this is a legitimate position, although if Daniel wishes to demur, he is welcome to discuss it with me directly.

As I noted, I don't think that netiquette requires it (and certainly not copyright law). But as Daniel has never posted here to my memory, I thought his public wish should be stated.

[Robin Garr]

As I noted, I don't think that netiquette requires it (and certainly not copyright law). But as Daniel has never posted here to my memory, I thought his public wish should be stated.

Speaking of netiquette, Daniel may not have posted here, but he or someone in his organization is clearly aware of us: I get an almost daily e-mail solicitation from him that I have never signed up for or otherwise requested. I don't mind exactly - I figure if it's wine-related and not from a spoofed address or advertising a sleazy product it's only minimally pink-meatish. But I certainly don't feel any moral pressure not to pass it on, in private or in public.

As I noted, I don't think that netiquette requires it (and certainly not copyright law). But as Daniel has never posted here to my memory, I thought his public wish should be stated.

Speaking of netiquette, Daniel may not have posted here, but he or someone in his organization is clearly aware of us: I get an almost daily e-mail solicitation from him that I have never signed up for or otherwise requested. I don't mind exactly - I figure if it's wine-related and not from a spoofed address or advertising a sleazy product it's only minimally pink-meatish. But I certainly don't feel any moral pressure not to pass it on, in private or in public.

Robin, exactly the same quote, plus a few more words at the end, is still up and running on eBob, despite Daniel's demands that it be deleted.

Robin

Our client list is small, if you are on it, you must have somehow signed up or made a purchase at one time as we do not buy any lists. If you would like to be removed from our email list, please just let me know and I will gladly take care of that tomorrow. While our private client email list is quite small, it did get a jolt this weekend thanks to Pierre's personal attack against me. Despite my personal emails to Mark Squires, he let the thread stay up until today, which only made me look better and left Pierre out to dry.

An email is private, period.

[Robin Garr]

Robin

Our client list is small, if you are on it, you must have somehow signed up or made a purchase at one time as we do not buy any lists. If you would like to be removed from our email list, please just let me know and I will gladly take care of that tomorrow. While our private client email list is quite small, it did get a jolt this weekend thanks to Pierre's personal attack against me. Despite my personal emails to Mark Squires, he let the thread stay up until today, which only made me look better and left Pierre out to dry.

An email is private, period.

Hi, Daniel, and welcome to our forum. I don't mind being on your list at all. However, just for the record, it's a fact that someone subscribed for me, and I assumed it was you or someone on your staff, perhaps because I write about wine. Again, it's all right. I enjoy your writing and am happy to have it.

As for the post, it doesn't really make much sense to "unring a bell," but I would suggest that you and your comments have generally been treated well on this forum. We don't have shepherds or sheep here, and I think if you'll read through the discussion you'll see that no one has attacked you or your opinion.

As for E-mail being private, I'm not sure I agree even with one-to-one E-mail. "Blast" mailings that go out to a list aren't private at all, and in fact, I seriously doubt that under normal circumstances you would object in the slightest to having your clients pass along the information in them.

'nuff said. There's no conflict here. I'm glad you found your way to WineLovers Discussion Group and hope you'll stay around and talk wine with us. You'll find the environment very different here than at some of the other wine forums that have come along since we've been doing this.

[Jenise]

Looks like Rovani's comments got scrubbed. Too bad, I was dying to read them.

And to Mr. Posner: Welcome to WLDG. I've known of you for some time, for your emails often get forwarded to me by someone else who is on your list, just as the subject email was before the brouhaha erupted on ebob. Which is to say that your customers have a lot of respect for you, and it's refreshing to read a retailer who says what he thinks. Don't change.

Welcome, Daniel.

Wine lovers have a great deal of respect for you and your opinion. I hope you will stick around and join in the discussions of other wine related subjects.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, I'm impressed by how you handled the matter on eBob. Grace under pressure and all that.

Regards, Bob

I too found it all very interesting! If you write good tasting notes, count me in!!! Welcome to this forum, Daniel.

I do have a question for you or Victor? Priorat, is this going to be an "ager" or is long term cellaring untested so far?

Do I really have to have tried the latest vintage of Termanthia to know that my Jay Miller won't like it, and that in all likelihood neither will I?!

I guess you don't like many other 100-point wines in the Wine Advocate, Joe. I don't like quite a few of them myself. But my point was that there was on the Squires board an unending, furious discussion on five wines with 100-point scores (not just Termanthia - four more) - and just a couple of the participants had tasted any of those! It was a delirious show. (Still is, if you care to check up on it...)

I also saw the thread about "terroir" Victor!!! Things have not livened up yet, it`s all so friendly. Seriously, Spain and "terrior" would make for an interesting discussion. I am thinking of the Toro region which seems to be making some serious wines. Sorry, back to the Daniel matter!!

Thanks Robin and others, I think the other forum would have been even uglier today if Mark Squires had left it open (I kept insisting to him to shut it down). Had it remained, Pierre's already poor rep would have just been made worse. I feel bad for him as well as others who agreed with his stance. My view was well thought out and he and just a few others just did not understand me and that is a shame for them. I got some free press and I found a new chat room!

Daniel,
I've read your posts in the past and really enjoyed them. Welcome, great bunch of wine lovers post here- I'm sure some names will be familliar to you.
Ed