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Wine Focus March 2023 - Benchmarks of Chenin Blanc

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Wine Focus March 2023 - Benchmarks of Chenin Blanc

by Robin Garr » Thu Mar 02, 2023 8:58 am

Today being February 30, let's start the March discussion a bit early. :twisted:

Since the whole title didn't quite fit into the subject line, let's try that again:

Wine Focus March 2023 - Benchmarks of Chenin Blanc: Vouvray/Montlouis

Here's a conundrum to conjure with: Why is one of the world's 10 most widely planted white grapes, capable of producing indisputably great sweet wines and excellent dry whites as well, often thought of as a mere "niche" grape, producing wines difficult to find in any but the most well-stocked wine shops ... at least where I live?

We're talking about Chenin Blanc, which may reach its zenith in the Loire Valley of France but is grown around the world. Chenin Blanc is the most widely planted grape in South Africa, where it's also known as Steen and is said to make up nearly one-third of the nation's plantings. It's popular in California, where Jancis Robinson says there's more of it grown than in France. South of the Equator, it's popular in Argentina and at least a niche player in Australia and New Zealand.

Perhaps Chenin Blanc's popularity doesn't match its acreage because a good deal of it is industrially grown and ends up in mass-market wines with no real varietal character. Still, Chenin Blanc tends to show some personality even in lackluster wines, in the form in tart, palate-cleansing acidity that makes it a useful player in improving anonymous jug-wine blends.

But taste a few really good Chenin Blancs, and chances are you'll become a convert. Better yet, Chenin makes delicious sweet wines, attention-getting dry wines, and luscious wines that fall in-between. We're looking for benchmarks, though, so for this month we're zeroing in on the Loire Valley and particularly on the wines of Vouvray and Montlouis, from the epicenter of the Loire Valley in Touraine, not far from the historic city of Tours.

Want to know more? Here's a good article on Vouvray and Montlouis from Decanter:
https://www.decanter.com/premium/vouvra ... re-481484/
Or just start opening bottles, tasting, and talking about it!
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Re: Wine Focus March 2023 - BenchmarkS of Chenin Blanc

by Rahsaan » Thu Mar 02, 2023 9:26 am

Robin Garr wrote:It's popular in California, where Jancis Robinson says there's more of it grown than in France... a useful player in improving anonymous jug-wine blends.


Wow, didn't know that. I guess that's because it doesn't show up as Chenin Blanc on the bottle, as you note. (Not that I have a comprehensive overview of CA wines in retail...)

As it happens, I took a bottle of 2021 Huet Le Haut Lieu Sec to a wine tasting with some friends this weekend. I wanted to taste the purported 'refreshment' of 21, and my friends didn't really know much about Vouvray, so I thought this would be a good accessible introduction.

Mission accomplished because it was accessible and impressive to them. They had loose associations with 'Vouvray' and 'sweet' but this had the lovely chalky tactile dry finish, with Huet elegance, which they all very much enjoyed. At the same time, the midpalate was pretty broad, ripe and full of sweet fruit.

LhL never has the energetic tension of Le Mont, but this was still perhaps a smidge broader and looser than my ideal. Maybe that will tighten over time. But if not, ideal is never necessary for wine enjoyment! And this was enjoyable...
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Re: Wine Focus March 2023 - Benchmarks of Chenin Blanc

by Robin Garr » Thu Mar 02, 2023 9:42 am

Thanks, Rahsaan. A fine way to kick off the month's conversation!
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Re: Wine Focus March 2023 - Benchmarks of Chenin Blanc

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Thu Mar 02, 2023 1:04 pm

Nice one Rahsaan. I have the 09 demi sec as well as the 05 Le Mont. Have to say that S Africa always features in my CB buying.....Spier, Bellingham, Badenhorst, Mullineux.
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Re: Wine Focus March 2023 - Benchmarks of Chenin Blanc

by Tim York » Thu Mar 02, 2023 4:52 pm

Bob Parsons Alberta wrote:Nice one Rahsaan. I have the 09 demi sec as well as the 05 Le Mont. Have to say that S Africa always features in my CB buying.....Spier, Bellingham, Badenhorst, Mullineux.


South African Chenin is conspicuous by its absence round here in rural France, though it can be obtained from web sellers if the order is sufficiently big to amortise the transport costs. I note that Mullineux is quite pricey, >€50 for some cuvées! So many people speak well of the South African version that I would love to form my own opinion.

Frankly I am unconvinced by Chenin based wines from elsewhere in France other than the Loire valley, where IMO it makes one of the world's best whites, dry, demi-sec and sweet. Here its is quite terroir sensitive, which rather different character in its main sub-regions, namely Anjou (Savennières, Coteaux du Layon, etc.), central Touraine (Vouvray, Montlouis, etc.) and the more northerly le Loir valley (Jasnières, Coteaux du Loir). A common theme of the best is sharp focus and bright minerality and acidity, even in the sweeties. However in recent warm vintages, I have wondered whether this theme is not weakening.

I still have several quite mature bottles from Huet, Foreau, Chidaine and Blot, so stay tuned. Let's hope that there is no premox which is not unknown :( in the Loire basin.
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Re: Wine Focus March 2023 - Benchmarks of Chenin Blanc

by Jenise » Sun Mar 05, 2023 1:50 pm

A friend opened this two weeks ago; he's a retailer so a knowledgeable person and he saved this one obviously expecting a big reward down the line. Didn't happen. His 2010 Guy Saget Vouvray Marie de Beauregard had a decayed pineapple nose rounded by age and too much RS. Just sat flat and sweet on the tongue.
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Re: Wine Focus March 2023 - Benchmarks of Chenin Blanc

by Rahsaan » Sun Mar 05, 2023 5:40 pm

Jenise wrote:A friend opened this two weeks ago; he's a retailer so a knowledgeable person and he saved this one obviously expecting a big reward down the line. Didn't happen. His 2010 Guy Saget Vouvray Marie de Beauregard had a decayed pineapple nose rounded by age and too much RS. Just sat flat and sweet on the tongue.


Machine-harvested negociant wine, from a company that makes wine up and down the Loire. Last I checked, their reputation was pretty weak among the wine geeks. Which would be consistent with your note. But, things can change, and who knows what direction the company is going in these days...
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Re: Wine Focus March 2023 - Benchmarks of Chenin Blanc

by David M. Bueker » Sun Mar 05, 2023 8:32 pm

Just opened a 2020 Extradimensional Wine Co Chenin. I am of course a Chenin skeptic, but this is quite interesting. Desperately needed air (smelled like reductive White Burgundy at first) but has really opened up.

More later.
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Re: Wine Focus March 2023 - Benchmarks of Chenin Blanc

by David M. Bueker » Sun Mar 05, 2023 9:09 pm

2020 Extradimensional Wine Co. Yeah! Chendawg II - USA, California (3/5/2023)
Opened about two hours prior to dinner, this desperately needed air. It had a significant matchstick reduction at first, to the point of almost seeming like Chardonnay! Time and some warming cleared up the reduction, and brought out a bright lemon cream and rainwater core, and lightning bolts of acidity scattered around the edges. As a Chenin skeptic I appreciated the focus and clarity of the wine, and the minimal textural thickness that I often associate with Chenin. Where I find Chenin to be a weight in the palate, this was levitating, energizing. After a full week of heavy (mentally and physically) tasks I was happy to experience some bottled sunshine.
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Re: Wine Focus March 2023 - Benchmarks of Chenin Blanc

by Peter May » Tue Mar 07, 2023 5:18 am

I'm glad Chenin is in this months spotlight. We don't drink much white wine and Mrs M likes NZ SB but I have a soft spot for Chenin. But I think South Africa (RSA) makes the best Chenin. They've been growing it since 1656 and make it in all possible styles, i.e. only not as a red wine!

RSA grow more Chenin than the rest of the world put together*.For centuries, through a naming mixup, it was known as Steen and only identified as Chenin in 1965, since then it is known as Chenin.

However, such is the repetition by online writers who have not been to RSA and are repeating what they've read that Chenin is known as Steen in RSA some SA producers (such as KWV) ship Chenin to the USA labelled as Steen, (tho' this may also to do with the poor reputation of Chenin in USA) and recently a few Afrikaner winemakers have 'reclaimed' the Steen name.

I'm currently in RSA and have a bottle of Wild Ferment Chenin I am looking forward to opening and posting about.

*I'll post the numbers when I can work out how to copy them from my PowerPoint presentation.
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Re: Wine Focus March 2023 - Benchmarks of Chenin Blanc

by Rahsaan » Tue Mar 07, 2023 10:10 am

Peter May wrote:I think South Africa (RSA) makes the best Chenin. They've been growing it since 1656 and make it in all possible styles, i.e. only not as a red wine!


Interesting. May not date back to the 12th century origins of Coulée de Serrant, but still pretty impressive.

Over the years, I've felt that South African wines would be promising for my palate, but hard to get a sense from so far away. And availability seems scattered. Anything in particular that makes you favor South African chenin over Loire chenin?

Locally, I see Testalonga Cortez Chenin Blanc available, which sounds good. Any views?
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Re: Wine Focus March 2023 - Benchmarks of Chenin Blanc

by Jenise » Tue Mar 07, 2023 10:55 am

Peter, I love SA Chenins. Best so far have been some of the single blocks from Mulderbosch as well as other Muldy products. Unfortunately, I can't get them. The winery has even put me in touch with their importer in California but she doesn't distribute anything beyond the basic level wines in my state, which I have never seen here despite that supposed fact. A shame.

Washington grows a little chenin but they're hard to come by.
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Re: Wine Focus March 2023 - Benchmarks of Chenin Blanc

by Peter May » Tue Mar 07, 2023 1:46 pm

OK, here are the stats I mentioned, first in acres then hectares. This is from a 2018 presentation so it is not correct to date, but it does give an idea of the amount of Chenin in RSA.
chenin-world-wide.PNG


The challenge with Chenin is the number of styles that are made confuses customers. South Africa's Chenin Blanc Association waned to categorise the style with a standard description that could be used on labels, similar to the sweetness gauge promoted by the International Riesling Foundation, but AFAIK this hasn't come into practice yet. The styles they identified were:

Fresh & fruity (less than  9 g/ℓ residual sugar)

Rich & ripe – unwooded (less than  9 g/ℓ residual sugar)

Rich & ripe – wooded (less than  9 g/ℓ residual sugar)

Rich & ripe – slightly sweet (between 9 and 30 g/ℓ residual sugar)

Sweet (more than 30 g/ℓ residual sugar)

Sparkling (Tank fermented or Cap Classique=methode champenoise)
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Re: Wine Focus March 2023 - Benchmarks of Chenin Blanc

by Jenise » Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:51 pm

Looking up something else on Wine Bid just now, I stumbled over some $450 chenins. Richard Leroy, who I have never heard of. Any relation to Madame Leroy of Burgundy?

https://www.winebid.com/BuyWine/Item/87 ... ontbenault
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Re: Wine Focus March 2023 - Benchmarks of Chenin Blanc

by Rahsaan » Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:35 am

I don't think so. He was a former banker who moved to the Loire in the 90s and started making low-sulfur/biodynamic wine. But they were not wild 'natural' wine stereotypes, always solid and delicious, if a bit uneven in the beginning (as one might expect).

I always enjoyed them, but never considered them as 'special' as some folks did. Now they have become cult wines that are so expensive and hard to find, so I guess it will be difficult for me to update my views!
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Re: Wine Focus March 2023 - Benchmarks of Chenin Blanc

by Tim York » Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:25 am

Rahsaan wrote:I don't think so. He was a former banker who moved to the Loire in the 90s and started making low-sulfur/biodynamic wine. But they were not wild 'natural' wine stereotypes, always solid and delicious, if a bit uneven in the beginning (as one might expect).

I always enjoyed them, but never considered them as 'special' as some folks did. Now they have become cult wines that are so expensive and hard to find, so I guess it will be difficult for me to update my views!


I've never had one of these but he is undoubtedly a serious vigneron with a solid reputation (** in RVF's guide). There is a French website offering current vintages for in the €50 and 70 range which is expensive for Loire chenin - about the same as Coulée de Serrant and the white Saumur from Thierry Germain but well above the €20-30 range for the likes of Chidaine, Huet and Foreau. This is still a ling way short of prices for top sites from Puligny-Montrachet, Chassagne-Montrachet and Meursault but the gap is closing slowly. :(
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Re: Wine Focus March 2023 - Benchmarks of Chenin Blanc

by Peter May » Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:48 am

We were on a wine tour along the Loire in 2014, starting at Sancerre.

loire-Evelyne-de-Pontbriand.jpg


At Domaine du Close owner/winemaker Evelyne de Pontbriand (above) walked us to her old Chenin blanc vineyard with 100 year old Chenin bush.vines.

Someone remarked that she must be able to make expressive Chenin from such vines. She gave him a withering look and said disdainfully that she didn't make Chenin from these vines - only Savennieres!

Afterwards we went back to the chateau for a tasting. I wasn't tempted to buy, and I can't recall that anyone else did.

Our last call was lunch and a tasting at Chateau de 1'Aulee near Azay le Rideau. They cocked up the catering but the wines were good, and I bought a couple of cases on the traditional method Chenin fizz.
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Re: Wine Focus March 2023 - Benchmarks of Chenin Blanc

by Rahsaan » Wed Mar 08, 2023 1:04 pm

Tim York wrote:There is a French website offering current vintages for in the €50 and 70 range which is expensive for Loire chenin - about the same as Coulée de Serrant and the white Saumur from Thierry Germain but well above the €20-30 range for the likes of Chidaine, Huet and Foreau. This is still a ling way short of prices for top sites from Puligny-Montrachet, Chassagne-Montrachet and Meursault but the gap is closing slowly. :(


Yes expensive, and I guess it would be more in the US. But not crazy prices, given all the other new expensive entrants. I guess it's more of an availability issue, as I don't see them at retail. Will keep a look out.
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Re: Wine Focus March 2023 - Benchmarks of Chenin Blanc

by Rahsaan » Wed Mar 08, 2023 1:06 pm

Peter May wrote:Afterwards we went back to the chateau for a tasting. I wasn't tempted to buy, and I can't recall that anyone else did..


Ha! So you didn't like the wines at all?

They've gone through many stylistic shifts over the years. Closel used to be cranky and backwards but starting in 2002 they got more modern and forward, perhaps too much so. Apparently in recent years they have reached a happy medium between those two extremes, although I haven't sampled much.

So much wine, so little time!
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Re: Wine Focus March 2023 - Benchmarks of Chenin Blanc

by Tim York » Wed Mar 08, 2023 1:20 pm

Rahsaan wrote:
Peter May wrote:Afterwards we went back to the chateau for a tasting. I wasn't tempted to buy, and I can't recall that anyone else did..


Ha! So you didn't like the wines at all?

They've gone through many stylistic shifts over the years. Closel used to be cranky and backwards but starting in 2002 they got more modern and forward, perhaps too much so. Apparently in recent years they have reached a happy medium between those two extremes, although I haven't sampled much.

So much wine, so little time!


I tasted the Closel Saviennières range at a mega tasting in the former Bourse de Paris palace, probably in 2016 or 2017. I thought the wines were good and Madame de Pontbriand an interesting and articulate vigneronne. I didn't buy any wine at that or any other Paris tastings because difficult logistics travelling home with many bottles on a crowded métro and mainline train. However, I might well if I see some sensibly priced at a caviste.
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Re: Wine Focus March 2023 - Benchmarks of Chenin Blanc

by Peter May » Thu Mar 09, 2023 5:22 am

I (and the rest of us) bought so much wine that our coach driver 'phoned head office in England asking for instructions as he thought the coach was overloaded. When the storage space was filled we put cases in the back of the caoach in aisles and on seats.

When the UK customs officer got the driver to open the hold, he took a quick look at the packed space and waved us through

There's so many styles along the Loire - including Sauvignon Blancs of Sancerre & Pouilly Fume, the Pinots, Cab Francs,Chenins (we didn't reach Muscadet).

But I didn't buy Closel and I don't think others did. I admired the owners and their intentions, but I didn't admire their wines they poured us to taste,
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Re: Wine Focus March 2023 - Benchmarks of Chenin Blanc

by Peter May » Sat Mar 11, 2023 5:47 am

Alvis-Drift-Chenin-2022-small.jpg


2022 Alvi's Drift Chenin Blanc (South Africa, Western Cape)

Chenin can make complex wines, but also, as here, enjoyable inexpensive wines that deliver more than expected. This wine cost R150 (7GBP, 8.20 USD) in a seafood restaurant It's fresh and dry, but with a rounded full body, yet on the tongue there's good acidity. Its not thin or washed out, but has liveliness

Wine Fact Sheet
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Re: Wine Focus March 2023 - Benchmarks of Chenin Blanc

by Jenise » Mon Mar 13, 2023 10:37 am

These showed up at our Loire Valley themed tasting lunch last week (notes by Bill Spohn):

2006 Domaine des Baumard Savennières Clos du Papillon – mid yellow with a slightly reductive lemon based nose, good balance.

1993 Domaine du Closel-Château des Vaults Savennières Clos du Papillon – I put this up as a sacrificial wine – one that I didn’t have great (grape?) expectations for but that might be interesting. It had been sound in 2017 when I lasted opened one. Darker colour, with a slightly oxidative nose of orange rind with hints of almonds, dry, smooth and balanced. A big but pleasant surprise. I leave these for around seven years until they come into focus but had never expected this sort of longevity. My last bottle.

2007 Domaine Huet Vouvray Sec Le Mont – I have a fondness for this reliable producer. Medium straw colour and a nose of wet stone and peaches and a long finish.

1995 Moulin Touchais Coteaux du Layon – these wines last decades! Golden yellow colour and an interesting nose of honeyed fruit with some added spice, more nutmeg than cinnamon. Excellent length, medium sweetness and a long off dry finish. Very good.
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Re: Wine Focus March 2023 - Benchmarks of Chenin Blanc

by Peter May » Thu Mar 16, 2023 12:49 pm

delheim-wild-ferment-chenin-2021.jpg


2021 Delheim Chenin Blanc Wild Ferment (South Africa, Stellenbosch)

I bought a bottle of the 2018 in the UK in 2020, was knocked out by it and most disappointed when I tried to order more that it had sold out. So I made sure to buy it from Delheim when I visited the wnery. But this wasn’t the same - at least it didn’t make the same impression on me. Nice enough, but without that extra something that initial 2018 had.

Made rom the estate's oldest Chenin, naturally fermented in barrels, aged 9 months on the lees then a further 12 months aging.

Complex, serious wine, maybe too subtle for me, but made a good match with takeway battered hake and chips overlooking False Bay, as below.

view-from-balcony-small.jpg
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