The place for all things wine, focused on serious wine discussions.

Wine Focus May 2023 - Benchmarks of Gamay

Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker

no avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Riesling Guru

Posts

34367

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Wine Focus May 2023 - Benchmarks of Gamay

by David M. Bueker » Sun Apr 30, 2023 6:49 pm

Along with Tempranillo, Gamay seems to be the only major red grape that has not established an alternative benchmark outside of its home base. Yes there are delicious exceptions (ESJ anyone!), but for the most part, Gamay=Beaujolais.

For gaMay, let’s explore that benchmark, and see if there are emerging benchmarks in other parts of the world.
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

Bob Parsons Alberta

Rank

aka Doris

Posts

10775

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:09 pm

Re: Wine Focus May 2023 - Benchmarks of Gamay

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Mon May 01, 2023 5:49 am

I have enjoyed some Gamays from Ontario, should check my notes. I always enjoy Malivoire espec. on day 2. I see 13th Street downtown as well.
no avatar
User

Tim York

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

4925

Joined

Tue May 09, 2006 2:48 pm

Location

near Lisieux, France

Re: Wine Focus May 2023 - Benchmarks of Gamay

by Tim York » Mon May 01, 2023 11:52 am

Bob Parsons Alberta wrote:I have enjoyed some Gamays from Ontario, should check my notes. I always enjoy Malivoire espec. on day 2. I see 13th Street downtown as well.


Ditto for Gamay from the Loire valley, especially from Touraine (e.g. Marionnet) and the upper Loire round Roanne (e.g. Pothiers). Gamay is also much planted in Savoie and I have had good ones from Switzerland.
Tim York
no avatar
User

Jenise

Rank

FLDG Dishwasher

Posts

42640

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:45 pm

Location

The Pacific Northest Westest

Re: Wine Focus May 2023 - Benchmarks of Gamay

by Jenise » Tue May 02, 2023 2:49 pm

B.C. has also made some really good gamays--Blue Mountain is the best I've had, but I'm sure there are others I haven't tried.
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
no avatar
User

Ted Richards

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

415

Joined

Wed Aug 06, 2008 2:00 pm

Location

Toronto, Canada

Re: Wine Focus May 2023 - Benchmarks of Gamay

by Ted Richards » Tue May 02, 2023 4:03 pm

Bob Parsons Alberta wrote:I have enjoyed some Gamays from Ontario, should check my notes. I always enjoy Malivoire espec. on day 2. I see 13th Street downtown as well.

Just yesterday, Thomas Bachelder released 9 different bottlings of 2021 Ontario Gamays. He's trying to do what he's done so well for Niagara Pinot Noir and Chardonnay (namely identify the individual vineyards, and sometimes individual parcels within those vineyards, that produce the best wines).

If you care, here's the list:
  • 2021 Bator Vineyard Gamay Noir-Pinot Noir PTLG
  • 2021 Bator Vineyard Gamay Noir 100% Destemmed
  • 2021 Bator Vineyard Gamay Noir 20% Whole Cluster
  • 2021 Willms Vineyard Gamay Noir 55% Whole Cluster
  • 2021 Bai Xu Vineyard Gamay Noir 32% Whole Cluster
  • 2021 Bai Xu Vineyard Gamay Noir 32% Whole Cluster, Amazing Ponzi Barrel [from one barrel purchased (empty) from the Ponzi winery in Oregon, not the Ponzi scheme]
  • 2021 Wiley Vineyard Gamay Noir 100% Destemmed
  • 2021 Wismer-Foxcroft Vineyard Gamay Noir 33% Whole Cluster
  • 2021 Les Villages Gamay Noir, Niagara [a cheaper blend of different vineyards]
I haven't bought any, because my cellar's overflowing and, besides, I'm not a great fan of Gamay. For a review. see https://winesinniagara.com/2023/05/the-story-of-the-amazing-ponzi-barrel-plus-pinots-and-chards/ or https://bachelderniagara.com/la-violette-2023/
no avatar
User

John S

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

1114

Joined

Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:12 am

Location

British Columbia

Re: Wine Focus May 2023 - Benchmarks of Gamay

by John S » Wed May 03, 2023 12:02 am

That's funny, I just opened a bottle of a 2019 Bachelder Gamay last night. I expected a bit more ripeness.

  • 2019 Bachelder Gamay Noir 22% Whole Cluster Wismer Foxcroft Vineyard - Canada, Ontario, Niagara Peninsula, Twenty Mile Bench VQA (2023-05-02)
    Very pale in colour, quite pinot-like. There is pomegranate and light cherry on the nose. These continue on the palate, which is light to medium but intense due to the high acidity. The acidity is a bit too much for me and battles with the fruit. it is certainly an interesting and unique wine, but doesn't taste anything like Beaujolais (not that that's a bad thing). I don't think this was flawed, but it was somewhat disjointed and unbalanced.
no avatar
User

Tim York

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

4925

Joined

Tue May 09, 2006 2:48 pm

Location

near Lisieux, France

Re: Wine Focus May 2023 - Benchmarks of Gamay

by Tim York » Thu May 04, 2023 6:37 am

We quite often have <€10 Beaujolais or Touraine Gamay on our dinner table. This bottle with a cru label is not the best of its kind but it is a very acceptable tipple at that price point. There are more ambitious and pricey Beaujolais around, e.g. from Lapierre, Foillard, Chermette, Brun....., which show more complexity and age-worthiness. I hope to open one later this month.

2021 Mommessin Saint-Amour Grand Caractère - France, Burgundy, Beaujolais, Saint-Amour (03/05/2023)
This is robust savoury fruited and quite earthy Beaujolais. It is not very refined (hints of that muddy dog aroma so common a generation or so ago) but enjoyable and worth considering for repurchase at c.€9. Almost good.
Posted from CellarTracker
Tim York
no avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Riesling Guru

Posts

34367

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: Wine Focus May 2023 - Benchmarks of Gamay

by David M. Bueker » Thu May 04, 2023 7:59 am

Almost good is a fantastic "rating." Next level down is slightly bad? ;)
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

Tim York

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

4925

Joined

Tue May 09, 2006 2:48 pm

Location

near Lisieux, France

Re: Wine Focus May 2023 - Benchmarks of Gamay

by Tim York » Thu May 04, 2023 12:26 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:Almost good is a fantastic "rating." Next level down is slightly bad? ;)


Fair and mediocre are the next rungs down! :lol:
Tim York
no avatar
User

Tim York

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

4925

Joined

Tue May 09, 2006 2:48 pm

Location

near Lisieux, France

Re: Wine Focus May 2023 - Benchmarks of Gamay

by Tim York » Tue May 09, 2023 10:51 am

My first acquaintance with Chermette's range occurred at a superb tasting attended by growers of similar calibre and even more famous in the monumental surroundings at the Brussels Beaux Arts museum some 15+ years ago. Ever since then I have stretched for his bottles whenever I see them at sensible prices. Mostly I have enjoyed them a lot, including the same Fleurie Les Garants, but this 2016 has remained uncharacteristically stern.

2016 Pierre-Marie Chermette Fleurie Les Garants - France, Burgundy, Beaujolais, Fleurie (08/05/2023)
I found my two previous bottles of this (the last 4 years ago) somewhat severe and inexpressive, so I held back this last bottle until now in the hope that it would open up and acquire the charm of so many of its forebears. Well, it has opened slightly but still remains very serious. The nose is still quite restrained but shows some fine berry fruit (quite a bit of griotte cherry) and flinty minerals which follow through onto the medium bodied and linear shaped palate. The texture is quite delicate and the acidity still lively but there is not a lot of firmness in the quite long finish. Good though in a still rather severe vein.
Posted from CellarTracker
Tim York
no avatar
User

Tim York

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

4925

Joined

Tue May 09, 2006 2:48 pm

Location

near Lisieux, France

Re: Wine Focus May 2023 - Benchmarks of Gamay

by Tim York » Wed May 10, 2023 1:46 pm

When I saw this on the shelves at a local supermarket (Expert Club is a selection of their in-house oenologist) for €3-4, I thought it worth a whirl and it works. As a bonus, it is popular with my wife and daughter.

2021 Gamay Côtes du Tarn IGP La Croix du Pin – Expert Club
This is quite light in colour and body and simplistic but full of refreshing savoury tinged fruit, an earthy touch and a quite firm but slightly rustic finish. This will be a great alterative to rosé for serving with al fresco summer dishes.
Tim York
no avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Riesling Guru

Posts

34367

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: Wine Focus May 2023 - Benchmarks of Gamay

by David M. Bueker » Thu May 11, 2023 10:26 am

Wow - excellent value!
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Riesling Guru

Posts

34367

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: Wine Focus May 2023 - Benchmarks of Gamay

by David M. Bueker » Thu May 11, 2023 6:53 pm

2020 Château Thivin Côte de Brouilly Cuvée La Chapelle - France, Burgundy, Beaujolais, Côte de Brouilly (5/11/2023)
When did they move Thivin to Napa Valley? This is actually thick, like a wine picked uber-late to increase concentration. Black cherry Jolly Rancher flavors, and a strange combination of alcoholic heat, fresh struck match and citrus rind acidity combine on the finish. I don’t really like it, but I can’t stop sipping on it as I try to figure out what the hell is going on!
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

Robin Garr

Rank

Forum Janitor

Posts

21623

Joined

Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:44 pm

Location

Louisville, KY

Re: Wine Focus May 2023 - Benchmarks of Gamay

by Robin Garr » Fri May 12, 2023 9:26 am

I didn't have particularly high expectations for this modestly priced Beaujolais-Villages, but it dramatically exceeded thim. No bananas, no tutti-frutti, no artificial strawberry extract, just subtle, defined strawberries and black plums with floral notes and stony minerality. That's a lot to like for $11 to $15, depending on your market.

Château de Varennes 2020 Beaujolais-Villages ($10.99)

Château de Varennes Beaujolais-Villages, 100% Gamay from Burgundy producer Albert Bichot, shows a pretty dark-cherry color with a thin, clear edge. Its appealing aroma melds subtle strawberries and black plums with hints of wildflowers and stony minerality, all carrying over into a bright, briskly acidic flavor. The label indicates 14% alcohol, but the wine carries it well. Soft tannins leave a touch of astringency as plum flavors take the lead in a very long finish. U.S. importer: Albert Bichot USA LLC, Henrico, Va. (May 10, 2023)

FOOD MATCH: Producer Albert Bichot suggests cold cuts, Italian dishes or savory tarts; Wine-Searcher.com suggests pairing it with duck, goose and game birds. We enjoyed it with pasta with a tomato-based sauce.

WHEN TO DRINK: The producer recommends drinking it within three years of the vintage, which suggests the 2020 ought to be drunk up now. In my judgement, though, it's showing very well. I wouldn't cellar it any longer, but I wouldn't panic about finishing it up, either. Enjoy it this year.

VALUE:
I got an exceptional local price: $11 for this wine that shows a $16 average U.S. retail on Wine-Searcher.com. Even at a mid-teens price point, though, it's a very good value.

WEB LINK:
Here's a detailed fact sheet on this wine in English from producer Albert Bichot.

FIND THIS WINE ONLINE:
Check prices and find vendors for Château de Varennes Beaujolais-Villages on Wine-Searcher.com.

Follow this Wine-Searcher link to read more about Beaujolais-Villages and browse listings for dozens of wines of the region.

Learn more about Gamay and look for wines made from this variety at this Wine-Searcher link.
no avatar
User

Jenise

Rank

FLDG Dishwasher

Posts

42640

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:45 pm

Location

The Pacific Northest Westest

Re: Wine Focus May 2023 - Benchmarks of Gamay

by Jenise » Tue May 16, 2023 2:13 pm

Last night we had Steak with an oyster sauce and snow pea/water chestnut stir fry, outside on the patio on a hot summer night. Gamay was a perfect choice:

2018 Coudert Fleurie Clos de la Roilette Gamay
Last of my three bottles, and maybe the only one I actually enjoyed. The wine is fairly restrained compared to where it had been and even shows some savory character. Most notably, it's lost the overtly ripe watermelon candy notes.
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
no avatar
User

Tim York

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

4925

Joined

Tue May 09, 2006 2:48 pm

Location

near Lisieux, France

Re: Wine Focus May 2023 - Benchmarks of Gamay

by Tim York » Thu May 18, 2023 1:56 pm

We drink a lot of Beaujolais and Gamay de Touraine. I bought a few more bottles of Regnié and Beaujolais Villages this afternoon at a nominally cheese fair from the stand of a previously unknown producer, Domaine Jean-Michel Gaudet. My simple criterion for selecting a stand for tasting where all producers are unfamiliar is "do I like the look of the people in charge?". These were a kind and serious looking couple of mature age and I liked their sensibly priced wines.

Last night we paired our dinner with a Gamay de Touraine from Henry Marionnet, a very reliable source. If I can make a crude generalisation, I would say that the Touraine examples tend to be brighter and more lightly textured than most Beaujolais, particularly the crus, but I have yet to have one with the depth, complexity and subtlety of the best Beaujolais from the likes of Lapierre, Foillard, Chermette and Brun.

2021 Domaine de la Charmoise Touraine Première Vendange - France, Loire Valley, Touraine (17/05/2023)
I'm glad to say that I enjoyed my second bottle more than the first. The usual charm of this bottling was now there in addition to the lively fruit, minerals and fine sprinkling of spice. A few extra months may have been beneficial but I think it was mainly a pairing effect; this time a fish pie with capers to add some sharpness, which acted as a good foil for the wine bringing out some extra fragrance. Good.
Posted from CellarTracker
Tim York
no avatar
User

Paul Winalski

Rank

Wok Wielder

Posts

8030

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:16 pm

Location

Merrimack, New Hampshire

Re: Wine Focus May 2023 - Benchmarks of Gamay

by Paul Winalski » Thu May 18, 2023 1:59 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:Almost good is a fantastic "rating." Next level down is slightly bad?


"Almost good" corresponds to a Shemp in the Three Stooges rating system.

Next level down from "almost good" would be "mostly harmless." :wink:

-Paul W.
no avatar
User

John S

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

1114

Joined

Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:12 am

Location

British Columbia

Re: Wine Focus May 2023 - Benchmarks of Gamay

by John S » Sun May 21, 2023 3:52 pm

  • 2017 Marcel Lapierre Morgon - France, Burgundy, Beaujolais, Morgon (2023-05-17)
    A fairly deep ruby in colour, with a blast of red fruit (mainly cherry) and some baking spices on the comforting nose. Another blast of red cherries on the medium bodied, smooth palate, with some earthy/mushroom notes and spices as well. Somewhat low acid, but still balanced, and with a few ripe tannins too. Not the most complex wine, but high on the tasty scale. No rush. (A-)
no avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Riesling Guru

Posts

34367

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: Wine Focus May 2023 - Benchmarks of Gamay

by David M. Bueker » Sun May 21, 2023 4:05 pm

2019 Coudert Fleurie Clos de la Roilette - France, Burgundy, Beaujolais, Fleurie (5/21/2023)
Normally a wine I am very fond of, this isn’t doing it for me. It’s very simple, had candy cherry flavors, and while the balance and lift are both good it just feels like it has training wheels. It’s too one note/basic. Maybe some time…
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

Robin Garr

Rank

Forum Janitor

Posts

21623

Joined

Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:44 pm

Location

Louisville, KY

Re: Wine Focus May 2023 - Benchmarks of Gamay

by Robin Garr » Sat May 27, 2023 2:12 pm

I'll say this about the May topic: I ended up sampling just two Gamays this month, and both were absofreakinlutely delicious. Previously Chateau de Varennes Beaujolais-Villages, and now this treat:

Maison l'Envoyé 2020 Moulin-à-Vent "Terre de Thé" ($19.99)

Maison L'Envoye Moulin-à-Vent 'Terre de Thé" shows a beautiful dark purplish color in the glass, with bright ruby glints against the light. Aromas of delicious red cherry and black plum fill the nose and spill over into a fresh, medium-bodied flavor framed by mouth-watering acidity and soft, palatable tannins. Bright cherry fruit and a subtle impression of chalky minerality linger on the palate with a whiff of spice in in a clean, lingering finish. 13.5% alcohol. U.S. importer: Old Bridge Cellars, Napa, Calif. (May 24, 2023)

FOOD MATCH: The kinship of Beaujolais with Burgundy begins to show as versatile food-friendliness in these top bottles from named villages. The Moulin-à-Vent page on the Beaujolais.com website suggests pairing good Moulin-à-Vent wines with rabbit in mustard sauce, veal kidneys or stuffed turkey, adding that veggie lovers will enjoy them with eggplant, whether in lasagna, au gratin, cake or fritters. We enjoyed it with a hearty Italian-American bean-and-tomato stew bulked up with Beyond Steak Tips and spiced with Calabrian chile peppers.

WHEN TO DRINK: These bigger, brawnier Beaujolais, particularly from hillside vineyards in the north of the region like Moulin-à-Vent, can benefit from cellaring. The producer suggests drinking it between now and 2027.

VALUE:
My local price matches Wine-Searcher.com's $21 average U.S. retail. This excellent wine is a good bargain near or even several dollars above this price point.

WEB LINK:
The back label QR code leads to this informative fact sheet in English on the Maison l'Envoyé page.

FIND THIS WINE ONLINE:
Check prices and find vendors for Maison L'Envoye Moulin-à-Vent "Terre de Thé" on Wine-Searcher.com.

Learn more about Moulin-à-Vent and browse dozens of wines from the region at this Wine-Searcher link.

Follow this Wine-Searcher link to read about the Gamay grape and fine links to scores of wines made with this variety.
no avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Riesling Guru

Posts

34367

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: Wine Focus May 2023 - Benchmarks of Gamay

by David M. Bueker » Tue May 30, 2023 8:52 pm

I know I haven’t helped much, but I am surprised that Gamay didn’t gain much traction.
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

Robin Garr

Rank

Forum Janitor

Posts

21623

Joined

Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:44 pm

Location

Louisville, KY

Re: Wine Focus May 2023 - Benchmarks of Gamay

by Robin Garr » Tue May 30, 2023 8:57 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:I know I haven’t helped much, but I am surprised that Gamay didn’t gain much traction.

Well, only had two, but I loved them both.
no avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Riesling Guru

Posts

34367

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: Wine Focus May 2023 - Benchmarks of Gamay

by David M. Bueker » Thu Jun 01, 2023 9:31 am

I tried to have one last night, but it was corked.
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

Robin Garr

Rank

Forum Janitor

Posts

21623

Joined

Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:44 pm

Location

Louisville, KY

Re: Wine Focus May 2023 - Benchmarks of Gamay

by Robin Garr » Thu Jun 01, 2023 5:28 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:I tried to have one last night, but it was corked.


:cry: :cry: :cry: :twisted:

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AhrefsBot, ByteSpider, ClaudeBot, MSN [Bot] and 5 guests

Powered by phpBB ® | phpBB3 Style by KomiDesign