Rumblings on wine - long and potentially controversial

If I wasn't so obsessed with wine I would be obsessed with something else. I have an obsessive personality (as I bet many of us do) and that is goin gto get fed one way or another.

I can definitely relate. I also understand how it is to be so passionately, intensely focused and consumed by one's favourite hobby.
In all likelihood I've mentioned this before, but it's gotten to the point where I can hardly walk or drive past an open field and not dream for a moment about what grape varieties I'd plant there and in what direction I'd orient the rows ...

To follow up on previous threads abotu friendships, wine has contributed to a lot of good times recently.

I tend to be very solitary, almost antisocial-especially on weekends. With my relatively recent obsession, and disinterest, frankly, in drinking alone, this hobby has led to me hosting and co-hosting far more parties and social events than I used to. So-on one hand there is the money and the alcohol and the calories, but on the other hand, I'm more sociable, which is good. And, I would certainly be overspending on other things, anyway. At least wine is to be shared.

I overbought last decade and have been in the "cellar bursting" mode for all of the 2000s so far. Given the hideous pricing of European wines due to the weak dollar, I haven't bought anything aggressively for the past 6 years.

So I guess this is what happens when one gets old. Excuse me while I ignore the current offerings and enjoy my Bordeaux from 1982-1989 and Burgundies and Rhones from the 1990s.

-Paul W.

There are two camps and they are both heavily armed with verbal and written barbs. Nothing good comes from the pejorative arguments about wine styles.

I agree on everything else, but beg to qualify this point. There aren't just two camps, there's a third one, of which I consider myself a member, and I think we are not a minute minority: it's the camp of those of us who can really appreciate a delicate Federspiel GV from Wachau and a wild and exuberant monastrell from Jumilla.

Many of us in that camp belong to that double allegiance club, Burgundy/Rhône, pinot/syrah, which to me has always been a great school of broadmindedness. The 'vive la différence' school - and also a school that rejects the blatant bad faith shown by the taliban-like members of the other two camps.

And, as SFJoe rightly points out, one of the main qualities a wine lover should have is the ability to differentiate between the natural, real virtues of a wine and the masking traits added to it by abusive technical manipulation a.k.a. spoofulation.

[David M. Bueker]

I overbought last decade and have been in the "cellar bursting" mode for all of the 2000s so far. Given the hideous pricing of European wines due to the weak dollar, I haven't bought anything aggressively for the past 6 years.

So I guess this is what happens when one gets old. Excuse me while I ignore the current offerings and enjoy my Bordeaux from 1982-1989 and Burgundies and Rhones from the 1990s.

-Paul W.

I've overbought as well, but I'm just young enough that I missed the great '80s vintages and 1990, so I'm still waiting for the wines to mature.

To continue on my last post: What was the last vintage were proper Kabinetts were made? 1996? I'm sure that some producers have made Kabs that taste like Kabs since then, but who would these be and what wines and in what vintages?

Also, it seems like I've offended dozens with my TNs. Sorry. I'll try to moderate my narrowminded musings to more positive aspects. Not all of us have as wide tastes as e.g. VS does.

[David M. Bueker]

To continue on my last post: What was the last vintage were proper Kabinetts were made? 1996? I'm sure that some producers have made Kabs that taste like Kabs since then, but who would these be and what wines and in what vintages?

Also, it seems like I've offended dozens with my TNs. Sorry. I'll try to moderate my narrowminded musings to more positive aspects. Not all of us have as wide tastes as e.g. VS does.

Otto,

First of all you have not offended. How I wish to characterize wine and how you wish to do it are our own personal issues. I may prefer a different style, but that's just me (same as with the wines themselves). I think that there are problems on both sides of the debate about modern/traditional, new world/old world, etc. You posted a note about a Cape Mentelle wine that I thought captured a very good way to discuss wines that are not to an individual's taste.

As for kabinett - 1997 made many proper kabinetts, as did 1998. 2000 did, but great care is required, as many wines were affected by less than noble rot. 2002 and 2004 have many examples of fine kabinett. It's bigger than normal, but still recognizable as kabinett. One strategy that has served me well is to go for kabinett halbtrocken bottlings. In 2004 (and virtually every other year) Selbach-Oster made a Zeltinger Himmelreich Riesling Kabinett Halbtrocken that is just to die for. There's all the kabinett delicacy, but still enough substance that it's a useful table wine. Schafer-Frohlich also made a kabinett halbtrocken in 2004, but just to be tricky (at least in the USA) the wine is just labelled QbA Halbtrocken. I purchased case volumes of both, and I am beginning ot run out. I hear the 2005s of both are still quite "normal" so I may seek them out. Spreitzer in the Rheingau also makes outstanding kabinett halbtrocken, and I have to also recommend the 2004 Lingenfelder Grosskarlbacher Burgweg Scheurebe Kabinett Halbtrocken. That's enough for a start.

So I guess this is what happens when one gets old. Excuse me while I ignore the current offerings and enjoy my Bordeaux from 1982-1989 and Burgundies and Rhones from the 1990s.

-Paul W.

You couldn't do much better than '82-'89 Bordeaux.

I first got really interested in wine when the '88-90 Bdx were on the shelve, but on a budget I mostly bought "lesser" wines, and almost all of them have gone to the great recycling bin in the sky. I've rebought a few that I really loved, but its very hard to pay $75 for something you remember buying at $15-20. But there have been enough wines produced since that my cellar is more than overflowing.

Otto, I can't say that your notes have ever offended me (though I have disagreed with claims of spoofiness in wines tht I thought were just naturally ripe or where some new oak was historic), and hope they keep coming. My main objection re polarization is when people denigrate those who like a wine they don't, or question the validity of their taste. I have no problem with you or SFJoe or anyone else not liking a wine (and saying it forcefully). What I object to is when people raise their view on a wine to a universal absolute, and then insult or vilify those that disagree. I used to respect Parker for the intro he put in WA (I assume still there, haven't subscribed in years) that "ultimately you need to taste for yourself and decide." But recently it seems whenever someone disagrees with him, he says they either can't taste or are corrupt. And his most vociferous followers are even more extreme. On the other end there are people who assert anyone who likes the 2003 Pavie is either incapable of tasting, or a blind points follower who can't taste for themselves (I haven't had, but am not anxious to based on the '98 & '00). My objection isn't to the opinions of the wines, but the demonizing of those that feel differently. I taste with folks who love superripe oaky wines, and those that abhor them - sometimes at same time. We generally disagree jovially. But something about electronic communication seems to make things more barbed (or maybe it's just these people, as the worst offenders aren't mostly folks I know in person). To me others' taste preferences in wine aren't any different than their gender preferences, sports team favorites, or choice in pets- immaterial to whether I respect them.

[David M. Bueker]

Victor,

I agree with you. Fair point that I missed. And Dale captured the issue better than I did in his response now. It's more the way people react to notes than the notes themselves. It's not personal, it's strictly wine.

Not shockingly, it's Jim Cowan who captures what I consider to be an appropriate response. His variations on "impressive, but I have no use for it" are much more in the community spirit than most responses within the debate. Steve Tanzer once sid something similar in a note for a Thackrey wine when he said "Fans of this style (and you know who you are) will appreciate this wine more than I."

David, thanks for the Kab reccoes. We've had a bad situation on Germany and Loire especially and all the Kabs we've recently gotten were 2003 Trockens! As you might guess, a Kab with 14% abv isn't perhaps a wine most to my taste.... But I love the style so I'm thinking of making an order from somewhere unmonopolised Europe after summer, so the names are very useful.

Also David and Dale, I'm happy I haven't offended you two with my notes (and I hope I've offended anyone else either), yet I still find that I should change the way I write about wines I don't like. I have always taken it for granted that tasting wine is an extremely individualistic process. Therefore I've always thought that notes, a priori, will be utterly individualistic. From this stance - which I thought was taken for granted - I thought I could write an utterly subjective note saying exactly what I felt about the wine without it being read as denigrating the taste of others'. I see now that I was rather naive.

-Otto-

I agree on everything else, but beg to qualify this point. There aren't just two camps, there's a third one, of which I consider myself a member, and I think we are not a minute minority: it's the camp of those of us who can really appreciate a delicate Federspiel GV from Wachau and a wild and exuberant monastrell from Jumilla.

Agree completely. It's the other two camps that cause the hysteria.