The place for all things wine, focused on serious wine discussions.

WTN: Southern Italy (Aglianico, Primitivo, Negroamaro, Nero)

Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker

no avatar
User

Saina

Rank

Musaroholic

Posts

3976

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:07 pm

Location

Helsinki, Finland

WTN: Southern Italy (Aglianico, Primitivo, Negroamaro, Nero)

by Saina » Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:53 pm

Campania & Basilicata

Galardi: Terra di Lavoro 2002 Roccamonfina IGT (Agl 80 + Piedirosso 20) 13% abv

A rather lovely nose of tomato and rust - rustic and leathery and doesn't seem like something that Riccardo Cotarella would make. The palate had lovely acidity, much tannins and was funky and mineral - all was just lovely except that the aftertaste was much too short.

Mastroberardino: Naturalis Historia 2000 Irpinia IGT (Agl 85 + Piedirosso 15) 14%

Bluberry-oak nose. The palate was much better with attractive red toned fruit, moderately high acidity, quite a bit of tannin and a slightly funky aspect to the fruit. "International", anonymous nose that lacked personality; nice palate.

Feudi di San Gregorio Serpico 2000 Irpinia IGT (Agl 100) 13%

Dark toned fruit, sweet, even a bit cola-like. The palate was very fruity and too sweet but did have nice acidity. It came more balanced with time but still seemed too ripe and too "modern" styled.

Mastroberardino: Taurasi Radici 2003 Taurasi DOC (Agl 100) 13%

The nose is a bit roasted and raisiny. The palate is a bit hollow and simplistic but does have nice structure - for the year that is.

Az. Agr. Eubea: Roinos Aglianico del Vulture 2003 Agl del Vul DOC (Agl 100) 14,5%

Cola and confection on the nose; cola and confection and oak and supreme sweetness on the palate. Shudder.

Puglia

Az. Agr. Conti Zecca: Nero 2001 Rosso del Salento IGT (Negroamaro 70 + CS 30) 13%

Dark toned and oaky nose but with some savoury, herbal nuances also. The palate had some lovely bitter fruit, but like the nose was smothered in oak.

La Corte: Re 2001 Salento IGT (Negroamaro 65 + Primitivo 35) 14,5%

Apparently Chris Ringland of 3 Rivers fame consults here. It is sweet, soft, international in style with just a touch of savouriness and tannins which keep it within the limits that I am able to suffer through a tiny tasting sample.

Fusione: Prima Mano 2003 (Prim 100) 14,5%

It smells more like apple-jam than wine. The palate is thick and sweet yet surprisingly has refreshing structure for the year. Far from a catastrophe and pleasantly personal, but still not really a wine I would buy for myself.

Sicilia

Planeta: Santa Cecilia 1999 Rosso di Sicilia IGT (Nero d'Avola 100) 14%

Red toned, lifted and earthy nose - refreshing yet abundantly fruity, a bit rustic. The palate is sweet and big, fruity, but a touch rustic and nicely acidic for a hot climate wine. I rather enjoyed it.

Casa Vinicola Firriato: Harmonium Nero d'Avola 2003 15%

Polished & modern. Very forgettable but very competently made.

Cusumano: Noà 2000 (Nero 40 + M 30 + CS 30) 15,5%

Smells like Amarone: raisiny, sickly sweet and alcoholic. Not really my type of stuff but competently made for sure.

Obligatory blind wines

Robert Biale Appellation Series Zinfandel 1999 14,9%

A nose of apples and red berries and white flowers - very sweet but surprisingly I rather liked it despite it lacking in the savoury notes. The palate was big and sweet and had adequate structure and though the alcohol was a little noticable it didn't destroy the experience for me: this was rather pleasant. I haven't said this about many Zinfandels.

Anima Negra: Àn Negra 2004 Falanis, Baleares (Callet + Mantonegro + Fogoneu) 14%

My first wine from the Canary Islands and my first time with these three grape varieties. Alas, it smells of Barrique and is sickly sweet and unctuously floral. The palate is quite a bit better because it has nice acidity to counter the confected fruit. It is a little hot, though, and the barrique is all too obvious.

Anima Negrea: Son Negre 2004 Falanis, Baleares (Callet + Fogoneu) 14%

Lighter colour than the previous, but it still tastes and smells like Barrique. It's a shame to have a wine from an interesting area and totally new grapes to me that smells so international and lacks personality. Both were very well made if you like the "modern" style, but I just don't get the point - sorry to be so blunt.

It was a fascinating tasting - so much new stuff for me! :)

-O-
I don't drink wine because of religious reasons ... only for other reasons.
no avatar
User

Bob Parsons Alberta

Rank

aka Doris

Posts

10775

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:09 pm

Re: WTN: Southern Italy (Aglianico, Primitivo, Negroamaro, Nero)

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:43 pm

Otto, nice tasting. Biale makes some monster Zin. Planeta is rather international in my books...ooops here come the emails!!!!
no avatar
User

Ian Sutton

Rank

Spanna in the works

Posts

2558

Joined

Sun Apr 09, 2006 2:10 pm

Location

Norwich, UK

Re: WTN: Southern Italy (Aglianico, Primitivo, Negroamaro, Nero)

by Ian Sutton » Fri Jun 29, 2007 3:43 pm

I get the feeling there are probably a few too many 'internationally styled' wines for Otto's palate at these events. They seem to lay on plenty of big names (certainly impressive line-ups at each tasting), but I reckon there's others from these regions that would be more in line with Otto's preferences (and cheaper as well for our favourite student :wink: ).

I had expected you to have trouble with the Feudi, with perhaps the Mastroberardino Radici Taurasi more in line - perhaps worth trying another vintage? (though I do personally struggle with Taurasi, which can be very angular - I really do need to try some older bottles :idea: and haven't given up on it yet).

anyway, great notes as ever

regards

Ian
no avatar
User

Saina

Rank

Musaroholic

Posts

3976

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:07 pm

Location

Helsinki, Finland

Re: WTN: Southern Italy (Aglianico, Primitivo, Negroamaro, N

by Saina » Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:25 pm

Ian Sutton wrote:I get the feeling there are probably a few too many 'internationally styled' wines for Otto's palate at these events. They seem to lay on plenty of big names (certainly impressive line-ups at each tasting), but I reckon there's others from these regions that would be more in line with Otto's preferences (and cheaper as well for our favourite student :wink: ).


This is indeed something I have often lamented. I have tried to correct the situation by trying to arrange tastings of good, unmanipulative producers (and cheaper also), but I have never managed to get enough interested people together for such.

I had expected you to have trouble with the Feudi, with perhaps the Mastroberardino Radici Taurasi more in line - perhaps worth trying another vintage? (though I do personally struggle with Taurasi, which can be very angular - I really do need to try some older bottles :idea: and haven't given up on it yet).


The Radici did indeed seem less manipulative than some others, and was surely marked by the hot year in ways I don't like. I'm hoping we'll see the '04 soon as I would very much like to try it in a cooler year. It's strange you haven't liked Taurasi - I've often though Aglianicos in general act a bit like Nebbiolo (which I remember you seem to like) when young. I've never had an older one unfortunately. Do they age as well as Nebbiolos as well?

-O-
I don't drink wine because of religious reasons ... only for other reasons.
no avatar
User

Ian Sutton

Rank

Spanna in the works

Posts

2558

Joined

Sun Apr 09, 2006 2:10 pm

Location

Norwich, UK

Re: WTN: Southern Italy (Aglianico, Primitivo, Negroamaro, N

by Ian Sutton » Fri Jun 29, 2007 6:36 pm

Otto Nieminen wrote:This is indeed something I have often lamented. I have tried to correct the situation by trying to arrange tastings of good, unmanipulative producers (and cheaper also), but I have never managed to get enough interested people together for such.
-O-

But maybe a tasting of good ordinary wines is less appealing to some - they want special wines. To me it feels like a shame to do a focused tasting and not really get to the core of the region's wine psyche - a bit like doing a whirlwind tour of a country's 'must see' sites, or spending a week in a small town, sampling and observing a different way of life.
no avatar
User

Ian Sutton

Rank

Spanna in the works

Posts

2558

Joined

Sun Apr 09, 2006 2:10 pm

Location

Norwich, UK

Re: WTN: Southern Italy (Aglianico, Primitivo, Negroamaro, N

by Ian Sutton » Fri Jun 29, 2007 6:42 pm

Otto Nieminen wrote:The Radici did indeed seem less manipulative than some others, and was surely marked by the hot year in ways I don't like. I'm hoping we'll see the '04 soon as I would very much like to try it in a cooler year. It's strange you haven't liked Taurasi - I've often though Aglianicos in general act a bit like Nebbiolo (which I remember you seem to like) when young. I've never had an older one unfortunately. Do they age as well as Nebbiolos as well?

-O-


I'm told they mature well, but they really can be pretty brutal and (cover your eyes Otto :wink: ) fruitless when I've tasted them young. They also seem to lack the Nebbiolo fragrance - but again this may just be a feature of the wine when young. I guess the problem, is unlike Nebbiolo, you just don't see aged examples around. Having said this I skipped bidding on some 1987 Mastroberardino Taurasi at auction recently, as although I'd like to try an older one, I don't want 10 or 11 bottles based on blind faith and hope alone! Definitely soemthing I'm keeping my eye open for though and there's a wine shop in Turin, that when we go back next, might well have a bottle or two with age on it.
no avatar
User

Saina

Rank

Musaroholic

Posts

3976

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:07 pm

Location

Helsinki, Finland

Re: WTN: Southern Italy (Aglianico, Primitivo, Negroamaro, N

by Saina » Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:37 pm

Ian Sutton wrote:But maybe a tasting of good ordinary wines is less appealing to some - they want special wines.


What could be more special that a wine that tastes natural and unmanipulated?
I don't drink wine because of religious reasons ... only for other reasons.
no avatar
User

Ian Sutton

Rank

Spanna in the works

Posts

2558

Joined

Sun Apr 09, 2006 2:10 pm

Location

Norwich, UK

Re: WTN: Southern Italy (Aglianico, Primitivo, Negroamaro, N

by Ian Sutton » Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:43 pm

Otto Nieminen wrote:
Ian Sutton wrote:But maybe a tasting of good ordinary wines is less appealing to some - they want special wines.


What could be more special that a wine that tastes natural and unmanipulated?

:lol:

There certainly is a risk with the wines aiming at being 'special' that if they all aim at a similar style, then they pretty soon lose their appeal. I love the variety in wine, but also being able to grab a bottle that has a fair chance of hitting my mood. Sometimes that mood is for a big, structured wine with great depth of fruit. Other times the mood demands something subtle or even ethereal. Sometimes I feel lucky, other times I want the safest of safe bets. Sometimes (occasionally :oops: ) I get it right :wink:

regards

Ian
no avatar
User

Bob Parsons Alberta

Rank

aka Doris

Posts

10775

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:09 pm

Re: WTN: Southern Italy (Aglianico, Primitivo, Negroamaro, Nero)

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:44 am

Mastroberardino......some wines have just shown up here in town after a mysterious absence! Think I might look into the 2 whites on offer, any comments from anyone?
no avatar
User

Ian Sutton

Rank

Spanna in the works

Posts

2558

Joined

Sun Apr 09, 2006 2:10 pm

Location

Norwich, UK

Re: WTN: Southern Italy (Aglianico, Primitivo, Negroamaro, Nero)

by Ian Sutton » Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:40 pm

Bob
Go for it - they've got a good reputation and are fairly typical, rather than international.
I keep meaning to try the Radici white, as it sounds good.

regards

Ian
no avatar
User

Mark S

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

1174

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:28 pm

Location

CNY

Re: WTN: Southern Italy

by Mark S » Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:24 pm

Otto Nieminen wrote:Anima Negrea: Son Negre 2004 Falanis, Baleares (Callet + Fogoneu) 14%

Lighter colour than the previous, but it still tastes and smells like Barrique. It's a shame to have a wine from an interesting area and totally new grapes to me that smells so international and lacks personality. Both were very well made if you like the "modern" style, but I just don't get the point - sorry to be so blunt.


I had this Spanish beauty in an earlier incarnation (1999, I think) and found it less international, more sauvage along the lines of a wine from SW France or maybe Corsica, fruit and leather-fileld but rough-hewn. It's too bad the change in years is not auld lang syne.

Best,

mark S
no avatar
User

Clinton Macsherry

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

354

Joined

Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:50 pm

Location

Baltimore MD

Re: WTN: Southern Italy (Aglianico, Primitivo, Negroamaro, N

by Clinton Macsherry » Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:38 pm

Otto Nieminen wrote:I've often though Aglianicos in general act a bit like Nebbiolo (which I remember you seem to like) when young. I've never had an older one unfortunately. Do they age as well as Nebbiolos as well?

-O-


Otto--

I think there are some marked similarities, and indeed Aglianico is sometimes called "the Nebbiolo of the South." Both are late-ripening and frequently have tarry/savory/earthy elements that overshadow fruit. But even though I'm a lousy blind taster, I've never had one that would strike me as indistinguishable from the other. (Not that anybody would want such a thing.) Much as I love Aglianico, I have yet to encounter one with the perfume of a Barolo or Barbaresco.

As to aging, I don't think conventional wisdom holds that Aglianico matches the lengthy lifespan of Nebbiolo. If I recall correctly, the World Atlas puts top Aglianico in the 15-20 year range.

But I quote Dale Williams from a note he posted in September this year:

"1968 Mastroberardino Taurasi Riserva
A light lifted note on nose, fragrant, young. Despite its age this is still powerful and vibrant, dried cherry fruit and leather, going strong. Amazing wine. A"
FEAR THE TURTLE ! ! !
no avatar
User

Michael Malinoski

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

889

Joined

Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:11 pm

Location

Sudbury, MA

Re: WTN: Southern Italy (Aglianico, Primitivo, Negroamaro, Nero)

by Michael Malinoski » Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:29 pm

Otto Nieminen wrote:Campania & Basilicata

Galardi: Terra di Lavoro 2002 Roccamonfina IGT (Agl 80 + Piedirosso 20) 13% abv

A rather lovely nose of tomato and rust - rustic and leathery and doesn't seem like something that Riccardo Cotarella would make. The palate had lovely acidity, much tannins and was funky and mineral - all was just lovely except that the aftertaste was much too short.

Mastroberardino: Naturalis Historia 2000 Irpinia IGT (Agl 85 + Piedirosso 15) 14%

Bluberry-oak nose. The palate was much better with attractive red toned fruit, moderately high acidity, quite a bit of tannin and a slightly funky aspect to the fruit. "International", anonymous nose that lacked personality; nice palate.

Mastroberardino: Taurasi Radici 2003 Taurasi DOC (Agl 100) 13%

The nose is a bit roasted and raisiny. The palate is a bit hollow and simplistic but does have nice structure - for the year that is.

-O-


Otto, these 3 in particular caught my attention. My wife and I had a pleasant tour of the Mastroberardino facility about 6 years ago--we picked up the 1997 Naturalis Historia for what now seems like pennies. That puppy is still tight and tannic and I plan to wait at least another 5 years on the last bottle.

As for the 2000 Taurasi Radici, I found the vintage to be surprisingly accessible, esp. when you consider that bottles from '95, for example, are nowhere near ready for my palate. Here is a note I had from a tre bicchieri tasting back in May:

2000 Mastroberardino Taurasi Radici Having had a large number of vintages of this wine in the past, I was moderately surprised how accessible this was right now. It has an open nose of roses and other flowers. It is tangy with red fruits in the mouth. Tannins are manageable. A very nice wine at a fair price. I bought some.

Finally, that 2002 Galardi is quite a wild ride, eh? First time I had it, I hated it and the second time I loved it--all within the same calendar year! Here, from Dec 2006:

2002 Fattoria Galardi Terra di Lavoro. Wow, talk about a tale of two bottles. A month earlier, I had this wine (blind) and it was unrelentingly strange and difficult to like. Now, after getting a second crack at it, I have to believe the first one was somehow an “off” bottle, because this was spectacular.

Here was my note from that tasting on Sep 16th: The nose has strong aromas of creosote, fresh tar and something like lava. With time, it also takes on some single malt scotch notes, with peat moss, soot and liquid minerals. It’s a very complex expression of some terroir but it’s so dark and primordial that it seems to lack a sense of charm. The wine in the mouth is rather backward, as well, with a tight tannic backbone and very big tannins over a large structure featuring brooding black fruit, bittersweet chocolate, mineral and grilled meat flavors. Whatever this is, it might be ready to drink in about 15-20 years.

In comparison in December: This has a wonderful, rich nose of different red and dark berry fruit, tar oil, dark volcanic earth and graphite. Texturally, this is just uber-dense, totally plush, with a low-acid, chewy mouthfeel and flavors of blackberry, crushed raspberry and something evoking black rocks. There is excellent depth you can get lost in. But, as before, it is clear that this needs a pretty fair amount of time in the cellar to show its best—time which should be very good to this wine.

Frankly, I'd like another crack at it some time in the future.

-Michael
no avatar
User

Bob Parsons Alberta

Rank

aka Doris

Posts

10775

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:09 pm

Re: WTN: Southern Italy (Aglianico, Primitivo, Negroamaro, Nero)

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:00 pm

Mastroberardino Taurasi Radici....Michael, I have just seen the `97 and `99 for under $50 Cdn. The Historia is on the shelf too!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AhrefsBot, ClaudeBot and 2 guests

Powered by phpBB ® | phpBB3 Style by KomiDesign