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Is It Just Me?

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Thomas

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Re: Is It Just Me?

by Thomas » Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:01 am

Clint Hall wrote:But by golly I never called my readers stupid.


Never? Not even in private? ;)

I have to admit, one particular guy truly taxed my sense of personal survival. His agenda completely clouded his reading abilities, but that wasn't what got to me--it was that he called my column inane, and he didn't even see the contradiction in calling inane something that managed to raise his hairs.

Someday, I'll submit a list of what my readers have called me over the years.
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Re: Is It Just Me?

by James Roscoe » Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:11 am

Thomas wrote:Someday, I'll submit a list of what my readers have called me over the years.

Heck, those are just the ones who write in. You should hear what the rest of your readers say about you..... :roll: :P
Yes, and how many deaths will it take 'til he knows
That too many people have died?
The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind
The answer is blowin' in the wind.
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Re: Is It Just Me?

by wnissen » Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:57 am

Dear Isaac,

No response from the editor of the wine section yet? I was kind of hoping for a quick apology.

Walt
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Re: Is It Just Me?

by Isaac » Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:04 pm

So was I, but, so far, nothing.

I did get another response from the writer, though. Very sarcastic, mentioning the "rich stream of revenue that flows from people in Oregon reading the paper for free on the Internet", and how I was henceforth the sole arbiter of what everything he writes means.

It's starting to feel like arguing with a middle schooler, and I've decided to let it drop, barring a response from the editor.
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Re: Is It Just Me?

by Max Hauser » Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:30 pm

I'll play devil's advocate here (not an unfamiliar role) and keep in mind I haven't read the original article (which is unusual, since I read that section regularly, on paper -- I get the Friday SF Chronicle specifically for that reason, among other specific newspaper issues that have weekly food and wine sections).

1. FYI, the Chronicle's wine editor (Jon Bonné) is sensible and intelligent (and not just because he prints my letters :wink: ).

2. Whatever arguments one might have with the piece's content (I have had those myself, most recently on the history of wine newsletters), it should be said that the letter's opening sentence above, "Seems to me you have nearly everything backwards," could provoke defensiveness, independent of the substance that follows it. I have not seen the full correspondence (obviously) but maybe it just got off on the wrong tack?

Keep in mind the observation by people who studied Internet "flame wars" that they generally begin as reactions, not actions. (Someone reads something into a posting, gets annoyed, responds sharply, and the flame is lit.)

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Gary Barlettano

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Re: Is It Just Me?

by Gary Barlettano » Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:16 pm

Bob Henrick wrote:Thomas, Hedges has a wine that they call CMS and those letters stand for cabernet/merlot/syrah, and it is almost always a worthwhile wine.


I got some of that in my closet/cellar 'ceptin' mine is a white CMS, i.e. Chardonnay (44%), Marsanne (2%), and Sauvignon Blanc (54%). It cost between seven and eight bucks and makes a refreshing summer slurper.
And now what?
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Re: Is It Just Me?

by Bob Henrick » Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:31 pm

Don't you just love finding a wine that good for that amount of $$? I recently bought a bottle of Ch. Ste Michelle 2004 Sb for $7.99. went back today for 4 more bottles. Identical to a very nice white bdx in my opinion.
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Re: Is It Just Me?

by Thomas » Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:10 pm

Isaac wrote:So was I, but, so far, nothing.

I did get another response from the writer, though. Very sarcastic, mentioning the "rich stream of revenue that flows from people in Oregon reading the paper for free on the Internet", and how I was henceforth the sole arbiter of what everything he writes means.

It's starting to feel like arguing with a middle schooler, and I've decided to let it drop, barring a response from the editor.


This writer sounds like he might need professional help, and I don't mean with his writing.
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Re: Is It Just Me?

by Gary Barlettano » Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:45 pm

Bob Henrick wrote:Don't you just love finding a wine that good for that amount of $$? I recently bought a bottle of Ch. Ste Michelle 2004 Sb for $7.99. went back today for 4 more bottles. Identical to a very nice white bdx in my opinion.


For the variety of tasty QPR's which I would have otherwise not discovered ... that's why I stay in this wine club which a local wine merchant runs. There are three levels at three different price points. I'm on the "skinflint level." It costs me 50 bucks for three months which includes six bottles of wine.

What he does is host these pick-up parties where you can select your wines, eat a lot of good munchies, and b.s. with other winos. He sets up about 10-12 wines on the "skinflint (lowest) level" for us cheapskates and the same number on the "somewhat niggardly, but not overly so (middle) level," and then around six or so in the "I got bucks (highest) level." We get to try through all the wines and buy them at the club discount regardless of our level, but we also get to take two bottles home from the selection for our particular category. We're not stuck with a narrow choice. That makes six bottles in three months for 50 smackers. Most of the wines retail at between $18 and $24 so it's not a bad deal, especially since I get my dinner there, too.
And now what?
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Re: Is It Just Me?

by Ed Draves » Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:41 am

Isaac wrote:So was I, but, so far, nothing.

I did get another response from the writer, though. Very sarcastic, mentioning the "rich stream of revenue that flows from people in Oregon reading the paper for free on the Internet", and how I was henceforth the sole arbiter of what everything he writes means.

It's starting to feel like arguing with a middle schooler, and I've decided to let it drop, barring a response from the editor.

You might be onto something. It makes more sense to me that the emails you were sent were from an disinterested intern opening his e-mail and filtering out spam or perhaps one of his children or one of his children's friends. I'm pretty sure it could not be from a person with a career. The editor's response will surly be an apology.
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Re: Is It Just Me?

by Isaac » Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:24 pm

A surly apology? :wink:
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Re: Is It Just Me?

by wnissen » Fri Jul 27, 2007 6:03 pm

Surly this is coincidence, but Mr. Gray is leaving the Chronicle:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=5&entry_id=18894

No details, just a statement:
We wish you all the best in your future endeavors. It's been a lot of fun and we'll truly miss you. Bon voyage!

That's right, folks, wine writer W. Blake Gray is bidding The Chronicle and this podcast goodbye.


Gosh, Isaac, I guess you finally pushed him over the edge.

Walt
Last edited by wnissen on Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is It Just Me?

by Hoke » Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:16 pm

I don't think Gray will be missed. Certainly won't be by me.

He has modest writing skills and a contentious personality--as evidenced by his going out of his way to insult someone who was corresponding with him.

Hard to trust a guy who signs himself with first initial/middle name, anyway. :)
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Re: Is It Just Me?

by Isaac » Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:29 pm

Sometimes it's hard to do otherwise, Hoke.

It's taken me years to becomne Isaac instead of Andy, based on my middle name, Andrew. I'm still Andy when I go home to visit.
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Re: Is It Just Me?

by wnissen » Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:32 pm

Or maybe it's people who use the initial "W"...

I'm starting to wonder who hires people for the Chronicle food and wine section. Gray's spoofulated prose is certainly a problem. I've met someone who regularly freelances for them, and the guy behaved like a first-class dick.

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Re: Is It Just Me?

by Gary Barlettano » Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:34 pm

Hoke wrote:Hard to trust a guy who signs himself with first initial/middle name, anyway. :)


You mean you wouldn't trust J. Edgar Hoover or P. Diddy Combs!? :shock:

Blake and I exchanged a few e-mails over the last couple of years. In fact, he responded each and every time I commented on his column which surprised me. He was nice enough, even when I disagreed with him. From my limited perspective, his exchange with Isaac seems out of character, but we all do odd things sometimes.
And now what?
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Re: Is It Just Me?

by Hoke » Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:42 pm

Likewise, Isaac.

My first name---and still at times what I think of as my 'non-family' or professional name---is one of those handed-down-in-the-family-from-generation-to-generation. When I was growing up my Great Uncle Hoke was "the" Hoke, and everyone in the family called me by my middle name. Only strangers and officials called me Hoke, and it sounded strange to me when they did, for I didn't think of myself as that person. That was my Uncle!

But it was a signal to me that the person who was addressing me wasn't a family or friend, but an outsider.

Only a few people in my close family still call me by my middle name, but when I run into a cousin I haven't seen for a while (I'm not close to many people in my family) they'll still call me by my middle name.

What I was referring to earlier, though, Isaac, was not the middle name. It was that particular....and I think peculiar...habit of using the first initial/middle name. The "W. Blake Gray". It's odd to me: he is signalling that he goes by the name of Blake, and thinks of himself as "Blake", but still goes to the extra specific effort of putting the W. in front of it...but not dignifying, or even clarifying, what the W. stands for. Why? Is he ashamed of it? Does he not like it? Then why doesn't he just stop using it? Why not just "Blake Gray"?

To me it's studied. And pretentious. And I suspect it's some sort of attempt at calling for attention, a "look at me, look at me" kinda thing.

Take you: I didn't know you were conflicted in any way with your name. To me, you are Isaac. You don't sign yourself as I. Andrew Whatever. (Thereby forcing me to wonder what the hell the "I." stands for. :) ) You could just as easily call yourself Andrew or Andy.
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Re: Is It Just Me?

by Hoke » Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:46 pm

wnissen wrote:Or maybe it's people who use the initial "W"...

I'm starting to wonder who hires people for the Chronicle food and wine section. Gray's spoofulated prose is certainly a problem. I've met someone who regularly freelances for them, and the guy behaved like a first-class dick.

Walt


Oh, I've had issues in the past with the Chron's choices for writers (and topics) as well, Walt. (Or is that "W"? :D )

One early one, Carol whatshername, was an absolute disaster.

I've met Jon Bonne, and he is a very serious and focused man. It will be interesting to see which way he drives things with the Chron Wine Section.

The best aspect of the Wine section right now---the best writing, and the most consistent----isn't even a wine writer. It's the Cheese writer. She is incredibly good. Heck, I'd read the section just for her alone.
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Re: Is It Just Me?

by James Roscoe » Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:38 pm

You are the one and only Hoke to me. :D
Yes, and how many deaths will it take 'til he knows
That too many people have died?
The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind
The answer is blowin' in the wind.
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Re: Is It Just Me?

by Brian K Miller » Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:35 am

I love the cheese column, too. I don't mind some of the wine writing, though. The stars ratings are at least a beginning point, and the descriptions are not overly floral.
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Re: Is It Just Me?

by Bob Henrick » Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:09 pm

Andy/Isaac, names are a funny thing aren't they. I grew up with the name Bobbie, yes with an IE, a girls spelling. We will never know how that spelling got on the birth certificate, but it did. Growing up to maybe the age of 12, I was Bobby with everyone including my family. When I entered the USAF as a young man, I became Bob. Somehow when I came to Kentucky, I reverted back to Bobby, and carried that for a long long time. I am now retired and working part time and at almost 69 years of age, I am now Bob again. :-)
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Cut Him Some Slack...

by TomHill » Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:47 pm

Jon Peterson wrote:One way to deal with the problem is by cutting the well regarded (read: well paid) writing staff and bringing on newbies. Papers all over are doing it as you all know. I no longer recognize ½ the writers of Washington Post stories. I'd be curious to know if this writer is new.
If not, then it still stands that no paper can afford writers that respond to feedback as this writer did.


I think he's been writing for the Chron for 2-3-4 yrs now. So he's not a newbie. I have, by and large, liked the articles he writes for the Chron. This one, however, was not one of his better ones. But every writer writes, from time to time, an article that could be considered vapid. Not every one can be profound and insightful.
However, his response to you was uncalled for and ineptly defensive. When I receive a response like that from someone, I just slough it off. Maybe the guy was just hit w/ divorce papers. Maybe his Mom just died. Maybe his pet rat just left him to go cook in some famous restaurant. You never know what might be going on in his life to trigger such an obnoxious response.
He's a goner now, so the issue is kinda moot.
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Re: Is It Just Me?

by Max Hauser » Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:08 pm

wnissen wrote:...I've met someone who regularly freelances for them, and the guy behaved like a first-class dick.
That's actually not so unusual. Normally we know writers only through their writing and do not see other sides of their personalities. (On another forum, someone who bartended at a particular venue and got to know many US food writers offered summary appraisals, some positive, some not.)

Hoke wrote:What I was referring to earlier, though, Isaac, was not the middle name. It was that particular....and I think peculiar...habit of using the first initial/middle name. The "W. Blake Gray". It's odd to me ... To me it's studied. And pretentious. And I suspect it's some sort of attempt at calling for attention, a "look at me, look at me" kinda thing.
The practice actually is very traditional in the US (colloquially "parting your name on the side") among people who happen to be known by (or just prefer) their second name, but who want to give the whole thing. Men and women both.
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Re: Is It Just Me?

by Kyrstyn Kralovec » Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:23 pm

Max Hauser wrote:
wnissen
[quote="Hoke wrote:
What I was referring to earlier, though, Isaac, was not the middle name. It was that particular....and I think peculiar...habit of using the first initial/middle name. The "W. Blake Gray". It's odd to me ... To me it's studied. And pretentious. And I suspect it's some sort of attempt at calling for attention, a "look at me, look at me" kinda thing.
The practice actually is very traditional in the US (colloquially "parting your name on the side") among people who happen to be known by (or just prefer) their second name, but who want to give the whole thing. Men and women both.


Yep, my full name is Mary Kyrstyn, but I've never gone by Mary except for legal purposes. When I'm engaged in some sort of transaction where I have provided the other party w/ my first and last name for legal/financial purposes, but want them to refer to me in correspondence by my "usual" name, I'll sometimes put M. Kyrstyn so that they hopefully realize I'm the same person. It does feel kind of pretentious to me, though.
I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine. ~John Galt
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