Founded by the late Daniel Rogov, welcoming foodies to discuss the dining scenes in Israel and abroad, along with all things related to kosher food.
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Daniel Rogov

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Re: Is Paris Burning? The End of a Civilization?

by Daniel Rogov » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:00 pm

Indeed I enjoy La Tartine but my favorite port of call for wine bars in recent years has been Caves Petrissans, 30 bis Avenue Niel, Paris 17.

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Shel T

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Re: Is Paris Burning? The End of a Civilization?

by Shel T » Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:26 pm

Just a comment--am also 'enjoying' the exchanges which have somewhat the flavor and inscrutibility of Alice in Wonderland...
Methinks Francois doth protest too much about American cooking, ingredients and production methods and its alleged influence on the poor, misinformed, maltreated French, who as you pointed out, Daniel, are not being 'forced' to enter the neighborhood Mc'D's.
Sandwiches can be and should be a separate art form, and great ones can be found in practically any country along with ones not fit for the foraging rats.
BTW the Earl of Sandwich according to 'best evidence' did consume something approximating a sandwich while engaged at gambling and also at his desk. Interesting that he's far better known for this than his contributions to politics or to Captain Cook.
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Francois de Melogue

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Re: Is Paris Burning? The End of a Civilization?

by Francois de Melogue » Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:44 pm

oh, it isn't a French thing. I am for less globalization and more for regionality... both in my food and my politics. The joy of travelling elsewhere is to enjoy what the region offers. I really do not want crab cakes in Paris no matter how good Guy Savoy makes them... I will get better crab cakes at a fish shack along the East Coast. I also am in the small class of folks that wants a real lunch whether it be doro wat from an Ethiopian or coq au vin from a Frenchy. I am not into sandwiches as meal substitutes - though I too enjoy a sandwich from time to time. This is nothing elitist only a preference. Also, I do not cast my lot with French people. I cast my lot with like minded people who see the world in the same view as I do, whether they be Palestinian, Chinese, Ras Tafarian, Nor Cal surfer dudes or from the moon. I grew up with French parents and a French lifestyle in America. Perhaps the France I know and love may be my mother's version of it (1950's France). So, when I travel to France... and I am going soon! I will not, do not want and certainly will not buy an Americanized sandwich in any form. I may buy a baguette, some terrine and a jar of Dijon mustard and make a sandwich to appease my appetite while shooting thru the countryside on a high speed TGV. But aside from that I will eat what I term is real food. If anyone, French or not, wants to eat McCrap god bless! You will never see me there! And that is not to say that a good burger isn't a worthy thing! That is to say that I do not support CAFO's, Monsanto and DuPont engineered crops and the chemicalized food that McCrap creates in labratories. I cast my lot with those that still believe in non chemicallized food prepared in more traditional methods served with a bottle of wine!

PEACE OUT YO'

Grimod at the winery!!!
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Daniel Rogov

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Re: Is Paris Burning? The End of a Civilization?

by Daniel Rogov » Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:10 pm

Shel T wrote:,,, the Earl of Sandwich according to 'best evidence' did consume something approximating a sandwich while engaged at gambling and also at his desk. Interesting that he's far better known for this than his contributions to politics or to Captain Cook.


Shel, Hi.....

You and I seem to agree on many things but on this one the "best evidence" simply is not "best enough". My own research shows rather clearly to the opposite....



One of the most charming characters in culinary history was John
Montague, the 4th Earl of Sandwich. It is known that after the
Earl retired from a glorious naval career (among other things, he
is credited with having discovered the Hawaiian Islands), he de-
voted most of his life to playing cards. It is said that he was
so addicted to the pleasures of gambling that he refused to leave
the gaming table even for meals. According to a well believed
story, it was this habit that led the Earl to teach his servants
how to put meat, cheese or other ingredients between two slices of
bread and thus created "the sandwich".

This may make for a great story, but the realities of the Earl's
life tell us that it could not possibly have been true. Due to a
severe wound incurred during a naval battle when he was only 17
years old the Earl had a gastro-intestinal disorder that allowed
him to subsist only on liquids. The Earl could not have eaten a
sandwich even if he had wanted to.

There is, however remote it may be, a possibility that the Earl
actually did contribute to the popularity in England of the creation
that even today carries his name. In 1748, the Earl visited
France, there to discover that French landowners were responsible
by law for providing their field workers with a noontime meal.
Because it was convenient for everybody, the most common meal sent
out to the fields was made by placing meat, potatoes, vegetables
and sauce between two thick slices of bread. Some speculate that
the Earl was so impressed by the economy of such meals that on his
return to England he began to feed them to his own workers.

The sandwich (of which I can be a great fan when it is raised to high culinary levels) may carry his name but the chance is that the Earl never had the opportuinity of dining on one.

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Shel T

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Re: Is Paris Burning? The End of a Civilization?

by Shel T » Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:12 pm

Re the Earl of Sandwich not having the opportunity to eat a sandwich, poor dude, gotta feel sorry for the guy--kinda like Count Zeppelin not having the opportunity to fly on the Hindenburg!
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Re: Is Paris Burning? The End of a Civilization?

by Charlie Dawg » Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:22 pm

Daniel Rogov wrote:Actually though, I am more of an optimist than the above may make me seem. I do believe that many, esepcially of the younger genertions who travel to Europe have a thirst for knowledge and culture and altough their budgets may limit them to croques monsieurs and sandwich jambom, they have a true lust for the true "tastes" of the countries they visit.

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Rogo



Gosh, I hope you are right and I am wrong.
You are what you eat.
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Carl Eppig

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Re: Is Paris Burning? The End of a Civilization?

by Carl Eppig » Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:25 pm

Don't understand what's "news" here unless it it the kind of sandwiches rather than just sandwiches in general. When we lived in France for a couple of years over forty years ago, you could get a sandwich anywhere. We loved the ubiquitious sandwich jambon and sandwich pate.
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Bobby S

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Re: Is Paris Burning? The End of a Civilization?

by Bobby S » Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:16 pm

No doubt the USA's greatest influence on food around the world has been in developing technology that, since the McCormick reaper, has allowed people to get more and more food per acre with less and less labor, thereby relieving hunger on a massive scale unprecedented in history. This happened very directly as a result of capitalism, and we shouldn't let bizarre stories like the one about Monsanto getting a patent for a strain of rice take away from the overall picture. A lot of people in the world would either be dead, hungry, or tied to a life of drudgery if it weren't for the American influence on food.

Some people will hear this argument and immediately go into reactionary mode, but let's be fair and face the facts. The USA has done a lot to make Malthus look foolish.
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Daniel Rogov

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Re: Is Paris Burning? The End of a Civilization?

by Daniel Rogov » Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:18 pm

Bobby S wrote:A lot of people in the world would either be dead, hungry, or tied to a life of drudgery if it weren't for the American influence on food. Some people will hear this argument and immediately go into reactionary mode, but let's be fair and face the facts. The USA has done a lot to make Malthus look foolish.



Amen to that, brother!!!!! Its sort of "fun" to knock the USA but we do tend to forget rather easily that that country has done some very good things as well. Sorry to agree with Robespierre, but indeed "you cannot make an omelet without breaking eggs"

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