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Watched an interview with Alice Waters yesterday...

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Watched an interview with Alice Waters yesterday...

by Jenise » Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:05 pm

...and she was going on about her Edible Schoolyard project which, per her daughter Fanny who was also present, is pretty much all Alice thinks or talks about these days. She's consumed by this mission, which is a cool thing. But one thing she said stood out to me--she claimed that 85% of children these days do not eat even one communal family meal each day. And one of the fallouts of that is that kids aren't growing up with the reflexive table manners needed in a polite society like asking for someone to pass the peas and even knowing which direction to pass things once they come to you.

And that really hit me, because I'm so often in group dining situations where I see evidence of this very thing. And at several ages, too; it's not just younger people.

I grew up in a family of six and we were often seven, with a grandmother. We had dinner together every night and occasionally breakfast, though most midday meals we were on our own. At the dinner table, which was rectangular, passing food was imperative and so was passing all food the same direction, clockwise, to prevent bottlenecks.

Oops...cat emergency. Must run, will continue later.
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Re: Watched an interview with Alice Waters yesterday...

by Peter May » Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:39 pm

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Re: Watched an interview with Alice Waters yesterday...

by Jenise » Tue Oct 20, 2015 6:43 pm

Okay, cat's now in the hospital. :(

Picking up where I left off, I was going to say that in comparison to my experience with a family of six, my husband grew up in a family of four who sat at a table for same so nothing had to be passed--you just reached across the table for whatever you wanted. Now he's not at all a self-absorbed kind of guy, but nonetheless he can appear so as when we have company and I serve family style (not often, but occasionally, I do favor plating in the kitchen) he sometimes forgets to pass things on that are passed to him--and he'll pass in whatever direction's handiest. He often helps himself and then just sets the item down--the habits of childhood unbroken in the man even after nearly 30 years with a fastidious pass-lefter.

And I see the same patterns in friends when we entertain. Most who grew up in large families are accustomed to passing. Those who didn't, and those who didn't grow up eating with a family--not so much. While intending no rudeness whatsoever, they're less inclined to pass, less inclined to wait until the host is seated before picking up a fork, more inclined to take a larger portion than 1/4 or 1/6th where the second number represents the number of people at the table, more inclined to cherry-pick a platter that's passed to them for the biggest or best-looking piece (where I was trained to simply take that which is closest to me, period, unless one is meant to choose between rare and medium, say, and more apt to be the fastest eater.

So what Alice said rang pretty true to me. There's more to eating at home than nutrition and stability, though those are huge and by far the most important. The dinner table is also a little training ground for a lot of situations one will encounter later in life.

Thoughts, anyone?
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
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Re: Watched an interview with Alice Waters yesterday...

by Jenise » Tue Oct 20, 2015 6:45 pm

Peter May wrote:Talking of table manners...

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle ... -switching


That's pretty interesting!

You know what, while living in England I tried for awhile to adopt the English style of eating but just couldn't make it a habit. It was forced and unnatural, and no matter what I intended at the beginning of the meal when it came time to cut a piece of meat, I'd revert.
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Re: Watched an interview with Alice Waters yesterday...

by Jeff Grossman » Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:11 pm

Jenise wrote:
Peter May wrote:Talking of table manners...

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle ... -switching


That's pretty interesting!

You know what, while living in England I tried for awhile to adopt the English style of eating? Couldn't make it a habit. It was forced and unnatural, and no matter what I intended at the beginning of the meal when it came time to cut a piece of meat, I'd revert.

I was taught cut-and-switch but it's silly and I don't do it anymore.
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Re: Watched an interview with Alice Waters yesterday...

by Jeff Grossman » Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:14 pm

I'm with hubby: family of four, table small enough to reach the middle from every seat, etc. I was taught 'one cuts, the other chooses' so I make sure portions are all appealing.

I'll have to pay attention at dinner tables with co-workers as to whether I see the same effect.
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Re: Watched an interview with Alice Waters yesterday...

by Peter May » Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:33 am

Jenise wrote:
Thoughts, anyone?


I have none, it's outside my experience.

Both of us grew up in families where food was plated in the kitchen, we've always done it, our friends do it, restaurants do it, unless its silver service, or you get individual side plates to serve yourself from.

If I go to a place with communal bowls of food in the middle, as I have once or twice when abroad, I didn't realise there are any 'rules'. As I recall, the host or cook managed the passing of the platters, ensuring everyone has acces to what they want. I do know not to hog all of something, or to take the last piece without asking.
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Re: Watched an interview with Alice Waters yesterday...

by Jeff Grossman » Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:13 am

Jenise wrote:... more inclined to take a larger portion than 1/4 or 1/6th where the second number represents the number of people at the table,...

I just remembered the episode of The Mary Tyler Moore Show where Mary throws a dinner party for 6, she prepares a fancy main course (Veal Oscar?), and Mr. Grant, announcing how hungry he is, sits down and takes half of it.
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Re: Watched an interview with Alice Waters yesterday...

by Jenise » Wed Oct 21, 2015 2:26 pm

Jeff Grossman/NYC wrote:
Jenise wrote:... more inclined to take a larger portion than 1/4 or 1/6th where the second number represents the number of people at the table,...

I just remembered the episode of The Mary Tyler Moore Show where Mary throws a dinner party for 6, she prepares a fancy main course (Veal Oscar?), and Mr. Grant, announcing how hungry he is, sits down and takes half of it.


Ha ha! I can picture that. Mr. Grant was the character played by Ed Asner, right? Nothing like that has ever quite happened at my dinner table. thank god, but I see it at the wine tastings I do all the time. That is, I watch some guy who's maybe at the third table which means three more tables of people (8-10 each) still have to get served, and there's a platter with ten items left on it and he helps himself to three of them.

That kind of thing absolutely makes me nuts. I remember being a kid and watching my dad burn over such things and moaning to myself, embarrassed, "oh pulleeze, it's not a big deal". But now I'm his age and it's a big deal. :)
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Re: Watched an interview with Alice Waters yesterday...

by Robin Garr » Wed Oct 21, 2015 2:37 pm

Never mind Alice! I hope the kitty is okay!
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Re: Watched an interview with Alice Waters yesterday...

by Jenise » Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:07 pm

Robin, thanks. Most likely she has pancreatitis, or maybe an even a more-involved triaditis (pancreatitis caused by Irritable Bowel Syndrome). We did not know exactly that she had this, but last March she just went flat and quit eating, and over the period of a week we ran two grand worth of tests that led to know answers except to usefully rule out a lot of big-ticket stuff, and then suddenly she perked up. Had been fine until a week ago Sunday when we found her in the hallway screaming in pain while trying to pass a turd. It happened again last Thursday, so we made dietary changes, which we thought was helping until the third and worst time occurred yesterday morning so off we went to the hospital. She's very anemic, another sign of the aforesaid disease, and in fact so is this whole episode when viewed as a flare-up vs. an independent incident. She's home now but on morphine so that she doesn't lose her appetite while the antibiotic and anti-inflammatory take effect. This, apparently, will be typical of the rest of her life.
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Re: Watched an interview with Alice Waters yesterday...

by Jeff Grossman » Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:34 pm

Jenise wrote:Ha ha! I can picture that. Mr. Grant was the character played by Ed Asner, right?

Yes.

Did some Googling... The dish was Veal Prince Orloff. Vid here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6DtLRJlEiQ
Skip to 21:40 for the scene.
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Re: Watched an interview with Alice Waters yesterday...

by Jenise » Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:56 am

Jeff, that was hilarious--watched the whole episode. I've so been there! But the funniest part was Sue Ann's clueless timing and, well before that, Ted Baxter's begging to be invited. I don't know the actor's name, but he played what might be the best buffoon ever seen on TV.
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Re: Watched an interview with Alice Waters yesterday...

by Jeff Grossman » Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:22 pm

Jenise wrote:Jeff, that was hilarious--watched the whole episode. I've so been there! But the funniest part was Sue Ann's clueless timing and, well before that, Ted Baxter's begging to be invited. I don't know the actor's name, but he played what might be the best buffoon ever seen on TV.

They were quite the ensemble.

"Ted Baxter" was played by Ted Knight, a stage name for his really long, consonant-heavy Polish name. As you say, he was a brilliant buffoon.

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