Cultural appropriation? Eric Ripert's new mess

[Jenise]

Read and comment!

https://ny.eater.com/2022/1/6/22870126/le-bernardin-chef-eric-ripert-instagram-pho-recipe-backlash

Well, it certainly has "clueless white boy" written all over it. It's a nice-enough looking bowl of ramen.

Perhaps he did not know that the dish is made somewhat strictly and isn't just a vehicle for other things (like, say, an omelette or a souffle is). On the other hand, he's a world-class chef and is expected to do his homework.

He's probably earned an F for this one but I could be talked up to D-.

[Jenise]

Interesting. I just don't find myself sympathetic to the complaints.

Where does creative cooking stop and cultural appropriation begin? My very favorite pho EVER has egg noodles in it. The chef is Vietnamese and the restaurant is Vietnamese, and he offers several phos. The one I love includes egg noodles (curly ramen-like, not vermicelli, but that's immaterial), Chinese five spice seasonings, and a sizzling leg of duck confit ducked in at service. More traditional phos are on offer too, but if Vietnamese chefs can play with the concept why can't Eric Ripert? Oh, and also on the menu at the restaurant I speak of are things like "Vietnamese tamales". Is the chef guilty of cultural appropriation in using the Spanish word tamale for a crust doesn't that include a corn product (it's ground sticky rice)?

All good questions. A lot of it is preferences... where do you draw the line?... but I think there is some firm ground here. If the dish does not contain the signature ingredient, then I think it is odd to call it by that name. (Some people take "odd" all the way to "unfair" and "villainous".)

Is a tamale owned by its main ingredient? I'm not offended by 'Vietnamese Tamale' because I think of a tamale as a structured food, not any specific ones. Any good tamale maker offers several fillings and maybe even a couple kinds of corn-mush exterior. Ditto for "Wellington", another food that certainly has a classic version but I think of it as a structure or prep.

Then again, I'm neither Mexican nor a member of the Cumberland Hussars.

Your last question is really the most interesting to me: is a Vietnamese chef allowed to mess with pho such that it no longer has any pho in it?

The purist line of reasoning is: no, it ain't pho without pho in it. A defensible position, perhaps, but the world is hardly such a rigorous place so prepare yourself for frequent disappointments.

A line of reasoning that acknowledges reality a little better is: yes, a Vietnamese person 'owns' pho, in some sense, so he is allowed to play with it. This is, of course, blatantly racist. But wouldn't the same dish go over better if it was served by Luke Nguyen? How about a $100 bahn mi with foie gras and truffles? https://guide.michelin.com/us/en/califo ... se-cuisine

A third line of reasoning is 'anything goes'. Perhaps this is the most realistic approach but I dislike it because it voids words of their meaning. After all, who's to say that I *can't* make pho with chunks of rattlesnake confit on a skewer? Did I mention the handful of freeze-dried loganberries that accompanies it?

This kind of question has applications further afield. I have lived during a sea-change in the public perception of LGBT people. Does anyone have a right to use the f word? Can I use it because I know whereof I speak? Or, is it always bad? Ditto the other dictions that were and still are common, e.g., referring to men by feminine pronouns, though I note that 'queer' has been fairly successfully reclaimed.

The same applies to the African-American community. In the past 20 years, other than men wearing bedsheets, I've only ever heard the N word come out of an African-American person's mouth. I live in a liberal enclave, indeed, but you'd think that they would be the first to dump that word by the wayside.

Back to the topic at hand: Maybe you like Vietnamese-style egg noodles with broth because you are more familiar with egg noodles than with transparent rice noodles. I have no doubt that the pho chefs of the world would sell more pho if they could adjust it to be a bit more like pizza.

To my taste and knowledge, pho is really defined by its broth, distinct by its cooking time and ingredients. If I can't taste the hint of star anise in it and the beefy flavor of the roasted beef bones, then its a good bowl of soup, no matter what noodles and other garnishes used. Everybody is a critic, but not all critics are knowledgeable in the subject they tackle. I don't even understand the notion of cultural appropriation as it relates to food. People do riffs on food all the time, even within indigenous borders. The ceviche made in Peru is not the same as the one made in Mexico; and the gumbo made New Orleans is not the same as the one made in Lake Charles. Perhaps he should not have used the word Vietnamese, simply because he does not own nor work in a Vietnamese kitchen. But what comes out of his kitchen can have the soul of dishes by which he is inspired from all over the world. I think the criticism is much ado about little! Give the pretty white boy a break.

I understand Chef Ripert is coming out with a pho kit, so we can make it at home.

Where does creative cooking stop and cultural appropriation begin?

These discussions are interesting and emotional because they push so many buttons for so many people.

I tend to agree that culture is always a blend of influences and nobody 'owns' a particular style of cooking, singing, dancing, etc.

That said, we can certainly judge people based on their actions and there are some actions that involve using culture in ways that we might find disingenuous/offensive. I didn't read enough about this Ripert pho to know how it qualifies, but it does seem like his approach to the pho was less serious/rigorous than for his core French-inspired dishes, which is suspicious.

[Jenise]

Jeff said:

I'm not offended by 'Vietnamese Tamale' because I think of a tamale as a structured food, not any specific ones. Any good tamale maker offers several fillings and maybe even a couple kinds of corn-mush exterior. Ditto for "Wellington", another food that certainly has a classic version but I think of it as a structure or prep....maybe you like Vietnamese-style egg noodles with broth because you are more familiar with egg noodles than with transparent rice noodles.

You hit it on the head. Is it not possible that pho has become so ubiquitous that it is accepted as a "structure or prep"? Rice noodles in a low, wide bowl covered with a complex broth topped with meat (or vegetables, in the vegetarian variation) and cooling final additions. Clearly, Eric's on the same page. As for my duck pho, no, familiarity has nothing to do with it. I love rice noodles, I love authentic garden-variety pho. I just love that duck pho because it's a genius variation of the dish, and I accept the chef's preference for egg noodles in it without question. He says it's pho, so it's pho. Also, I note that a lot of pho restaurants offer egg noodles as an asterisked option...so if they're doing it?

In the world of food, everything gets appropriated. Vegetarian cuisine perhaps more than any other in its desire to create meatless versions of meat-familiar foods.

Just call it fusion.

I understand Chef Ripert is coming out with a pho kit, so we can make it at home.

"Pho kit" describes my attitude towards the whole affair.

A couple of prime examples of dish-turned-into-technique are pizza and fajitas.

-Paul W.

On this topic, some excellent writing from Tse Wei Lim, a friend and thoughtful chef whom some of you may know from his (and his wife's) restaurant Journeyman in the Boston area.
https://letthemeatcake.substack.com/p/n ... own-flavor

[Jenise]

Excellent, Jeff, thanks for posting. I subscribed.