Ketchup on Catsup

Interesting article on tomato sauce

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/h ... nz-ketchup

[Jenise]

Interesting article! I could get lost on that website, so much stuff.

But hey, ketchup. Did you notice that in the 1938 advertisement for Heinz, the bottle says "Made in Canada"? Was surprised that the article, about an American product made by American tycoons and cooks, didn't address that.

And speaking of ketchup, I have exactly three uses for it: a dip for french fries, a dipping sauce (along with Chinese mustard) for fried shrimp, and as a component in a hot and vinegary barbecue sauce I make. Otherwise--nothing. However, I am reminded of ordering some barbecued ribs as an appetizer at the Rain City Grill in Vancouver about 25 years ago that was served with a "ketchup" that boasted of being made in house that day from fresh tomatoes. It was THAT, more than the ribs, that caused me to order it. It was wonderful: brightly colored, vinegary and full of baking type spices, only barely sweet, and I loved it. Never had anything like it before or since.

Apparently the word 'ketchup' comes via Malay from a Chinese dialect word for fish sauce. I've seen the latinization 'ketjap' in some Southeast Asian recipes for various sauces. 'Catsup' is apparently an Anglicization. Growing up I remember the two major competing brands were Heinz Ketchup and Hunt's Catsup. Hunt's changed the name of their product from catsup to ketchup in 1988. I personally prefer French's ketchup because it uses sugar whereas the other major brands use high-fructose corn syrup.

I like ketchup on hamburgers, but mainly I like it with french fries. As a teen I considered the french fry mainly as a vehicle for conveying ketchup into the mouth.

-Paul W.

I rarely use Ketchup, but have is here for those who do. I like it with french fries, sometimes. I use Heinz Ketchup, called Simply, tastes better to me and no artificial sweeteners.. I have used it as an ingredient in BBQ sauces, some Asian sauces. Never use it on hamburgers, as I prefer a good mustard, or a Fourth Creek Habanero sauce.

Regarding the benzoate kerfuffle, last time I looked the main problem is its use in conjunction with ascorbic acid (vitamin C), which is commonly used as an antioxidant both in commercial foods and in home canning. Ascorbate can react with benzoate to cleave off the -COOH group and yield trace amounts of benzene, which is carcinogenic. Sodium benzoate can give you an upset stomach when taken by itself in quantity, but the trace amounts in preserved foods is toxic mainly to molds (hence its use as a preservative) and is easily handled by the human liver.

Everything absorbed from the gut passes through the liver before entering the general bloodstream. The liver converts benzoate to hippuric acid by attaching the amino acid glycine to it. Hippuric acid is excreted by the kidneys.

We studied this process in the Biochemistry lab course I took as an undergrad. We divided up into pairs. One partner of each pair did the chemical synthesis of hippuric acid by reacting benzoyl chloride with glycine. The other partner did the biological synthesis by drinking a measured amount of sodium benzoate solution, collecting urine over the next couple of hours, and isolating the hippuric acid from the urine. As always with synthesis experiments, the grade depended on the experimental yield and the purity of the resulting hippuric samples.

You could tell the lab partners performing the biological synthesis. They were the ones walking around with the grim, pasty-pale faces. I tossed a coin with my lab partner and was fortunate to win the chemical synthesis.

The main problem is that this was a Biology Department course and therefore being performed in a Biology lab room, not a proper organic chemistry lab. Benzoyl chloride is a powerful lachrymator--it reacts with water to form hydrochloric acid. It is very volatile and is often used in tear gas. This lab room had only one fume hood, and that was being used to dispense the benzoyl chloride. All the rest of the experiment was conducted in open air. So you had half the students carrying around open beakers of liquid tear gas and the other half carrying around open beakers of urine. We tried opening all the windows and doors to the lab to help clear the air but that didn't work very well. It was one of the more memorable experiments of my academic career, right up there with almost killing myself while synthesizing molecular chlorine.

-Paul W.

Great story Paul. One of my neighbors had a daughter, and years ago when she was putting herself through school, she volunteered to become a Guinea pig for testing vaccines. She had a lot of stories too. Thankfully, she survived to get through school, marry, become a mom and live a good life. We were worried though...

I think most hamburgers and most fried foods are improved with a bit of ketchup. Add horseradish for shrimp cocktail or Crab Louis. Definitely an ingredient in bbq sauces and the like.

As Paul said, the word comes to us via a fermented fish sauce, but we Westerners have done all sorts of things to it... mushroom ketchup, white ketchup, tomato ketchup. It became a catch-word for almost any sauce. It was H.J. Heinz, whose genius was Marketing, who firmly planted it in our minds as tomato-based.

And my favorite YT channel has an episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWlqxGQXZx8

I don't use a lot of ketchup but we keep it around for my son, so I started cooking with it at times. Works surprisingly well (to me at least) as a base for sauces, mixed with soy sauce, garlic, onions. I guess it's the same principle as tomato paste, but with more flavor. But yes, I use sparingly because of all the gunk ingredients. Even in the organic fancy ketchup we buy.

Funny - I must have some Poirot in me as I prefer mayo with chips to ketchup/catsup (a Belgian habit).

See this on the Belgian connection:

https://theculturetrip.com/europe/belgi ... ian-fries/

Funny - I must have some Poirot in me as I prefer mayo with chips to ketchup/catsup (a Belgian habit).

I'm with you. I love dipping oven-fried potato wedges in aïoli, especially with Old Bay Chicken Wings: https://www.seriouseats.com/wing-week-old-bay-wings

I have a rule of thumb in restaurants: If they're good fries, eat them plain or with mayo. If they're not, drown them in ketchup.

[Jenise]

No, no mayo! Gross!

I often doctor ketchup with horseradish or sriracha.

[Jenise]

Speaking of ketchup, just saw a copy of the so-called redacted version of the search warrant for Mar-a-lago. Every word was crossed out except 'ketchup'.

Whataburger Spicy Ketchup is the shit.

[David M. Bueker]

Ketchup is used for burgers here (along with mustard), and that is all.

[Jenise]

Ketchup is used for burgers here (along with mustard), and that is all.

I have a friend who puts ketchup and guacamole together in the same burger.

Like catsup, mustard can be polarizing. I very much enjoy Dijon style mustard while finding 'ballpark' weenie mustard mildly distasteful, but I know that many people have the opposite feeling.

Jenise, would you like mayo if it was dyed red....?

Cheap 'ballpark' mustard (such as French's) does have its place. The coating for Jamaican jerk chicken just isn't right if you use frou-frou mustard such as Dijon to make it.

-Paul W.

[Jenise]

Like catsup, mustard can be polarizing. I very much enjoy Dijon style mustard while finding 'ballpark' weenie mustard mildly distasteful, but I know that many people have the opposite feeling.

Jenise, would you like mayo if it was dyed red....?

NO. But I'm not a ketchup fan, only an infrequent user who likes french fries and fried shrimp dipped in it (though I usually doctor it to spice it up).

I actually love the taste of ballpark style mustard. I can eat it straight out of the jar. I just haven't bought any in years because I don't eat the kind of foods it would go on, whereas I have Dijon on hand all the time for a variety of uses.