Making a roux without AP flour

I was wondering if you all could help me out...is it possible to use rice or oat flour to make a roux? Am I right that it's the starch in the flour that thickens, and thus, something besides a wheat based flour would work? Anyone tried to coat meat in something other than AP flour?

I learned the following during Boot Camp -- a one week cooking class -- at the Culinary Institute in New Hyde Park a few years ago, Maria. Any starch can be used, as you indicate. From my notes posted on the old FLDG:

Roux thickens sauces, soups and stews, and also imparts flavor. Basically the ratio by weight is 6 parts flour to 4 parts fat; the CIA tests have been done with all purpose flour, although different flours will give different results. Clarified butter is the most common fat for roux. (It should look like “sand at low tide.”)

Clarified butter is made by heating whole butter until the butterfat and milk solids separate; it is the butterfat with the milk solids and water removed. 16 ounces of butter yields 12 ounces of clarified butter.

Arrowroot is an excellent, although pricey, pure starch thickener. To use it, dilute in cold water to make a slurry and add the slurry in small amounts.

To substitute a pure starch for roux use the following formula: Weight of flour in roux (multiply weight of roux by 0.6 to get the weight of the flour) times the thickening power of the replacement starch = weight of the replacement starch.

Thickening powers: rice flour 0.6, corn starch 0.5, arrowroot 0.5, tapioca,0.5 and potato starch 0.2. [I.e. corn starch has less thickening power than AP, and you need to use twice as much for the same effect.]

Different teams used different flours to make roux -- we found the practical results indistinguishable.

On the third day we applied our roux knowledge to recipes for soup; my notes for that day read:

Roux thickens sauces, soups and stews, and also imparts flavor. Basically the ratio by weight is 6 parts flour to 4 parts fat; the CIA tests have been done with all purpose flour, although different flours will give different results. Clarified butter is the most common fat for roux. (It should look like “sand at low tide.”) Cooking time is determined by amount of roux and the desired color – white, blond or brown. Generally, roux is used less and less, and is being replaced with pure starches such as arrowroot and cornstarch.

Regards, Bob

Excellent Bob...thank you!! Extremely helpful as usual!!

What are you trying to do? Perhaps specific detail will help us lead you to the best solution.

I'm seeing through the blurry eyes of a man with the flu, but I don't think Bob mentioned that the darker the roux the less the thickening power.

Also, never taste a roux right out of the pan. My own personal attempt at this left blisters.

Also, never taste a roux right out of the pan. My own personal attempt at this left blisters.

Every cook makes this mistake. Once.

What are you trying to do? Perhaps specific detail will help us lead you to the best solution.

Bernard, my son is allergic to wheat so I am trying to substitute other flours in my daily cooking. Things like making a roux for stews and sauces, and also recipes that call for dreading meat in flour, ie Veal Marsala...I was wondering how switching out AP flour with, say rice flour would change the taste/texture of the recipe.

We found out last year that he was allergic to wheat (amongst many, many other things). He is 2 yrs old now. I stopped using wheat flour last yr because flour is so hard to control without getting it all over the place (the flour can't even touch my son's skin or he has an allergic reaction.) I've stopped cooking a lot of my favorite and more "upscale" dishes because of this. However, for the next 2 months, I have company visiting and staying with us, and I need to cook lots of nice meals. So, I have to start changing some things.

Sorry for the very lengthy explanation...LOL! I am sure it was much more info than you needed, but it saves me the explanation when someone asks, "why not just use AP flour?".

I'm through the blurry eyes of a man with the flu,

Awww Gary...poor thing. Just in time for the holiday huh? It's no fun, I had it a few months ago. Hope you feel better soon and get to enjoy some of your day.

Thanks John for the tip...I will definitely remember to heed that advice!!

[Jenise]

Bob, great information, but I disagree strongly with this statement:

[I.e. corn starch has less thickening power than AP, and you need to use twice as much for the same effect.]

My personal master proportions for a good bechamel is 1 slightly rounded tbsp flour for each cup of milk. Julia Child uses 1.75 perfect measures. Speaking from experience, to thicken a cup of milk with corn starch, I would use a slightly rounded teaspoon. This presumes each sauce will cook no more then ten-fifteen minutes after the addition of thickener--under extended cooking time, flour stays thick and cornstarch does not. But twice as much cornstarch? No, never.

Maria, since this is a continuing problem, let me be a little more precise -- this summary is from the CIA's Seventh Edition -- haven't upgraded to the Eighth.

The section is called pure starch slurries -- dilute the starch in cold water to produce the slurry about the consistency of heavy cream. The starch will settle, so it must be stirred well just before use. If the food is simmering, the thickening occurs quickly, but the thickened food will not hold very long.

The main alternatives:

Arrowroot --- thickening power about the same as cornstarch. Does not gel and weep when cooked; more translucent than cornstarch. Freezes well. Fairly expensive.

Cornstarch -- Translucent. Thickens when heat but gels and weeps upon cooling. Thickening power diminishes with excessive heating. Does not freeze well. Inexpensive.

Tapioca/Cassava flour. Translucent. Thickening power slightly greater than cornstarch. Moderately priced; available in Asian food stores.

Potato starch. Translucent. More thickening power than cornstarch. Moderately priced.

Rice flour. Translucent. Relatively weak thickening power. Freezes well. Fairly expensive.

To substitute a pure star for roux, use the following formula:

Weight of flour in roux (multiply weight of roux by 0.6 to determine weight of flour) times Thickening power of replacement starch (see below) = weight of replacement starch required (estimated).

Example: Arrowroot in a recipe that calls for 10 ounces of Roux:

10 ounces roux times 0.6 = 6 ounces of flour

6 ounces of flour times 0.5 (arrowroot thickening power) = three ounces arrowroot.

Thickening powers:

Rice flour: 0.6

Cornstarch: 0.5

Arrowroot: 0.5

Tapioca: 0.4

Potato starch: 0.2

Note: there is no simmering time with pure starches.

Regards, Bob

I don't think Bob mentioned that the darker the roux the less the thickening power.

BINGO!!!!

I would suggest using potato starch for dredging things like veal marsala. You could try using it for a roux, but I never have tried that. However, I have made bechamel with potato starch.

Rice flour has a slight gritty texture, which is nice added to pancakes. Put it might not be suitable for fast-cooking dishes in which the starch is used for dredging.

You might also consider buckwheat flour for some purposes, but not dredging. It makes nice blini and crepes.

[Jenise]

Rice flour has a slight gritty texture, which is nice added to pancakes. Put it might not be suitable for fast-cooking dishes in which the starch is used for dredging.

Same experience here with rice flour, Bernie. It stays grainy--a very fine grain albeit, but grainy. Never have tried potato, but I'll add that corn starch isn't bad for dredging either.

I was wondering if you all could help me out...is it possible to use rice or oat flour to make a roux? Am I right that it's the starch in the flour that thickens, and thus, something besides a wheat based flour would work? Anyone tried to coat meat in something other than AP flour?

I've got rice flour and potato flour in the cupboard and I have coated fish pieces in them. I've done salt and pepper squid rings in a rice flour and five spice powder mixture, and the result was pretty good. You need egg to help it stick. The texture and appearance is quite different to standard flour. Potato flour is quite heavy.

My sisters cook just about everything with gluten free / wheat free products and are getting pretty good at producing all sorts of things, including cakes, muffins, breads, etc. I'll check what flour they use for a roux. You could always use corn starch - it's a good thickening agent and the stuff I get is wheat free / gluten free. Also arrowroot. You will become very good at reading labels. I was surprised to find that normal soy sauce has gluten. I didn't know until a celiac friend told me.

Cheers,
Sue

Also, never taste a roux right out of the pan. My own personal attempt at this left blisters.

And always use a long-handled wire whisk when making it.

Brown roux isn't called "Cajun napalm" for nothing. It sticks to the skin and burns like hell. Be careful not to spatter it on yourself while making it.

Cornstarch should make a very nice, wheat gluten-free, roux. I've never tried it, but crumbled corn muffins might do well as a substitute for bread crumbs for breading and frying cutlets and so forth. I do know that cornstarch- or arrowroot-based batters are often used in Chinese cooking in deep-frying. You can get a nice crispy/crackly coating that way. Witness General Gau's Chicken and friends.

-Paul W.

My sisters cook just about everything with gluten free / wheat free products and are getting pretty good at producing all sorts of things, including cakes, muffins, breads, etc. I'll check what flour they use for a roux. You could always use corn starch - it's a good thickening agent and the stuff I get is wheat free / gluten free. Also arrowroot. You will become very good at reading labels. I was surprised to find that normal soy sauce has gluten. I didn't know until a celiac friend told me.

Okay, spoke to one sis about what she used in a roux and she said rice flour usually, although sometimes she uses corn starch.

Cheers,
Sue

Thank you so much everyone for all the great suggestions!

Thanks Sue for asking your sis...does she have Celiacs? I will try to make the roux with rice flour or cornstarch and see how that works.

Bernard - I will use potato starch to dredge my veal.

I've never tried it, but crumbled corn muffins might do well as a substitute for bread crumbs for breading and frying cutlets and so forth.

Paul - unfortunately I can't use corn muffins as they always contain some wheat flour as well as eggs and dairy (which my son is also allergic too). But Kelloggs came out with "Corn Flake Crumbs" and I have used those as a coating with good results. But thanks for the idea!

Thanks Sue for asking your sis...does she have Celiacs? I will try to make the roux with rice flour or cornstarch and see how that works.

No, not my sis but someone in the family has a wheat intolerance now and that is after years of an almost totally beef/eggs/cheese-free diet. I also have a friend who is a Celiac and am conscious of what food I take whenever there is a bring-a-salad BBQ which she will also be attending. It seems to be a really big problem and I applaud the restaurants that are now indicating wheat free / gluten free / dairy free items on their menus.

Looking forward to hearing how your sauce turns out.

Cheers,
Sue