Culinary foam: Groovy or gross?

[I have not tried making foams, but as I understand it, Ferra-style foams are made with liquid, flavors and a gelling agent (gelatin? dunno), foamed by blasting them out of a restaurant whipped-cream dispenser with whatever gas is normally used in those things.

Nitrous oxide (N2O). Aka laughing gas. The commercial spray whipped cream uses this as well. N2O is fat-soluble, so the pressurized gas dissolves in the butterfat of the cream. When you spray it out and suddenly release the pressure, the N2O gas comes out of solution and causes the cream to foam just as it would after a lot of whipping air into it.

It's interesting to note that the only difference between Ferra's foams and Cheez-Whiz (tm) is mainly ingredients, not technique. Plus that with Cheez-Whiz, you're actually getting more for your money. With Ferra's foams, you're paying meagbucks for something that's 99% air.

-Paul W.

[Robin Garr]

Sorry, but I didn't evidence subtle elegance.

It would be helpful to taste it before rendering that judgment, Bob.

As for "muy caro," I guess it depends on how you gauge that. This dessert was part of the Oakroom's five-course dinner, which involves picking any five dishes from a list of about 20 starters, small plates, entrees and desserts, at a prix fixe of $96, plus $45 for five wines by the glass, selected by the sommelier to match the dishes you choose.

They all tend to be edge-pushing, creative dishes, with wild and strange flavor combinations and lots of eye-catching techniques including foams and smears. I thought it would be interesting and fun to discuss some of the more wacky excesses of these techniques. But as I told Paul in the other thread, let's not go over the edge here. These guys are highly respected nationally, they've been to Beard House repeatedly and "battled" on Iron Chef America. The Oakroom is one of Louisville's top eateries, and it commands those prices because it can get them.

I dunno, it just seems sort of self-indulgent to me. My music analogy would be Keith Jarrett- lots of technique and flash, but compared with solidity like Art Tatum, it's rendered superficial.

But... I haven't tasted those dishes from that restaurant, so this is armchair philosophizing.

These guys are highly respected nationally, they've been to Beard House repeatedly and "battled" on Iron Chef America.

And George Bush is President of the United States! If you saw something oozing out of a can that looked like that, conventional wisdom would say don't eat it. Most of us eat with our eyes as well as our mouths, and this just doesn't look appetizing -- and, as the closing note on a $150 meal, even less so. Hope you had a great time.

[Robin Garr]

And George Bush is President of the United States!

Oops! You've got me there. Bear in mind, though, that he wasn't legally elected.

If you saw something oozing out of a can that looked like that, conventional wisdom would say don't eat it. Most of us eat with our eyes as well as our mouths, and this just doesn't look appetizing -- and, as the closing note on a $150 meal, even less so.

A tough call. Being conscious of Adrian Ferra, and knowing that these guys are acolytes of molecular gastronomy, I was prepared for it, and thus willing to get past the appearance thing, although I found it sufficiently amusing that I took close-up photos and started these threads. If I were dining in a storefront ethnic joint that offered an unfamiliar cuisine (Uzbekistani, maybe?) and saw something that looked like camel spit, I would probably inquire before taking a taste. But knowing that this was a Ferra-style foam of white chocolate and orange - two very good things - I wasn't loath to indulge, even as I chuckled at it.

Hope you had a great time.

We did, we really did. It was well worth the $332 toll for two (including tax and tip).

After my column appears in LEO, Louisville's alternative weekly, next week, I'll post a link here so folks can read my comments about it in context.

I recall a review I wrote about Auberge du Soleil where I described a foam exactly that way.

Ikkkh-ptoooi!

I had the good fortune to eat there in the pre-foam era. When Masa was the chef.

Virginia Mudd took several of us to dinner there on the first anniversary of Mudd's. I spent some time in the kitchen with Masa and we had a couple of glasses of wine and a nice chat. Masa's tenure there was fairly short, as he went on to open Masa's a couple of years later. I only got one meal in there before he was murdered.

Sorry, but I didn't evidence subtle elegance.

It would be helpful to taste it before rendering that judgment, Bob. :roll
As for "muy caro," I guess it depends on how you gauge that. This dessert was part of the Oakroom's five-course dinner, which involves picking any five dishes from a list of about 20 starters, small plates, entrees and desserts, at a prix fixe of $96, plus $45 for five wines by the glass, selected by the sommelier to match the dishes you choose.

They all tend to be edge-pushing, creative dishes, with wild and strange flavor combinations and lots of eye-catching techniques including foams and smears. I thought it would be interesting and fun to discuss some of the more wacky excesses of these techniques. But as I told Paul in the other thread, let's not go over the edge here. These guys are highly respected nationally, they've been to Beard House repeatedly and "battled" on Iron Chef America. The Oakroom is one of Louisville's top eateries, and it commands those prices because it can get them.

Your first point is well taken Robin, but given what it looked like to me, I doubt that I would have tasted it anyway. Having spent 20 years in the USAF, I have eaten in places that didn't aspire to a Michelin guide stars, and enjoyed foods that will never be seen on a typical US restaurant menu. Still it always looked like food, and not a food residue. And about the "muy caro" comment, $150+ per person, is in my book, "muy caro"

Okay, this rendition is hideous but I've seen it done in an aesthetically pleasing manner. The most ingenious and tastiest was a foie gras cappucino which was a foie gras pudding in a cappucino glass with a foie gras foam forming the steamed milk topping. Looked exactly like a cappucino and it was delicous (l'Atelier de Joel Robuchon in Paris).

But 80% of my encounters with foam leave me thinking, "this chef is trying to be trendy without having any real reason to have this on the dish".

It's actually quite tricky to get foam right (so that it doesn't look like something out of an insect orifice). For me, the focus of foam in a dish should be a texture/flavour issue, but many have abused the use of foam (esp. common in the years of the fad) and not given the proper attention also required for the presentation.

Ben

What's wrong with an extremely airy mousse?

The hullaballoo about foams (pro and con) has always seemed far out of proportion to any inventiveness or grossness of the product. The best foams transfer the smell and taste of the liquid but with a delicate texture and serve as one more element of the chef's palette.

Squab with almost transparent carrot foam at Jean Georges imparted a bit of carrot aroma without forcing you to assemble a bite on a fork. Yum! Oyster and uni with seawater "gelee" ("foam" is so 1998) at Manresa was nothing more than a delivery mechanism for sea salt and a texture contrast with the slippery, creamy shellfish. Count me as a fan.

Walt

I guess the argument isn't against foams per se- after all, what's a soufflé?- but against the modern hock-ptui version thrown in where it really isn't needed. or when it's badly done as it nearly always has been in my experience.

What's wrong with an extremely airy mousse?

It lacks body, character, texture and definition. Quite simply, it isn't FOOD!

What's wrong with an extremely airy mousse?

It lacks body, character, texture and definition. Quite simply, it isn't FOOD!

Jo Ann, admit it, you are a BBQ kind of girl! red meat, or white, beef or pork,or even chicken, but nothing that looks like someone got sick!

Jo Ann, admit it, you are a BBQ kind of girl! red meat, or white, beef or pork,or even chicken, but nothing that looks like someone got sick!

Not really! Cooking is something that I am very good at, especially cooking meats on a grill (I have met only a handful who are as good as I, and none who are better). But, when it comes to my palate, I will try everything once, and eat most foods with the exception of peas and liver -- no negotiation. Nothing pleases me more than a great salad or vegetables cooked in a way that I haven't considered. But, something that looks like puke -- who is the person that is seriously attracted to that?! I believe that sometimes we compromise our true principles and tastes for the purpose of contemporary acceptance and dietary chic. This is one such instance. But, I am willing to be enlightened. Those of you who really enjoy this culinary creation, please share with me what makes it attractive, tasty and fulfilling. I appreciate and respect all of you that participate in this forum. Based upon your feedback and recommendations, I will look for and look forward to giving it a try. Thx.

Jo Ann, I didn't mean to denigrate you or your talent with my remarks, (if I did) Rather I meant my comments as praise.

Did I sound as if I was offended??? Not at all! I got your humor and wit (which I much appreciate BTW). In my tone, hear wonder and amazement (with a bit of cynicism) at this stuff as palatable to anybody. But, I'm open!! Which I hope came across. NO, Like most of the foods I like to cook -- I have a really thick hide. BRING IT ON!!!!!!!