The place for all things wine, focused on serious wine discussions.
User avatar
User

Bruce Hayes

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

3005

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:20 am

Location

Prescott, Ontario, Canada

Do you ever intentionally drink corked wine?

by Bruce Hayes » Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:50 pm

Like most of you, I assume, my first inclination is to either pour a corked wine down the drain or stick the cork back in and return it to the store for a refund. But, have you ever noticed that a wine is slightly corked and decided to drink it anyway?

Am asking since that is what is happening tonight. One of my lovely Jackson Triggs Shiraz from British Columbia is slightly corked. While it is evident on the nose, it really isn't evident in the mouth, probably since it is such a big wine, so I am drinking it anyway.

Thoughts?
no avatar
User

Mark Noah

Rank

Wine geek

Posts

95

Joined

Thu Mar 15, 2007 2:03 pm

Location

Baltimore

Re: Do you ever intentionally drink corked wine?

by Mark Noah » Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:53 pm

No Thanks....
no avatar
User

John Treder

Rank

Zinaholic

Posts

1641

Joined

Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:03 pm

Location

Santa Rosa, CA

Re: Do you ever intentionally drink corked wine?

by John Treder » Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:43 pm

If it isn't a gagger, I'll probably drink it. Corked or "smells like shit" or whatever.

I suppose that eliminates me from the ranks of the cognoscenti (those who know they smell).
John in the wine county
no avatar
User

Harry Cantrell

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

139

Joined

Tue Mar 28, 2006 7:18 pm

Re: Do you ever intentionally drink corked wine?

by Harry Cantrell » Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:53 pm

Yes. I went to a holiday party where the 'best' wine was a generic Beaujolais. The mild corkiness gave it some character!
Harry C.
no avatar
User

Rahsaan

Rank

Wild and Crazy Guy

Posts

7046

Joined

Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:20 pm

Location

Chapel Hill, NC

Re: Do you ever intentionally drink corked wine?

by Rahsaan » Fri Apr 25, 2008 1:11 am

No.

If I notice that a wine is corked, it's usually because something smells wrong (i.e. unpleasant, annoying) about it. So I would not want to drink it.

Of course I am sure that I have missed a few bottles of corked wine in my day.
no avatar
User

Steve Slatcher

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

830

Joined

Sat Aug 19, 2006 12:51 pm

Location

Manchester, England

Re: Do you ever intentionally drink corked wine?

by Steve Slatcher » Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:58 am

The moment I determine that a wine is corked is the moment I decide I don't want to drink it. I find the smell and taste repulsive. Incidentally, with low level taint I get the TCA on the palate rather than the nose. I may take a few sips for the sake of politeness while I work out where to dump the glass - that's all.

OTOH I could happily drink a wine with brett, VA or oxidation - only occasionally have I refused to drink an oxidised wine.
no avatar
User

Tim York

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

3991

Joined

Tue May 09, 2006 3:48 pm

Location

near Lisieux, France

Re: Do you ever intentionally drink corked wine?

by Tim York » Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:22 am

Cork taint is a curiously subjective and suggestive phenomenon in borderline cases. At tastings, as soon as someone says that TCA is there, at once nearly everyone else present agrees and discards the wine.

In my household my wife is more sensitive to TCA than me, so it happens that we reject quite a few bottles where I am very doubtful, though once she mentions it then I think that I too can detect it and my enjoyment is spoiled. She is usually right, BTW, proved by the fact that bottles of the same then brought up from the cellar are generally much cleaner and more fruity.

It has happened though rarely that, although everyone agrees that there is a faint whiff of TCA, we finish the bottle because the wine is fundamentally so good that the faint taint does not spoil it.
Tim York
no avatar
User

Covert

Rank

NOT David Caruso

Posts

3458

Joined

Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:17 pm

Location

Albany, New York

Re: Do you ever intentionally drink corked wine?

by Covert » Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:23 am

I used to tolerate corked wine. The first time I experienced it, I thought the funky flavor was interesting. But after time, I reject any hint of corkiness. I don’t think it is a matter of taste as much as principle. Taking a page out of a purist’s book, I like to think what I am drinking is as terroir driven as possible. Someone more catholic than I might argue that the world is the terroir, which includes corked wine.
User avatar
User

Robin Garr

Rank

Forum Janitor

Posts

17555

Joined

Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:44 pm

Location

Louisville, KY

Re: Do you ever intentionally drink corked wine?

by Robin Garr » Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:27 am

Bruce Hayes wrote:But, have you ever noticed that a wine is slightly corked and decided to drink it anyway?

Put me in the "dump it" category. Life's too short to drink bad wine, or spoiled wine. Frankly, I rarely go to the trouble of taking the wine back for a refund or exchange, but I'll do it occasionally if the wine was pricey.
no avatar
User

Tim Smith

Rank

Cellar rat

Posts

17

Joined

Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:02 pm

Re: Do you ever intentionally drink corked wine?

by Tim Smith » Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:34 am

I usually return it to where I bought it for a refund or exchange. The merchant can return it to the distrubuter. I was in retail wine sales for several years and keeping a customer happy was my priority. If you have a good relationship with your wine store you shouldn't have any trouble.
User avatar
User

Dale Williams

Rank

Compassionate Connoisseur

Posts

8037

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:32 pm

Location

Dobbs Ferry, NY (NYC metro)

Re: Do you ever intentionally drink corked wine?

by Dale Williams » Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:45 am

I've enjoyed wines that others thought were corked. I've drunk wines that others thought were corked- I didn't get the TCA, but found wine muted, and assume it was under my threshold. But once I think it's corked I really can't get past that, even if fairly mild.

I have taken back bottles if it was a recent purchase. I generally don't bother with cellared wines.
Last edited by Dale Williams on Fri Apr 25, 2008 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
no avatar
User

Cliff Rosenberg

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

144

Joined

Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:06 pm

Location

New York City

Re: Do you ever intentionally drink corked wine?

by Cliff Rosenberg » Fri Apr 25, 2008 12:35 pm

Generally, if a wine is corked enough for me to notice, it's pretty corked. But there have been times when the taint was faint, or I wasn't sure, and the wine was interesting if not pristine and too old reasonably to return. For the most part, though, I dump.
User avatar
User

David P.G.

Rank

Wine geek

Posts

39

Joined

Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:54 pm

Location

Montreal, Quebec, Canada

Re: Do you ever intentionally drink corked wine?

by David P.G. » Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:44 pm

I never do at all.

Plus with the very liberal return policy at the SAQ (Societé d'Alchool du Quebec) and the higher prices we pay (and the huge profits they generate), I don't think twice about it. I return them without hesitation.
User avatar
User

Jon Peterson

Rank

The Court Winer

Posts

2985

Joined

Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:53 pm

Location

The Blue Crab State

Re: Do you ever intentionally drink corked wine?

by Jon Peterson » Fri Apr 25, 2008 5:03 pm

Bruce, I used to drink corked wine all the time until I found out what it was by joining this group. Until I began reading here, I thought some wines just tasted like wet old newspaper; add to that the fact that I am apparently quite taint-tolerant. I have become more aware , however, and, unless the taint is too strong, which is more and more often it seems, I do not drink corked wines any more.
I just wanted to inform you that I find you to be very attractive. Thank you and have a nice day.
User avatar
User

Mike Filigenzi

Rank

Known for his fashionable hair

Posts

7203

Joined

Mon Mar 20, 2006 5:43 pm

Location

Sacramento, CA

Re: Do you ever intentionally drink corked wine?

by Mike Filigenzi » Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:43 pm

I have very poor sensitivity to TCA, so it's not uncommon for me to drink a wine that someone else will not touch. They often don't taste or smell all that bad to me. If it does taste bad to me for any reason, though, I will usually not drink it.
"People who love to eat are always the best people"

- Julia Child
no avatar
User

Dave Wanninger

Rank

Cellar rat

Posts

7

Joined

Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:34 pm

Re: Do you ever intentionally drink corked wine?

by Dave Wanninger » Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:24 pm

If it's a big and meaty wine and the TCA isn't too bad, I'll do the baggie thing and and at least try it the next day. The plastic wrap seems to strip some of the character even if it deadens the taint taste, tho, so I usually don't finish the bottle.

Dave
User avatar
User

Paul Winalski

Rank

Wok Wielder

Posts

4164

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:16 pm

Location

Merrimack, New Hampshire

Re: Do you ever intentionally drink corked wine?

by Paul Winalski » Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:10 pm

I dump them. But I have a high TCA sensitivity and a low TCA tolerance.

At the Yakima Valley barrel tasting many years back, I encountered a winery employee who was one of those persons blessed (I can't really call it a curse, except perhaps in his job) with the total inability to sense TCA. He poured me a glass that was positively reeking of mouldy cardboard and stale water in a toilet. When I said, "Phew! This wine is badly corked," he said in perfect honesty that he didn't smell or taste anything wrong with it. I asked him to call over a co-worker, who took one sniff, let out an exclamation of disgust, took the bottle away, and replaced it with another one (perfectly OK), with profuse apologies to us.

From a consumer perspective, I'M the one who's cursed. As a wine lover, I wish I were a TCA non-taster.

-Paul W.
no avatar
User

Graeme Gee

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

178

Joined

Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:13 am

Location

Sydney, Australia

Re: Do you ever intentionally drink corked wine?

by Graeme Gee » Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:59 pm

Sure. And if I get my fingers jammed in a car door, I leave them there too.
:roll:
:wink:
So, obviously, no, I don't.

Paul Winalski wrote:At the Yakima Valley barrel tasting many years back, I encountered a winery employee who was one of those persons blessed (I can't really call it a curse, except perhaps in his job) with the total inability to sense TCA. He poured me a glass that was positively reeking of mouldy cardboard and stale water in a toilet. When I said, "Phew! This wine is badly corked," he said in perfect honesty that he didn't smell or taste anything wrong with it. I asked him to call over a co-worker, who took one sniff, let out an exclamation of disgust, took the bottle away, and replaced it with another one (perfectly OK), with profuse apologies to us.

But where's the ending? You offer a glass of the clean wine to the non-TCA taster, and ask them if it smells/tastes the same as the contaminated one. And the answer is...?

cheers,
Graeme
no avatar
User

Michael Pronay

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

320

Joined

Mon May 01, 2006 1:47 pm

Location

Vienna, Austria

Re: Do you ever intentionally drink corked wine?

by Michael Pronay » Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:24 am

Graeme, I personally know someone who has a total inability to smell/taste TCA. It's Dorli Muhr, Austrian wife of Dirk van der Niepoort. Of course she realizes the difference when she tastes both samples alongside — the corked sample showing less fruit —, but she not able to identify a corked bottle right away.
Ceterum censeo corticem esse delendam
User avatar
User

Bill Spohn

Rank

He put the 'bar' in 'barrister'

Posts

5100

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:31 pm

Location

Vancouver BC

Re: Do you ever intentionally drink corked wine?

by Bill Spohn » Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:07 am

Isn't drinking a corked wine just a form of masochism? Like eating only slightly 'off' meat, or marrying a lady that you think might change even though she is a harridan and her mother a nightmare on wheels.

There are two reasons I've seen where people will drink wine they know is substandard.

1 - you can't tell the difference (many good tasters are not very sensitive to TCA)

2 - you can, but you really want a drink and that's all you have, so you'll compromise (warning - incipient alcohol reliance possible here)

(or 3 - you give it to the in-laws that came to dinner while surruptitiously sipping water yourself)

To my way of thinking, a corked wine, even a mildly corked one, either goes back to the store or into the stew pot to tenderise some cut of meat.

To the original poster - many of Jackson Triggs wines are bottled under plastic cork - was this one a real cork? This tank farm factory have never been a producer I bother with, though I try their wines from time to time, coming away uniformly unimpressed - workaday average at best. I must say I haven't seen many reports of spoilage though.

PS - everone owes it to themselves to at least once experience a corked wine side by side with a new bottle that isn't corked so they can see the difference. The insensitive people won't notice the TCA - they'll just think that the wine isn't that good, but they will see the difference between that and an untainted bottle.
no avatar
User

Steve Slatcher

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

830

Joined

Sat Aug 19, 2006 12:51 pm

Location

Manchester, England

Re: Do you ever intentionally drink corked wine?

by Steve Slatcher » Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:19 am

Bill Spohn wrote:To my way of thinking, a corked wine, even a mildly corked one, either goes back to the store or into the stew pot to tenderise some cut of meat.

I wouldn't reccomend the latter unless, perhaps, you reduce the wine first. I once made an absolutely disgusting sauce from corked wine, thinking the TCA would boil off as it was so volatile. On another board, Nayan pointed out that fats will absorb (or is that adsorb?) TCA and take on its flavour, so you need to get rid of the TCA by heating before letting it anywhere near meat fat. Not that I have dared try that yet, so I cannot confirm from personal experience that it works.
User avatar
User

Bill Spohn

Rank

He put the 'bar' in 'barrister'

Posts

5100

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:31 pm

Location

Vancouver BC

Re: Do you ever intentionally drink corked wine?

by Bill Spohn » Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:22 am

Fair comment, Steve. A very mildly corked wine goes into our marinating store; a really TCA affected one goes down the drain or back to the store. One good thing about having a government run liquor system - they don't balk when you bring back a wine you bought 5 years earlier.
User avatar
User

Bruce Hayes

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

3005

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:20 am

Location

Prescott, Ontario, Canada

Re: Do you ever intentionally drink corked wine?

by Bruce Hayes » Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:24 am

Bill Spohn wrote:To the original poster - many of Jackson Triggs wines are bottled under plastic cork - was this one a real cork?


It was real cork Bill. It was also the Proprietor's Grand Reserve, which is their top of the line wine (I know that most of their every day stuff is junk) and, finally, I have enjoyed a number of other bottles of this wine, as well at the PGR Meritage and Merlot, all from BC.
User avatar
User

Mike Filigenzi

Rank

Known for his fashionable hair

Posts

7203

Joined

Mon Mar 20, 2006 5:43 pm

Location

Sacramento, CA

Re: Do you ever intentionally drink corked wine?

by Mike Filigenzi » Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:40 am

Michael Pronay wrote:Graeme, I personally know someone who has a total inability to smell/taste TCA. It's Dorli Muhr, Austrian wife of Dirk van der Niepoort. Of course she realizes the difference when she tastes both samples alongside — the corked sample showing less fruit —, but she not able to identify a corked bottle right away.


That's pretty much exactly how it works for me.
"People who love to eat are always the best people"

- Julia Child
Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider] and 2 guests

Powered by phpBB ® | phpBB3 Style by KomiDesign