Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker
David M. Bueker
Riesling Guru
34367
Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am
Connecticut
David M. Bueker wrote:That's the kind of experiment I like to see - tasting the same wine under two closures. I wish I could buy a range of wines that way & do my own experimentation.
Hoke
Achieving Wine Immortality
11420
Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:07 am
Portland, OR
Hoke wrote:You mentioned Wakefield, the river, and hence non-Aussie name for the brand. But did you notice what the symbol was on the St. Andrews' label?
Mark Lipton wrote:David M. Bueker wrote:That's the kind of experiment I like to see - tasting the same wine under two closures. I wish I could buy a range of wines that way & do my own experimentation.
David,
It seem to me that the only real remaining question about screwcaps (and for that matter vino-lok and crown caps) is how red wine evolves under them over a significant time span (15-50 years) in comparison to what's known about cork-finished wines. Like you, I'd love to see some head-to-head comparisons of the same red wine sealed under cork and screwcap opened at years 5, 10, 15, etc. to monitor their comparative evolution. Alas, there are still too few wines to try this with: '97 Plumpjack Cab is one obvious choice, and a few Australian and New Zealand wineries also may have produced two versions. What we need is for some big players to bottle, privately perhaps at first, a portion of their wine under screwcap and do those comparisons for the rest of the world. Michael Pronay has informed us that DRC might offer a choice of closures, as has Ch. D'Agassac in Bdx since the '04. When those wines have aged we will see the last piece of the puzzle come clear.
Mark Lipton
Mark Lipton wrote: Michael Pronay has informed us that DRC might offer a choice of closures, as has Ch. D'Agassac in Bdx since the '04.
Hoke wrote:Thanks for this post, Sue.
FYI, my company represents Taylors/Wakefield in the USA. Which makes me very happy, both for selling and drinking.
Your comments on the cork vs. screwcap tasting pretty much reflect my experiences doing same with Adam Eggins, the Chief Winemaker, and Mitchell Taylor, Family/Company CEO. for the brand.
Oliver McCrum
Wine guru
1075
Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:08 am
Oakland, CA; Cigliè, Piedmont
Michael Pronay wrote:Mark Lipton wrote: Michael Pronay has informed us that DRC might offer a choice of closures, as has Ch. D'Agassac in Bdx since the '04.
Sorry Mark, but I have never mentioned DRC experimenting with screwcaps.
Quite on the contrary, I am 100% sure that DRC turning screwcaps (or even experimenting with them) is a hoax.
OTOH, 2 cases of screwcapped Agassac 2005 safely arrived a few weeks ago ...
Anders Källberg
Wine guru
805
Sun Mar 26, 2006 10:48 am
Stockholm, Sweden
Mark Lipton wrote:What we need is for some big players to bottle, privately perhaps at first, a portion of their wine under screwcap and do those comparisons for the rest of the world.
Howie Hart
The Hart of Buffalo
6389
Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:13 pm
Niagara Falls, NY
In addition, there is (was?) a Taylor Wine Company that was founded in Hammondsport, NY (Finger Lakes) in 1880. Since 1970 it had been sold and changed hands several times, but I believe the name is still owned by Constellation, but there is no Taylor winery there any more. One of the descendants of the founder was Walter S. Taylor, who founded Bully Hill Winery on the original Taylor Wine Company property in the late 1960's. Walter, who passed away a few years ago, was also an accomplished artist and designed many of Bully Hill's labels. I had the pleasure of meeting him a few times. LINK: Walter S. TaylorSue Courtney wrote:...Taylors has its home in the Clare Valley in South Australia and is known as Wakefield in some parts of the world - probably because there is a port producer of the same name...
Mark Lipton wrote:Michael Pronay wrote:Mark Lipton wrote: Michael Pronay has informed us that DRC might offer a choice of closures, as has Ch. D'Agassac in Bdx since the '04.
Sorry Mark, but I have never mentioned DRC experimenting with screwcaps.
Quite on the contrary, I am 100% sure that DRC turning screwcaps (or even experimenting with them) is a hoax.
So sorry to have misattributed that comment, Michael. Now I wonder who it was who did inform me, as you usually are the first source I get my "Old World producer turns to screwcaps" news. Can't say that this revelation will affect my buying decisions, though
Mark Lipton wrote:p.s. Jean and I are talking seriously about jointly attending next year's "Amino Acids" meeting at U. of Vienna. (It happens during the summer tourist season.) If we do make the trip, we might finally get a chance to open a bottle or two together.
Anders Källberg wrote:Mark Lipton wrote:What we need is for some big players to bottle, privately perhaps at first, a portion of their wine under screwcap and do those comparisons for the rest of the world.
AFAIK, Penfolds has been doing parallel bottlings with screwcap and cork for some while now, also with their reds. Has anything been heard from their results?
Hoke
Achieving Wine Immortality
11420
Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:07 am
Portland, OR
Sue Courtney wrote:Hoke wrote:You mentioned Wakefield, the river, and hence non-Aussie name for the brand. But did you notice what the symbol was on the St. Andrews' label?
WB Hoke. Long time no see. Yes, love that Riesling.
There is a cross on the label. I assume it is the cross of St Andrew but if that is what it is, what the connection with Scotland is, I don't really know. There is some association with golf and the St Andrews golf course in Scotland, too, IIRC.
You say you are up to the 2005 and 2006 reds now, but the St Andrews Shiraz 2003 has just been released. They still have the 2002 as current release on the website today.
Cheers,
Sue
Hoke
Achieving Wine Immortality
11420
Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:07 am
Portland, OR
Bob Hower wrote:Hoke wrote:Thanks for this post, Sue.
FYI, my company represents Taylors/Wakefield in the USA. Which makes me very happy, both for selling and drinking.
Your comments on the cork vs. screwcap tasting pretty much reflect my experiences doing same with Adam Eggins, the Chief Winemaker, and Mitchell Taylor, Family/Company CEO. for the brand.
Thanks for your post Hoke. In prior discussions of this issue, there were conflicting ideas about whether the head space left in the bottles (of both cork sealed wines and screwcapped wines) was air, or an inert gas like nitrogen or CO2. Could you shed some light on whether your bottles are sparged or not, and if so, what gas is used, and also if the practice is the same for corks and screwcaps? Another interesting aspect of this issue is how wines age in the bottle and what role slow oxygenation through the closure plays in bottle aging. Can you shed any light on this? Are the screwcaps designed to let tiny amounts of oxygen in over a long period of time, or is the thought to completey seal them from any ingress of O2?
Hoke wrote:Bob:
I spoke to the winemaker at Taylors/Wakefield. He said they do sparge each bottle with nitrogen, and after filling they 'topfill' with nitrogen before capping. The seal is meant to be impermeable, although the winemaker said that, of course, aging and development does take place. It is predictable and controlled, however, and most of all, consistent, which is not the case with cork finished bottles.
Also spoke to the winemakers at two of our CA wineries. In both instances they sparged, then topfilled with nitrogen, for both cork finished and screwcap finished wines.
In the case of the CA wineries, they currently screwcap whites and young early-consumption reds (although they have done trials and feel confident that from a winemaker's point of view, screwcaps would be preferable for ANY wine over cork closure. At Taylors/Wakefield they long ago decided that total screwcap was the way to go.
As one winemaker put it (and the others all echoed the sentiment): "The screwcap is as close as I can some...right now...to making sure that what the buyer tastes is what I intended the wine to be. I don't have that assurance with cork."
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