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Capcanes Peraj Ha'abib 2005

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Menachem S

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Capcanes Peraj Ha'abib 2005

by Menachem S » Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:30 pm

Daniel, do you have a recent note for this wine?

Thanks
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Re: Capcanes Peraj Ha'abib 2005

by Daniel Rogov » Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:54 pm

Menachem, Hi.....

Following is my tasting note for the wine in question.

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Rogov

Capcanes, Flor di Primavera/Peraj Ha'Abib, Monsant, Catalunya, Spain, 2005: Much as we have come to know it, a full-bodied, dark garnet towards royal purple blend of Garnacha, Cabernet Sauvignon and Carinena (Carignan), showing firm tannins those already integrating nicely with spicy wood and black fruits. On first attack blackcurrants and purple plums, those followed by blueberries, spices and Mediterranean herbs. Remains one of the best kosher wines of Europe. Approachable and enjoyable now but best 2010-2016. Score 92. K (Re-tasted twice with consistent notes 11 and 17 Apr 2008)
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Re: Capcanes Peraj Ha'abib 2005

by Menachem S » Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:13 am

Thanks

You say "consistent notes", but the drinking window is much different. The last note I think I saw was for 2009 to 2013 (or thereabouts)

Thoughts?
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Re: Capcanes Peraj Ha'abib 2005

by Daniel Rogov » Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:01 am

Menachem, Hi…

You have a good eye. The note you saw was from February 2008 and the more current one (by 2 months) in April. The consistency noted is for the dates on that particular note. The changes as you will see are primarily in drinking window and a bit in fruits. We can call that bottle variation or taster variation as we choose. At any rate, the changes are well in line and not dramatic. To make comparison between the tastings easier, both tasting notes follow.

Best
Rogov



Capcanes, Flor di Primavera/Peraj Ha'Abib, Monsant, Catalunya, Spain, 2005: Much as we have come to know it, a full-bodied, dark garnet towards royal purple blend of Garnacha, Cabernet Sauvignon and Carinena (Carignan), showing firm tannins those already integrating nicely with spicy wood and black fruits. On first attack blackcurrants and purple plums, those followed by blueberries, spices and Mediterranean herbs. Remains one of the best kosher wines of Europe. Approachable and enjoyable now but best 2010-2016. Score 92. K (Re-tasted twice with consistent notes 11 and 17 Apr 2008)


Capcanes, Peraj Ha'abib, Flor de Primavera, 2005: Dark garnet, with soft but mouth-coating tannins and reflecting its 12 months aging in French and American barriques with a gentle overlay of spicy wood. As last year, a blend of 35% each Grenache and Cabernet Sauvignon and 30% Carignan, full-bodied and, on first attack black cherries and blackberries, those yielding to currants, spices and chocolate and, on the long finish hints of mint. Approachable now but best 2009-2013. Score 91. K Tasted 24 Feb 2008)
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Re: Capcanes Peraj Ha'abib 2005

by Menach N » Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:20 pm

Rogov hi
have you tasted this wine from a Magnum format ?
would there be any changes with the drinking window ?

Please and Thank you !
Best..
Menach
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Re: Capcanes Peraj Ha'abib 2005

by Daniel Rogov » Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:25 pm

Menach, Hi.....

I have not tasted the Capcanes wines in magnum format. I'd "guess" it would add a year, perhaps two or three to the cellaring ability but not much more. As I say though....merely a guess on my part.

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Re: Capcanes Peraj Ha'abib 2005

by Menach N » Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:36 pm

Thank you Rogov !
question; what other advantges are in the Magnum format vs a regular format ? (besides the 1-3 yrs extra in life) -not particularly this wine, i mean in general wine-
pls and thnx
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Re: Capcanes Peraj Ha'abib 2005

by Daniel Rogov » Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:48 pm

Menach N wrote:...question; what other advantges are in the Magnum format vs a regular format ? ...not particularly this wine, i mean in general wine-



Menach, Hi.....

One might say that there are two reasons why wineries bottle some of their wines in magnum format. The first relates to truly fine wines - wines that have a long aging potential in whatever format they are bottled, the large format bottle (magnu8m or larger) having less air,thus leading to slower oxidation, slower development and a longer cellaring time, that sometimes adding 30-40% to the cellaring piotential in regular format bottles. As examples, the 1945 and 1947 Mouton Rothschild and the 1900 Chateau d'Yquem have long ago gone on to puppy paradise but thoser in magnum, double magnum or Jerabaom bottles are still drinking beautifully.

The second reason relates to status - that is to say putting an inexpensive wine in magnums in order to make it "attractive" and give the illusion of luxcury for weddings, baptisms, bar mitzvahs and yes, even funerals.

In the specific case, as I said, I have no experience in tasting. This is obviously a good wine but I cannot help but wonder if putting it into magnum formats is not more a question of "image" than one of "reality". I shall be visiting Capcanes during 2009 and will taste wines in such formats at that time. I shall report back.....

By the way, I do believe in magnum format bottles and with those wines I consider truly cellar-worthy fully 20% of my purchases have been in such formats. Happily, at my advanced age, I no longer need to worry about wines that will cellar for 30-40 or more years from now. One of the few advantages of the "aging human being".

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Rogov
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Re: Capcanes Peraj Ha'abib 2005

by Menach N » Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:24 pm

Thank you again for everything Rogov, you've been very helpfull, and i appriciate it.
alway learning new things,
Grazie
Menach
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Re: Capcanes Peraj Ha'abib 2005

by Menachem S » Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:33 pm

Daniel, I seem to remember a "rule of thumb" posted here in the past of 5 years extra for magnums.

Thoughts?
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Re: Capcanes Peraj Ha'abib 2005

by Daniel Rogov » Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:01 pm

Menachem, Hi

Several years ago, on the "old" forum, I wrote the following:

We discussed the advantages of the magnum format a while ago. To review briefly - it is true that there is not quantifiable data but many informal tests and tastings demonstrate that wines develop more slowly and age better in magnum format bottles than in regular formats. As I have written on many occasions, my estimate is that magnum format bottles tend to add 25% - 50% to the drinking window of many fine wines. That does not, by the way mean that double magnums or imperials will extend the drinking window by three to four.

Two classic examples that I have used and still hold true: the 1928 Yquem in regular format bottles is quite tired, in magnum formats, quite fresh; the 1945 Mouton in regular format bottles has gone on to wine paradise but the same wine in magnum bottles is drinking beautifully now and seems to have a dozen or more years of good life in front of it. And if another is desired, not that long ago Serene Suthcliffe tasted the 1945 Margaux from a magnum bottle. After a first and second sip she looked upwards, as if towards heaven, and quietly stated “Mmmm… almost ready to drink”

So enthusiastic about magnums am I that when it comes to wines with the potential for long cellaring, I generally suggest to those who have either the space of the cash on hand that for every 12 regular bottles that one lay in 4 – 6 magnums for the longer run. I realize of course that such advice is appropriate primarily for those with very large cellars and even larger budgets.

All of this with a few reservations, however, for as many tastings over the years have shown me, with most wines of up to ten years of age, you will taste no difference between a wine stored in a 750 cl bottle or a magnum. In general, that effect only takes place with truly long term storage. Now it is true that it can impress people to pour from magnum bottles but quite often that will wind up with quite a bit of left-over wine and that is simply a waste. As to those companies that bottle cheap and/or poor wines in magnums – that’s fine for Irish wakes, Jewish bar mitzvas and, I suppose Protestant weddings and is nothing more than a sales gimmick. Need it be stated – I have seen Gato Negro in magnum bottles. I was not amused.

As to wineries promoting sales in magnum of their fine wines in magnum bottles, let us keep in mind that very few people can or will follow my rule of 4 – 6 magnums for every case of regular bottles. Being realistic, not many of us buy wines by the case, not many store wines for 20 – 75 years and not many can afford the really great wines in large formats. I consider it important for a certain number of better wines to be available to us in large formats. I even consider it important to buy some wines that way.



On another occasion:


I remain firm in my belief that wines capable of aging will age far better in magnum formats. At a tasting held in London not that long ago, several of my colleagues and I tasted twenty two wines, all over forty years of age, mostly from Bordeaux but several from other regions as well, and those in both regular format and magnum format bottles. The wines were paired, that is to say served in couples of wines from the same Chateau or estate but we did this in a blind fashion so we could not know which had come from magnum and which from regular bottles.

Of six wines clearly beyond their peak in regular format bottles, five were still youthful, drinking beautifully and had further cellaring time ahead of them in magnum format. Of fourteen wines judged to be at or slightly beyond their peak in regular format bottles, twelve were deemed worthy of further aging in larger format bottles. Only two wines showed equally but agreement was unanimous that the regular format wines would drink well now or an additional five years while the drinking window for the wines in magnums was up to 15 additional years.

I agree that our tasting would not meet the most rigid of scientific demands but these are colleagues whose palates and judgement I value highly. More than that, it confirmed once again my belief of many years standing that wines develop more slowly in the larger format bottles. One of those cases where the shared knowledge happens to reflect realities.


Hope this helps a bit.....

Best
Rogov









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