The place for all things wine, focused on serious wine discussions.
User avatar
User

Paul B.

Rank

Hybrid Guru

Posts

2024

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:38 am

Location

Ontario, Canada

Re: Wine Spectator against disgusting earth…

by Paul B. » Sun Jul 23, 2006 6:41 pm

Otto Nieminen wrote:I love the savoury scents of earth and cigar in my wines, and if all wines become so spoofulated that they don't have them, I'll stop drinking wine totally: there will be no interest in it for me. I confess, that these few scents are some of the main reasons I bother with this beverage.

It makes one wonder why some tasters have such an aversion to these qualities. I'm with you on this. If all wine just tasted like lollipops or koolaid, why on earth would I bother with it?

I hate to say it, but an aversion to any amount of healthy funk (i.e. that which stems from the grape and/or its terroir, not winemaking or storage faults) seems to me to be indicative of somewhat juvenile tastes.
Hybrid Wines Online:
http://hybridwines.blogspot.ca
no avatar
User

Jenise

Rank

FLDG Dishwasher

Posts

26872

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:45 pm

Location

The Pacific Northest Westest

Re: Wine Spectator against disgusting earth…

by Jenise » Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:56 pm

Hey, Paul, there you are. Was beginning to worry about you--you've been too quiet!
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
no avatar
User

James Roscoe

Rank

Chat Prince

Posts

10514

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:43 pm

Location

D.C. Metro Area - Maryland

Re: Wine Spectator against disgusting earth…

by James Roscoe » Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:48 pm

Welcome back Paul. You have been missed for the last month. We look forward to a reinvigorated return of Paul B.
User avatar
User

Paul B.

Rank

Hybrid Guru

Posts

2024

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:38 am

Location

Ontario, Canada

Re: Wine Spectator against disgusting earth…

by Paul B. » Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:51 pm

Jenise - yes, I've been away on vacation in Poland for the past few weeks. Just got back late last week, in fact.

Not much in the way of a wine scene over there ... although I saw lots of grapevines while travelling through the countryside. "Pockets" of wine interest do exist, but by no means is there a wine consciousness in the general culture - there isn't much of a winemaking tradition there, even though many of our cool-climate hybrids (including Seyval Blanc) can be grown successfully. The quality of the commercially produce beer in Poland, however, is fantastic.
Hybrid Wines Online:
http://hybridwines.blogspot.ca
User avatar
User

Paul B.

Rank

Hybrid Guru

Posts

2024

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:38 am

Location

Ontario, Canada

Re: Wine Spectator against disgusting earth…

by Paul B. » Sun Jul 23, 2006 11:15 pm

James Roscoe wrote:Welcome back Paul. You have been missed for the last month. We look forward to a reinvigorated return of Paul B.

Thanks James! I was going to pull a dry Concord out this evening, but I thought I'd go soft the first day back. ;)
Hybrid Wines Online:
http://hybridwines.blogspot.ca
no avatar
User

Manuel Camblor

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

265

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:23 pm

Location

New York, NY

Re: Wine Spectator against disgusting earth…

by Manuel Camblor » Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:19 pm

Covert, Covert, Covert...

You should know better than to give your money to the Speck. The turdlings of Spectatoral "wisdom" you cite are further proof of the tasteless, clueless cretinism which overflows from that utterly horrid glossy.
Best,

LL
no avatar
User

James Roscoe

Rank

Chat Prince

Posts

10514

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:43 pm

Location

D.C. Metro Area - Maryland

Re: Wine Spectator against disgusting earth…

by James Roscoe » Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:23 pm

Manuel Camblor wrote:Covert, Covert, Covert...

You should know better than to give your money to the Speck. The turdlings of Spectatoral "wisdom" you cite are further proof of the tasteless, clueless cretinism which overflows from that utterly horrid glossy.


Could you be a litttle more open with your opinions next time. I would really like to know where you stand.
no avatar
User

Manuel Camblor

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

265

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:23 pm

Location

New York, NY

Re: Wine Spectator against disgusting earth…

by Manuel Camblor » Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:28 pm

I have often thought I am too criptic about my opinions. I will work hard to make the next set crystal-clear. :twisted:
Best,

LL
no avatar
User

Covert

Rank

NOT David Caruso

Posts

3447

Joined

Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:17 pm

Location

Albany, New York

Re: Wine Spectator against disgusting earth…

by Covert » Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:10 pm

Manuel Camblor wrote: You should know better than to give your money to the Speck. The turdlings of Spectatoral "wisdom" you cite are further proof of the tasteless, clueless cretinism which overflows from that utterly horrid glossy.


Manuel,

I like to look at the pictures of the Bentleys in case I win the lottery. I don’t think I will renew, but, instead, occasionally pick one off a rack if it has an article about Bordeaux or a travel piece that I might like to check out. Decanter will then be the only magazine I subscribe to. I do like that one.

Best,
Covert
no avatar
User

Clinton Macsherry

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

359

Joined

Tue Mar 28, 2006 2:50 pm

Location

Baltimore MD

Re: Wine Spectator against disgusting earth…

by Clinton Macsherry » Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:18 pm

Laube has been on this anti-earth jag for more than a year now. He seems to equate "earth" with heavy Brett and TCA, as Covert (I think) noted, which strikes me as odd even for someone as Calicentric as he. Many of his lower-than-usual ratings for some very prominent Cal Cabs have stirred up controversy over the past few vintages. In fairness to WS, I'm pretty sure that some of the wines he's dissed for earthiness are produced by enterprises that advertise heavily in the magazine.
FEAR THE TURTLE ! ! !
User avatar
User

Ruth B

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

131

Joined

Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:32 am

Location

Alberta Canada

Re: Wine Spectator against disgusting earth…

by Ruth B » Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:43 pm

First the earth thing--the 'new world' focus has tipped a lot of wines away from earth and leather (which are key to my love of great Rhones). WS will reflect their readership and there are plenty of folks out there more interested in a fruit bomb than anything else. I confess I get hedonistic pleasure from the occassional fruit monster too!

As for the ads thing--I am a tried and true cynic, but I just can't see someone tempering a review because of an advertisement--an implied insult might be more apt to result in a scathing write up!

Ruth
no avatar
User

Covert

Rank

NOT David Caruso

Posts

3447

Joined

Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:17 pm

Location

Albany, New York

Re: Wine Spectator against disgusting earth…

by Covert » Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:50 pm

Clinton Macsherry wrote:Laube has been on this anti-earth jag for more than a year now. He seems to equate "earth" with heavy Brett and TCA, as Covert (I think) noted, which strikes me as odd even for someone as Calicentric as he. Many of his lower-than-usual ratings for some very prominent Cal Cabs have stirred up controversy over the past few vintages. In fairness to WS, I'm pretty sure that some of the wines he's dissed for earthiness are produced by enterprises that advertise heavily in the magazine.


Clinton and Ruth,

Unless I see evidence to the contrary, I would assume that there is not a significant relationship between good reviews and ad money. It wouldn’t shock me to learn that there was a relationship, but I won’t assume it without hard evidence.

But…why would a wine educated person use a positive term to wine connoisseurs like “earth” to describe a negative flaw like TCA or too much brett? Earth (and leather, loam, forest floor, animal, etc.) in wine is beloved by many connoisseurs. Laube should know that – has to know that. What is wrong with him? It would be like someone in show business using the term “buff” or “svelte” to describe a woman with anorexia nervosa. Why not use accepted terms – or at least neologisms – to describe important elements of your métier?

What is wrong with the other editors of the magazine that they didn’t pick that stuff up?...unless they are all really and truly on an insidious mission to neuter wine and kill sensuality. We have enough nuts in the world trying to do that without wine magazines joining the jihad (in the second, general sense).
User avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Riesling Guru

Posts

22562

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:52 pm

Location

Connecticut

Re: Wine Spectator against disgusting earth

by David M. Bueker » Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:57 pm

It's just a different use of the word. Earthy means a lot of things to a lot of people, even in the wine world. To you it's glorious. To Jim Laube it's terrible. I can recall a number of times that I have described a German white as earthy in a pejorative sense, but it does not mean that I dislike earthy character in Burgundies or Rhones.
There behind the glass lies a real blade of grass. Be careful as you pass. Move along. Move along.
no avatar
User

Covert

Rank

NOT David Caruso

Posts

3447

Joined

Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:17 pm

Location

Albany, New York

Re: Wine Spectator against disgusting earth

by Covert » Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:01 pm

David M. Bueker wrote: I can recall a number of times that I have described a German white as earthy in a pejorative sense, but it does not mean that I dislike earthy character in Burgundies or Rhones.


No, I wouldn't like a bottle of pure spring water to taste earthy, for sure; but Laube is talking about Cabernet Sauvignon!
no avatar
User

Manuel Camblor

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

265

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:23 pm

Location

New York, NY

Re: Wine Spectator against disgusting earth…

by Manuel Camblor » Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:03 pm

Covert wrote:
I like to look at the pictures of the Bentleys in case I win the lottery. I don’t think I will renew, but, instead, occasionally pick one off a rack if it has an article about Bordeaux or a travel piece that I might like to check out. Decanter will then be the only magazine I subscribe to. I do like that one.

Best,
Covert


Well, normally, if the Speck does publish somethign that seems even remotely interesting, I count on reading it at the office of my dentist, a self=proclaimed "wine enthusiast" who apparently got a two-year subscription as a gift from his mother-in-law (or so he claims). Alternatively, I will stop by the Park Avenue and 57th Borders and have a go at whatever the Marvintones are babbling about. That's how I got to read their very perversely interesting take on high-alcohol wines (mostly a defense of California) and a weird little piece on the Loire that featured a 3/4-page photo of François Chidaine.

No Bentleys for me.

And Decanter? Duuuuuuuuuude! As a friend once put it: 'Strictly toilet reading these days". It used to be a good magazine, but has veered dangerously toward the luxury-goods bullshit end of things.

And "an article about Bordeaux"? You mean you keep up with that stuff? I prefer just to get the e-mails with the 1ère Tranche offers and laugh my ass off, particularly if it's Rollandized junk selling for $300 a bottle...

I don't think there's a wine magazine I actually follow nowadays. Nothing's worth the time or the money.
Best,

LL
no avatar
User

Manuel Camblor

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

265

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:23 pm

Location

New York, NY

Re: Wine Spectator against disgusting earth…

by Manuel Camblor » Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:09 pm

Covert wrote: Laube should know that – has to know that. What is wrong with him?


The drinking of certain batches of spiked Kool Aid has been known to cause permanent brain damage. :twisted:
Best,

LL
no avatar
User

Manuel Camblor

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

265

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:23 pm

Location

New York, NY

Re: Wine Spectator against disgusting earth

by Manuel Camblor » Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:11 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:It's just a different use of the word. Earthy means a lot of things to a lot of people, even in the wine world. To you it's glorious. To Jim Laube it's terrible. I can recall a number of times that I have described a German white as earthy in a pejorative sense, but it does not mean that I dislike earthy character in Burgundies or Rhones.


Can one of you guys who follow Mr. Laube's writings mroe closely than I do sum up his position on terroir and all that fun stuff? I'm just very curious...
Best,

LL
no avatar
User

Covert

Rank

NOT David Caruso

Posts

3447

Joined

Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:17 pm

Location

Albany, New York

Re: Wine Spectator against disgusting earth…

by Covert » Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:26 pm

Manuel Camblor wrote: No Bentleys for me.


Now that I think of it, Decanter has Bentleys, too. I wonder how many people who read either magazine see the ads and actually go buy a Bentley. I think it is the Martha Stewart Living model: the magazines provide poor blokes a way to associate with the rich. I wonder when one of them will advertise the Bugatti.
User avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Riesling Guru

Posts

22562

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:52 pm

Location

Connecticut

Re: Wine Spectator against disgusting earth

by David M. Bueker » Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:46 pm

Covert wrote:
David M. Bueker wrote: I can recall a number of times that I have described a German white as earthy in a pejorative sense, but it does not mean that I dislike earthy character in Burgundies or Rhones.


No, I wouldn't like a bottle of pure spring water to taste earthy, for sure; but Laube is talking about Cabernet Sauvignon!


Indeed, but he is talking about cabernet from California which is by no means noted for its earthiness. In fact he's talking about young cabernet which is pretty much not noted for earthiness anywhere.

Usually it takes years of aging for cabernet to go from tannic (and somewhat to boisterously fruity depending on appelation) to mellow and earthy/leathery. To have those traits in a young wine could very well be the signs of a problem.

Laube may be correct. Why not taste the wine and find out. Oh..wait...that's right, most of the folks on this site don't much care for cal cab because it's too...wait for it...fruity!

Eek...fruit in wine!
There behind the glass lies a real blade of grass. Be careful as you pass. Move along. Move along.
no avatar
User

Covert

Rank

NOT David Caruso

Posts

3447

Joined

Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:17 pm

Location

Albany, New York

Re: Wine Spectator against disgusting earth

by Covert » Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:17 pm

[quote="David M. Bueker"] most of the folks on this site don't much care for cal cab [quote]

I suspect that I can't be open minded about Cal cab. I've decided Bordeaux is orders of magnitude better, for me, and I think that has locked my mind. Obviously a lot of people disagree with me. Cal keeps winning the taste-offs. Probably what Laube said isn't so crazy to a lot of people who like Cal cab. I'm not being facetious. I just wasn't being empathetic, either.
User avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Riesling Guru

Posts

22562

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:52 pm

Location

Connecticut

Re: Wine Spectator against disgusting earth

by David M. Bueker » Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:43 pm

Covert wrote: I'm not being facetious. I just wasn't being empathetic, either.


Relax, you were just picking on one word the same way folks on other sites do. It's the universal disease of the internet. We all have it.
There behind the glass lies a real blade of grass. Be careful as you pass. Move along. Move along.
User avatar
User

Bob Henrick

Rank

Kamado Kommander

Posts

3980

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:35 pm

Location

Lexington, Ky.

Re: Wine Spectator against disgusting earth…

by Bob Henrick » Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:34 pm

There is nothing like beautiful pictures of French vinyards.


Unless it would be the steep sloped vineyards of Germany!
Bob Henrick
no avatar
User

TimMc

Re: Wine Spectator against disgusting earth…

by TimMc » Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:42 pm

Paul B. wrote:
Otto Nieminen wrote:I love the savoury scents of earth and cigar in my wines, and if all wines become so spoofulated that they don't have them, I'll stop drinking wine totally: there will be no interest in it for me. I confess, that these few scents are some of the main reasons I bother with this beverage.

It makes one wonder why some tasters have such an aversion to these qualities. I'm with you on this. If all wine just tasted like lollipops or koolaid, why on earth would I bother with it?

I hate to say it, but an aversion to any amount of healthy funk (i.e. that which stems from the grape and/or its terroir, not winemaking or storage faults) seems to me to be indicative of somewhat juvenile tastes.


Exactly.

When a ruby red Cab comes to me with leather, currant, anise or smoke in the nose, I am absolutely thrilled.

Earthiness is a quality I look forward to in a wine...not sure what the problem here is.
User avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Riesling Guru

Posts

22562

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:52 pm

Location

Connecticut

Re: Wine Spectator against disgusting earth…

by David M. Bueker » Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:25 am

Paul B. wrote:I hate to say it, but an aversion to any amount of healthy funk (i.e. that which stems from the grape and/or its terroir, not winemaking or storage faults) seems to me to be indicative of somewhat juvenile tastes.


Ok, I don't know how I let myself get into this defense of Laube, but Cal Cab does not typically show healthy funk!

Cal Cab (even some OLD cal cabs I have had - e.g. '74 Heitz Martha's, '74 Mondavi Reserve, '74 Mayacamas, '68 BV GdL, etc.) is most often a fruit first beverage. It takes years for a good one to shed some of that baby fat fruit and even gain some leathery, dusty complexity. One this it almost never has, in the absence of faults, is funk. Cabernet is not a funky grape by nature, especially young, California cab.

And to imply Laube has juvenille tastes is...well...juvenille. You may not like the same wines he does (for the record: I don't most of the time), but he has his job for a reason.
There behind the glass lies a real blade of grass. Be careful as you pass. Move along. Move along.
PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Howie Hart and 6 guests

Powered by phpBB ® | phpBB3 Style by KomiDesign