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Is a $250 bottle of wine 10 times better than a $25 bottle?

Yes, most assuredly.
8
17%
No, not at all.
21
44%
Perhaps, but I can't afford to find out.
19
40%
 
Total votes : 48
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Manuel Camblor

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Re: Would you pay $500 dollars for a bottle of wine?

by Manuel Camblor » Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:14 am

No 2003s and 2005s? Excellent idea! I must say I have done the same thing.

What puzzles me is your claim not to read "any books" (never mind the magazines, they're not even good for wrapping fish these days) about wine. A lover of older vintages would, as far as I can imagine him/her, also be an avid reader of wine books that could provide valuable information about those vintages and their wines. Of course, I don't want you to go on the defensive, thinking that I'm trying to measure everyone using myself as a yardstick. But I just think of all the friends I have with well-put-together wine collections and their libraries--without exception--tend to match their cellars.

Again, no judgment, just puzzlement...
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LL
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James Roscoe

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Re: Would you pay $500 dollars for a bottle of wine?

by James Roscoe » Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:32 am

JoePerry wrote:
TimMc wrote:
Manuel Camblor wrote:
TimMc wrote:

IMHO...you need to seriously get over yourself and walk amongst us common wine drinking folk for a while.


I am amazed.


Here I know I will come dangerously close to breaking one of the cardinal rules of this forum, if I don't just go ahead and shatter it... But Tim, dude, bite me.

Besides, I don't do "common".


OK...whatever, Manuel.

I tried to be civil with you and understand where you are coming from.

All I get back is attitude.

Live well in the path you have chosen, my friend.


Peace.


Tim, you are a Troll, plain and simple.

At first I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, but it is obvious that you are only interested in taunting reactions from folks, and when they bite, you hold up your hands as if to say, "Who, me???"

Also, trying to railroad people and lead their answers is almost as insulting as the Sophomoric idea that assuming a tone of correctness and being correct are the same thing. You claim to be an educator, but I can't imagine you holding any real title with the kind of sweeping generalizations and poorly supported arguments as I've seen here.

Not that it has anything to do with your post, but I wonder if you have any first-hand experience with the cost of making wine, or tasting experience in $500 wines (not articles or other people's opinions). Please share with us if you do in either case.

Thanks,
Joe


Didn't someone do a thread on feeding trolls? Isn't Rule #1 Don't feed the troll? Trolls are what they are.
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Manuel Camblor

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Re: Would you pay $500 dollars for a bottle of wine?

by Manuel Camblor » Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:20 am

James Roscoe wrote:
Didn't someone do a thread on feeding trolls? Isn't Rule #1 Don't feed the troll? Trolls are what they are.


I just wonder if we're allowed to use our slingshots on the little buggers here...
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LL
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JoePerry

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Re: Would you pay $500 dollars for a bottle of wine?

by JoePerry » Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:36 am

"I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back home"


James, it's a good point, but I am a sucker for believing the best in people... it's my curse, really.

Actually, in this case we may have wronged Tim. You’ll notice in a different thread that Tim posted his top three wines were all California Cabs – an area not exactly known for its QPR. :shock: It’s no wonder Tim is upset about the cost of wines!

I think I speak for everyone when I say that we would be happy to begin his recovery and reeducation about wines that actually carry their cost (be it $25 or $250).

Best,
Joe
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David M. Bueker

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Re: Would you pay $500 dollars for a bottle of wine?

by David M. Bueker » Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:58 am

JoePerry wrote:"I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back home"



"They're not much bigger than 2 meters..."

You know this thread would be a very good use for the Death Star.
There behind the glass lies a real blade of grass. Be careful as you pass. Move along. Move along.
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Re: Would you pay $500 dollars for a bottle of wine?

by JoePerry » Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:18 pm

Actually, a more fitting quote about this thread would have been:


"It's a trap!" :shock:
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Re: Would you pay $500 dollars for a bottle of wine?

by James Roscoe » Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:56 pm

"Don't give in to the dark side." I think that sums up LL's position in a nutshell doesn't it?
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Lou Kessler

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Re: Would you pay $500 dollars for a bottle of wine?

by Lou Kessler » Mon Aug 21, 2006 5:52 pm

Peace.[/quote]

Tim, you are a Troll, plain and simple.

At first I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, but it is obvious that you are only interested in taunting reactions from folks, and when they bite, you hold up your hands as if to say, "Who, me???"

Also, trying to railroad people and lead their answers is almost as insulting as the Sophomoric idea that assuming a tone of correctness and being correct are the same thing. You claim to be an educator, but I can't imagine you holding any real title with the kind of sweeping generalizations and poorly supported arguments as I've seen here.

Not that it has anything to do with your post, but I wonder if you have any first-hand experience with the cost of making wine, or tasting experience in $500 wines (not articles or other people's opinions). Please share with us if you do in either case.

Thanks,
Joe[/quote]

Didn't someone do a thread on feeding trolls? Isn't Rule #1 Don't feed the troll? Trolls are what they are.[/quote]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't be so kind, Tim's purpose in life is to be a pain in the ass to everyone around him. If he's an educator we're all in big trouble. Either he's so paranoid he should be committed. Imho

He makes Steve Plotnicki seem like the easiest going guy ever to post on the internet. At least Steve is extremely intelligent. This guy never answers anything directly when confronted. Robin, if this is too acerbic you may delete?
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Manuel Camblor

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Re: Would you pay $500 dollars for a bottle of wine?

by Manuel Camblor » Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:00 pm

Lou Kessler wrote:
He makes Steve Plotnicki seem like the easiest going guy ever to post on the internet. At least Steve is extremely intelligent. This guy never answers anything directly when confronted. Robin, if this is too acerbic you may delete?


Not acerbic enough, IMHO, Lou. Of course, we find ourselves in complete agreement until we reach the bit about Steve P, who is a lovely guy, when you get to meet him... Very funny in his own way and extremely generous with some truly great bottles over the past few years.

Of course, his internet persona ican be something else altogether, but one forgets after having a few drinks withthe guy...
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LL
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Re: Would you pay $500 dollars for a bottle of wine?

by James Roscoe » Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:21 pm

This thread has devolved from inteligent discussion to troll baiting. Wasn't that outlawed duning the Hayes administration? Poor Tim, he never really saw it coming. (Lou, nice piling on. Like the Russians in 1945.)

Joe, please continue to look for the good in people it's the power of the force. Just remember that we are all born inclined to go to the dark side at any moment. For some people it's just easier to reside there all the time. The bright glare of the truth hurts their eyes. (Why does a picture of Gollum come to me right now?)

LL keep the faith baby!

Peace!
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David M. Bueker

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Re: Would you pay $500 dollars for a bottle of wine?

by David M. Bueker » Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:47 pm

Trolls frighten easily. But they'll be back soon, and in greater numbers...
There behind the glass lies a real blade of grass. Be careful as you pass. Move along. Move along.
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Re: Would you pay $500 dollars for a bottle of wine?

by Manuel Camblor » Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:56 pm

James Roscoe wrote:This thread has devolved from inteligent discussion to troll baiting.

LL keep the faith baby!

Peace!


What in the hell is troll-baiting? Can one do this kind of thing with dynamite?

But seriously, it's a good thing none of us has the time or energy anymore for a good, solid old-school campaign of hate. I did my last one with the newbies on Wine Therapy a couple of months ago. Since then, I feel all spent. Still, while I had that kind of juice in me, it was fun... Who knows? Maybe I'll get it in me again...

Oh, and what exactly is this "faith" you speak of?
Best,

LL
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Re: Would you pay $500 dollars for a bottle of wine?

by Hoke » Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:30 pm

Eh, I don't know: I kind of enjoyed it.

I assumed it was a blatant troll in the first place, by someone who had not clearly (if at all) thought through what he was saying. Subsequent posts merely verified the belief.

So I never got emotionally invested in discussing/debating with Tim; I was posting more for the other folks who might be reading along, and might appreciate a little information to counter unmitigated blather mixed with half-baked opinions.

Under those conditions, it was fun.

I am, however, very concerned about the education being provided for children in California. Much more now than I was a few days ago.
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Lou Kessler

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Re: Would you pay $500 dollars for a bottle of wine?

by Lou Kessler » Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:46 pm

[quote="Manuel Camblor"][quote="Lou Kessler"]



Not acerbic enough, IMHO, Lou. Of course, we find ourselves in complete agreement until we reach the bit about Steve P, who is a lovely guy, when you get to meet him... Very funny in his own way and extremely generous with some truly great bottles over the past few years.

Of course, his internet persona ican be something else altogether, but one forgets after having a few drinks withthe guy...[/quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I'm sorry if my remarks about Steve P. came across as a criticism. I have broken bread with Steve and drank some nice wines with him and Toby while in NY. Have kept in touch now and then by email until the last year or so. He seems to have disappeared from the wine boards. I agree totally with your description of him on a personal level. Very generous person.
His total dismemberment of Rovani on Mark Squires board a couple of years ago was one of my personal highlights when reading any wine board. :P
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Re: Would you pay $500 dollars for a bottle of wine?

by TimMc » Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:47 pm

A troll....wha-?

You just cannot be serious.

Go back and actually read what I write, Guys.

It is well thoughtout and penned with the uttmost interest in learning/discussing the fermented juice we all love. But you don't want that if it involves blowing up any egos on this BBS or having the unmitigated gall to refuse to stand down simply upon the basis of a disagreement.

So you resort to labeling and calling names.

Now...now we see exactly how shallow those of you who stoop to such measures really are.

Nice.


I causes me to wonder how you all treat people in the real world beyond this BBS.
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Re: Would you pay $500 dollars for a bottle of wine?

by TimMc » Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:50 pm

Robin,

Kill this thread and any others which might cause the self-annointed of this BBS any bruising to their oh-so-preciuos egos.

Heavens forbid we should have any discordant views. :roll:
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Re: Would you pay $500 dollars for a bottle of wine?

by Robin Garr » Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:55 pm

TimMc wrote:Robin,

Kill this thread and any others which might cause the self-annointed of this BBS any bruising to their oh-so-preciuos egos.

Heavens forbid we should have any discordant views. :roll:


I don't generally censor this forum, Tim, other than obvious spam or actionable libel. Normally I count on everyone - <i>everyone</i> - to behave like intelligent adults. I don't like to delete threads, and in fact I don't even like to "lock" threads, considering this the sign of weak moderation.

We have had a blissful period of six months or so since opening this latest edition of the forum without any serious flame wars, trolls or meltdowns. This particular thread is one of the most "interesting" that there's been. I think it makes sense to leave it in place, let folks read it, and invite them to draw their own conclusions.

Why do you seem to be a lightning rod for charges of trolling? It could be, of course, that you're not doing any such thing, and that a large number of regular participants in this forum who normally interact civilly and intelligently, are simply mistaken. This is certainly within the realm of possibility.

But you might want to think quietly and introspectively about what might be happening here that causes so many people to disagree with you so irritably in so many different threads. Just a thought.
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Re: Would you pay $500 dollars for a bottle of wine?

by TimMc » Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:26 pm

I appreciate the concern, Robin, but I was not born amongst the tea parlor and crumpets set.

I tell it how I see it....just like they do. In fact, there are those [Hoke, Manuel, James etc] on this very thread who were called out for their pushing of buttons and their own trollish behavior. But have they been called to task for their boorishness by those who accuse me?

To the folks who are whining incessently about my posts I will humbly suggest that it is they who might want to "think quietly and introspectively" about what they are doing relative to discussion and dealing with beliefs outside of their respective comfort zones in a more civil and less trollish manner. Attempting to chase me is indicative of this type of small-minded behavior.

The problem is these name-callers, labelers and purveyors of vitirol simply cannot abide by the same functionality. In fact, the real issue here is they have come up against someone who will call them to task and, without batting an eye, have the sheer audacity to disagree with them.

Robin, I simply cannot control the arrogance of those who will not accept contrary views and who choose instead to behave like schoolyard bullies.


Troll, indeed. I mean, the absolute gall!


Perhaps a mirror would be useful for them at this point.
Last edited by TimMc on Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:44 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Would you pay $500 dollars for a bottle of wine?

by Robin Garr » Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:30 pm

TimMc wrote:Perhaps a mirror would be useful for them at this point.


Okay, Tim. We've only had 669 people register on the new forum at this point. It doesn't seem that 668 of them have had this kind of problem. But probably you're right. I guess.

Remember our discussion about real names when you signed on, and I mentioned that we don't indulge screen names and handles because we find that most people behave better when they're not wearing a mask? I still think so ...
Last edited by Robin Garr on Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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TimMc

Re: Would you pay $500 dollars for a bottle of wine?

by TimMc » Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:33 pm

Robin Garr wrote:
TimMc wrote:Perhaps a mirror would be useful for them at this point.


Okay, Tim. We've only had 669 people register on the new forum at this point. It doesn't seem that 668 of them have had this kind of problem. But probably you're right. I guess.

Remember our discussion about real names when I signed on, and I mentioned that we don't indulge screen names and handles because we find that most people behave better when they're not wearing a mask? I still think so ...


Perhaps.

But when a given poster can hide behind a computer screen and spew the venomous posts I have been subjected to, I humbly suggest otherwise.
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Re: Would you pay $500 dollars for a bottle of wine?

by Robin Garr » Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:43 pm

TimMc wrote:But when a given poster can hide behind a computer screen and spew the venomous posts I have been subjected to, I humbly suggest otherwise.


Tim, an Internet troll by definition seeks to post provocative and controversial topics and skate the edge until his interlocutors eventually are driven beyond endurance and burst into flames, even knowing they shouldn't. Then the troll wins.

It's difficult for me to see any better explanation for what has happened here, and as the barkeep of this roadhouse on the Information Highway, my analysis is generally the one I live by.
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Re: Would you pay $500 dollars for a bottle of wine?

by TimMc » Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:50 pm

Robin Garr wrote:
TimMc wrote:But when a given poster can hide behind a computer screen and spew the venomous posts I have been subjected to, I humbly suggest otherwise.


Tim, an Internet troll by definition seeks to post provocative and controversial topics and skate the edge until his interlocutors eventually are driven beyond endurance and burst into flames, even knowing they shouldn't. Then the troll wins.

It's difficult for me to see any better explanation for what has happened here, and as the barkeep of this roadhouse on the Information Highway, my analysis is generally the one I live by.


Beg pardon.

A troll, by definition, is one who willfully flames, incites and/or behaves with complete disregard for his fellow posters and for personal pleasure.

To wit:

In Internet terminology, a troll is someone who comes into an established community such as an online discussion forum, and posts inflammatory, rude, repetitive or offensive messages designed intentionally to annoy or antagonize the existing members or disrupt the flow of discussion, including the personal attack of calling others trolls.

source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll


That hardly describes what I have posted on this or any other thread....unless, of course, if posting in contradiction to an opposing view or defending oneself is trollish. In that case, any of the viciousness directed towards me would fit very nicely into that category.



And you can bet the ranch on it.
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Re: Would you pay $500 dollars for a bottle of wine?

by Robin Garr » Tue Aug 22, 2006 12:09 am

I have nothing further to say, Tim. I'm done here.
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Re: Would you pay $500 dollars for a bottle of wine?

by TimMc » Tue Aug 22, 2006 12:14 am

Fair enough.

Peace to you, Robin.
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