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Q: '04 vs '05 Muscadet

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wrcstl

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Q: '04 vs '05 Muscadet

by wrcstl » Tue Sep 05, 2006 1:54 pm

Does anyone have any experience or TNs of '04 vs '05 Muscadet, particularly Pepiere and Luneau-Papin? Florida Jim, if you are out there what do you think?
Walt
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Re: Q: '04 vs '05 Muscadet

by Dave Erickson » Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:12 am

Both vintages are a vast improvement over the overcooked '03s. In general, my advice on muscadet is DYA. (Drink Youngest Available).
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Re: Q: '04 vs '05 Muscadet

by Robin Garr » Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:39 am

wrcstl wrote:Does anyone have any experience or TNs of '04 vs '05 Muscadet, particularly Pepiere and Luneau-Papin? Florida Jim, if you are out there what do you think?


I think Dave hit the nail on the head: In general, DYA, and the '05s and the '04s are both splendid. I've got some '05 Pepieres settling down from their trip and can hardly wait to try them, although after my sad experience in wasting a travel-shocked '05 Brun Beaujolais from the same box, I'm gun-shy and putting it off for a bit. I think they've settled down now, though.
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Re: Q: '04 vs '05 Muscadet

by Otto » Wed Sep 06, 2006 3:34 pm

Not with those producers, sorry. I've liked both very much (based on my limited sampling). The 04s are maybe more to my taste as they are zippier. The 05s are zippier than the 03s and are quite lovely, but very friendly and fruity. Though maybe with those producers things are different.
I don't drink wine because of religious reasons ... only for other reasons.
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Re: Q: '04 vs '05 Muscadet

by SFJoe » Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:40 pm

They are both fine vintages. '05 has a little more gras, '04 a little more zip. But you would be very happy with either, or both.

DYA is very poor advice IMO on these two producers, except for the cuvees in plastic cork. I've recently had Ollivier's wines back into the '80s, and an amazing taste of '76 Luneau-Papin L d'Or that rocked my world. I still have almost a case of L-P's '89 L d'Or, having consumed probably another case in great joy. The wine is in no danger of going over the hill. I only wish I had more than a couple of bottles of Ollivier's '96 Clos des Briords left. The wine is still young.

OTOH, it is probably time to drink up '93 Briords. In the next few years.

Not that they aren't delicious young, but if you have storage you should keep some.
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Re: Q: '04 vs '05 Muscadet

by wrcstl » Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:45 pm

[quote="SFJoe"]
DYA is very poor advice IMO on these two producers, except for the cuvees in plastic cork. I've recently had Ollivier's wines back into the '80s, and an amazing taste of '76 Luneau-Papin L d'Or that rocked my world. I still have almost a case of L-P's '89 L d'Or, having consumed probably another case in great joy. The wine is in no danger of going over the hill. I only wish I had more than a couple of bottles of Ollivier's '96 Clos des Briords left. The wine is still young.
quote]

Joe,
Thanks for the comments. I tend to drink all of my wines with age on them and DYA seemed a little extreme for these two producers but maybe more of a personal preference. I had the '99 PAPIN CLOS DES ALLIES this weekend and it was fantastic. Can't seem to hold on to them long enough to age. Was just curious about '04 vs '05. Will be getting some '05 from CSW and found 2002 Luneau-Papin Muscadet Sèvre et Maine sur Lie "L d'Or" and 2004 Luneau-Papin Muscadet Pierre de la Grange at Crush which I will order. Any comments on these two wines?
Walt
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Re: Q: '04 vs '05 Muscadet

by SFJoe » Thu Sep 07, 2006 6:40 pm

L d'Or is the wine to age, Pierre de la Grange to drink sooner.

The '99 Clos des Allees is beautiful juice. I am all out, but still have a few '97s.
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Re: Q: '04 vs '05 Muscadet

by wrcstl » Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:11 am

SFJoe wrote:L d'Or is the wine to age, Pierre de la Grange to drink sooner.

The '99 Clos des Allees is beautiful juice. I am all out, but still have a few '97s.


SFJoe

Have I got the hierarchy correct on these two producers, good to best cuvee

Domaine de la Pepiere (Marc Ollivier)
Sur lie - regular bottling
Eden
Clos des Briords - most ageworthy

Luneau Papin
de la Grange - estate wine, drinks early
Clos Allees
Ld'Or - top cuvee

Is the only one with possible artificial cork porblems Sur Lie?

Thanks for the help, know you guys in NYC are Muscadet geeks.
Walt
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Re: Q: '04 vs '05 Muscadet

by SFJoe » Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:49 am

wrcstl wrote:
SFJoe wrote:L d'Or is the wine to age, Pierre de la Grange to drink sooner.

The '99 Clos des Allees is beautiful juice. I am all out, but still have a few '97s.


SFJoe

Have I got the hierarchy correct on these two producers, good to best cuvee

Domaine de la Pepiere (Marc Ollivier)
Sur lie - regular bottling
Eden
Clos des Briords - most ageworthy

Luneau Papin
de la Grange - estate wine, drinks early
Clos Allees
Ld'Or - top cuvee

Is the only one with possible artificial cork porblems Sur Lie?

Thanks for the help, know you guys in NYC are Muscadet geeks.
Walt


There are a few more wines that didn't make your list. I don't have the urge to rank-order them, they are different wines. The Eden, for instance, is in the more typical gneiss and schiste of Muscadet, and in many ways is a very good version of that sort of thing. The Pepiere is excellent stuff in its own right, and ages well, but probably shouldn't be kept now since it has shorter-term closures. Both the Pepiere and the Briords are in granite. Less than 10% of Muscadet has granite soil, so these are unusual wines. I love them, but you could make a case that they are oddballs. Or, you could call them grands crus.

Both producers are taking some old-vine sites, pruning them for very low yields, aging them at least 2 years on the lees, and otherwise making special bottlings of them. These haven't been released. A bit more about them buried here

Marc also has a bottling called Moulin de Gustaie that is from younger vines in gneiss. Luneau has several other wines, not all of them imported to the US.
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Re: Q: '04 vs '05 Muscadet

by wrcstl » Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:21 pm

SFJoe wrote:Both producers are taking some old-vine sites, pruning them for very low yields, aging them at least 2 years on the lees, and otherwise making special bottlings of them. These haven't been released. A bit more about them buried here


SFJoe,
Thanks for all the info. Making a 2-3 case raid in CSW and Crush, mostly '05 Briords and '02 & '04 L d'Or plus a few bottles of '05 sur lie for early drinking.
Walt

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