Ed Novak wrote:...And even if I don't change my mind immediately, what's the down side? I can always revisit this again and again.
Ryan Maderak wrote:Covert wrote:My guess is that Ed will never find a Bordeaux to be great, just by comparing his speak with other people with whom I have had experience and whose oenophilic outcomes I have observed over time.
I'm afraid I don't agree with your logic here Covert. Show me a single wine-lover whose tastes never evolved from their intial preferences, and maybe I'll acknowledge the possiblity that you could conceivably be right. My own beginnings in wine were quite humble, although it is true I was always curious and receptive to new regions and styles. Ed seems to show a healthy vinous curiosity, and he wants to learn. I certainly wouldn't write him off regarding Bordeaux . . . . or any other wine for that matter.
Covert wrote:Ryan Maderak wrote:I did not grok curiosity or receptiveness from Ed's speak.
Ryan Maderak wrote:Covert wrote:Show me a single wine-lover whose tastes never evolved from their intial preferences, and maybe I'll acknowledge the possiblity that you could conceivably be right.
Ryan Maderak wrote:Covert wrote:Ryan Maderak wrote:I did not grok curiosity or receptiveness from Ed's speak.
But he came here and asked the question - as Jenise said, that by itself suggests a healthy degree of curiosity. He has told us that while he is currently perplexed by Bordeaux, he wants to understand it. Whether or not he ever finds it to his liking is less important than the fact that he at least wants to try to understand it. Many beginners would simply conclude they didn't like it and not look back.
Sorry Ed, that we've devolved into arguing about you. I'm really happy to have you and your obviously healthy curiosity here with us!
Covert wrote:Shit, I deleted that statement within 30 seconds from the time I posted it because I realized I had made a mistake. but somehow you grabbed it.
Ian Sutton wrote:My own example posted earlier is a part-contradiction of your assertion - in that the wines that first hooked me still offer interest today. However to those wines, others have been added. Whether my tastes changed, or I just gained a wider experience, I don't know.
Covert wrote:I'm not operating from logic. I will leave it to you left-brainers to do that. I am coming from intuition; and I said it was a guess, which is just a fun thing to do, not a fact or even an opinion. I probably would have guessed you would evolve.
Ed Novak wrote:Ok... I know someone out there will jump all over me for what I'm about stir up, but here goes. I've been in the wine camp now for about 2 years, formally a die hard beer drinker. During these two plus years I've found that with food I can enjoy just about any wine, if paired properly. I'd put Cabs at the top of my list followed closely by almost all Italian wines, Tempranillos and Gernaches. My biggest disappointment to date? Bordeaux. I've tried a number of Bordeauxes... priced usually in the $10 to $20 a bottle range... 2006, 2008, 2009... and in general they all taste a little thin to me. Much like my experience with Pinot Noirs. If I have to make a general comment about both, I'd have to say watery.. thin... Having said all that, seems like in a game of word association, the phrase "great wine" would point towards France for many... and French wine would point you towards Bordeaux. So what am I missing?
Ryan Maderak wrote:My intended meaning of 'evolution' in this case is that tastes become broader, not that they leave something behind. So no contradiction at all. In fact, I'll second your sentiment by noting that I many case I like wines from early in wine-drinking life more , because I now understand why I like them.
Ryan Maderak wrote:Oh, sorry Covert - no plot on my part, promise.
My intended meaning of 'evolution' in this case is that tastes become broader, not that they leave something behind. So no contradiction at all. In fact, I'll second your sentiment by noting that I many case I like wines from early in wine-drinking life more , because I now understand why I like them.
Covert wrote: I am not blaming you; although I know that's how it came off
A more evolved person than I might eschew obsessing about wine and do something for humanity with his time. I hope Ed just enjoys whatever he enjoys. He seems like a really cool guy.
Jenise wrote:Covert wrote:I'm not operating from logic. I will leave it to you left-brainers to do that. I am coming from intuition; and I said it was a guess, which is just a fun thing to do, not a fact or even an opinion. I probably would have guessed you would evolve.
So yes, it was love at first sight for you. Also, that was true for me with a bottle I bought in a grocery store, which was either a Bailly or a Batailley...and then nothing until I moved to Alaska and went to a sitdown tasting where all the wines were 86 thru 90 classed growths, including some Firsts. You'd have thought, knowing me now, that this would have sealed the deal, but no, by then my tastes were too tuned into richer, better, fully oaked CalCabs than I'd been drinking back in the Bailly or Baitailley days, and the comparatively fruitless Bordeauxs didn't appeal to me at all. Fortunately, I believed I was supposed to like them so bought a few anyway, and one of those bottles opened a few months later is what finally lit the fire. And that's why I have hope for Ed.
Ed Novak wrote:Covert... no harm done. I knew when I made the post that there were a few comments that would stir the pot. That said, at this point in my wine adventure that's where I'm at so I was looking forward to see what others would say. I"m looking forward to trying some of the suggestions offered here. One thing I didn't mention was that about a year ago I had a glass or two of a Bordeaux paired with a nice venison dish at a local restaurant (combination restaurant and wine merchant). I remember the pairing being very nice. Unfortunately the restaurant has closed so can't go back to find out what the wine was. So I haven't written off Bordeaux, just need feel the magic again. Thanks again.
Covert wrote:Because many people consider the appreciation of Bordeaux to be somewhat intellectual