Kitchen Remodel Help.

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Re: Kitchen Remodel Help.

Postby Jenise » Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:11 pm

Barb, yes such things are mandated here. Codes here are state and not federal so our American situatons aren't identical, but here in WA state code required me to have an outlets at just the spacing you reccomend. I had to tell my electrician to "lose it" (we were not a permitted project) when it came to the glass-supported serving counter that divides my prep space from guests on the other side. I was NOT going to build outlets into that glass wall. But there are, of course, outlets at either side. :)
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Re: Kitchen Remodel Help.

Postby Carl Eppig » Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:06 pm

Here in New Hampshire the code is one outlet every five feet, so if your kitchen is fifteen feet long you would have three outlets on each side for a total of six. Of course you can always tell the contrator to add more where you would like them.
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Re: Kitchen Remodel Help.

Postby Jim Cassidy » Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:57 pm

When laying out your cabinets, make sure the primary dish storage is not directly over the dishwasher; optimum is above but one unit to either side.
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Re: Kitchen Remodel Help.

Postby Mark Lipton » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:25 pm

'Winger, here's my advice from remodels in the past:

1. Consider carefully your power needs and rewire accordingly, especially considering how many 240 V outlets you may want. Make sure that you have enough circuits with enough wattage devoted to kitchen appliances and outlets.

2. Maximize the amount of useful counter space available. Corners are inefficient; islands are good. Avoid fragmenting the counter space to the greatest extent possible. If you and NJ ever cohabit the kitchen, you'll appreciate having as much counter space as possible to avoid bumping into each other.

3. Don't move the sink if you can avoid it as that just adds a huge plumbing bill to the total, but feel free to replace the sucker.

4. Consider whether you want a range or separate cooktops and ovens. The latter certainly adds flexibility and permit you to place the former in one of those corners that aren't terribly useful as counter space.

5. Make sure that you've got duct work installed for good ventilation.

6. Consider what types of storage space you need. Do you want vertical shelving for baking sheets? Lazy susans for under-counter storage? Pull-out shelving?

Have fun and post pictures, Bill.

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Re: Kitchen Remodel Help.

Postby Jenise » Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:29 am

Bill, I want to add something for your consideration. Not a 'regret' which is actually what you asked for, but something I'd regret if I hadn't done it even though I didn't know what I was doing at the time. :) That is, I bought a huge double sink, a Franke, that was like 39" across instead of the typical 32"--simply because I had the real estate available and I thought it would be cool. Why not have a sink large enough (and deep enough, it's 2" deeper than the smaller sink) to wash sheet pans in as long as I had space for it plus a smaller sink for the average stuff? As it has worked out, we use the smaller sink almost exclusively for handwashing the things that have to be cleaned that way (like pots and pans) and the large deep sink for draining and drying those things. Because it's so large and so deep, and because I cook every day, it can and IS full of stuff all the time but in a way that's virtually invisible. That is, my kitchen ALWAYS looks neat and tidy even though the drain basket is rarely empty. And on the occasions I need a larger sink for a big job, I just lift the drain basket out of the way. But the truth is I rarely need it as the smaller sink is adequate for cleaning sheet pans unless for some reason they need a major soak. Buying that sink was accidentally and yet by far one of the most useful decisions I made.
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Re: Kitchen Remodel Help.

Postby Carl Eppig » Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:12 pm

Jenise wrote:That is, I bought a huge double sink, a Franke, that was like 39" across instead of the typical 32"--simply because I had the real estate available and I thought it would be cool. Why not have a sink large enough (and deep enough, it's 2" deeper than the smaller sink) to wash sheet pans in as long as I had space for it plus a smaller sink for the average stuff?


We have an American Standard with the same demensions as yours in the larger sink. It is great to be able to lay a sheet pan flat! Ours is also 39 inches total for both sinks.
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Re: Kitchen Remodel Help.

Postby Jenise » Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:23 pm

Carl Eppig wrote:We have an American Standard with the same demensions as yours in the larger sink. It is great to be able to lay a sheet pan flat! Ours is also 39 inches total for both sinks.


Weren't we clever? :wink:
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Re: Kitchen Remodel Help.

Postby Mike Filigenzi » Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:48 pm

Carl Eppig wrote:
Jenise wrote:That is, I bought a huge double sink, a Franke, that was like 39" across instead of the typical 32"--simply because I had the real estate available and I thought it would be cool. Why not have one sink large enough (and deep enough, it's 2" deeper than the smaller sink) to wash sheet pans in as long as I had space for it plus a smaller sink for the average stuff?


We have an American Standard with the same demensions as yours in the larger sink. It is great to be able to lay a sheet pan flat! Ours is also 39 inches total for both sinks.


Man, wish we had the space to do that.

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Re: Kitchen Remodel Help.

Postby Jenise » Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:19 pm

Mike, wish you did, too. It's only another 7 inches over standard but in an older footprint already deficient in counter space it's understandable that it wouldn't be an option.
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Re: Kitchen Remodel Help.

Postby Redwinger » Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:49 am

Thanks for all the great suggestions. We will most likely wait until June-July to start to take full advantage of nicer grilling weather (we do grill year 'round) and put some family visits behind us. These gatherings are difficult enough without trying to do them when the house is torn up. Plan on meeting with a designer tomorrow and then start lining up a contractor and a structural engineer to make sure we maintain structural integrity.

Essentially, what we plan to do is:
1. Knock down a wall and enlarge the kitchen.
2. Re-use as many existing cabinets as possible. They are only a few years old, in great shape, we love 'em. They are manufactured locally and the cabinet maker can match any new cabinetry to the existing without a problem.
3. Replace the Corian counters with granite and add a large stainless sink. I don't think we'll have enough room for a prep sink.
4. New Appliances
5. Add an island and/or a breakfast bar. NJ does a lot of baking and requires as much counter space as we can comfortably accommodate in the available space.
6. New tile flooring.
7. We are still debating the cooktop vs. Range thing, but a dual oven is a must have.
8. Shrink the size of our huge walk in pantry and free up more floor space for the kitchen proper.

Thanks again, folks.
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Re: Kitchen Remodel Help.

Postby Carl Eppig » Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:56 pm

Sounds like a great plan. Looking forward to the day when we can say: "Love it when a plan comes together."
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Re: Kitchen Remodel Help.

Postby Carrie L. » Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:54 am

Redwinger wrote:7. We are still debating the cooktop vs. Range thing, but a dual oven is a must have.



Winger, I highly recommend this range. We love the flexibility of using the small oven when it's just the two of us, or we are not needing to use a huge pan, and it's a great extra oven for times when you need two going at once. We also have a warming drawer so that comes in handy too.
(Photo taken before we moved in, thus all the bareness surrounding it!)
Viking Range.jpg
Viking Range.jpg (42.61 KiB) Viewed 4497 times
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Re: Kitchen Remodel Help.

Postby Redwinger » Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:01 pm

Carrie-
Nice kitchen!
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Re: Kitchen Remodel Help.

Postby Cynthia Wenslow » Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:04 pm

Carrie L. wrote:(Photo taken before we moved in, thus all the bareness surrounding it!)


Gorgeous.
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Re: Kitchen Remodel Help.

Postby Barb Downunder » Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:07 am

[7. We are still debating the cooktop vs. Range thing, but a dual oven is a must have.

]
An option which can save space is to have a single oven and a convection-microwave oven. this is the path I am going down in the current renovation. I am a fan of things that do more than one job, provided they do both things well, and the combo oven I have been playing with seems to do both well.
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Re: Kitchen Remodel Help.

Postby Jenise » Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:32 pm

Carrie L. wrote:
Redwinger wrote:7. We are still debating the cooktop vs. Range thing, but a dual oven is a must have.



Winger, I highly recommend this range. We love the flexibility of using the small oven when it's just the two of us, or we are not needing to use a huge pan, and it's a great extra oven for times when you need two going at once. We also have a warming drawer so that comes in handy too.
(Photo taken before we moved in, thus all the bareness surrounding it!)
Viking Range.jpg


Just like mine, but interesting (or not), your flattop is in what might be called Bay #2, where my grill is in Bay #3. I didn't get a choice about where it would go, it was just there. I presumed too that if I had gotten a flattop it would be in the same position, but maybe not. Hopefully your oven is electric, not gas like mine. Such a mistake I made.
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Re: Kitchen Remodel Help.

Postby Carrie L. » Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:40 pm

Jenise wrote:
Carrie L. wrote:
Redwinger wrote:7. We are still debating the cooktop vs. Range thing, but a dual oven is a must have.



I presumed too that if I had gotten a flattop it would be in the same position, but maybe not. Hopefully your oven is electric, not gas like mine. Such a mistake I made.


No, ours is gas too. It is pretty inconsistent. Is that the problem you have with it? I do feel too that the knobs have too much "play" in them...probably about 25 degrees worth.

Redwinger and Cynthia, thanks for the compliment. It, and the view out back is what sold us on the house.
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Re: Kitchen Remodel Help.

Postby Cynthia Wenslow » Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:26 pm

Carrie L. wrote:No, ours is gas too. It is pretty inconsistent.


Since we have yet to build a wood burning pizza oven, we always want a gas oven as they tend to get much hotter in the standard residential models. The place we were in in Montana had an electric oven that only went to 500, which seems pretty standard from what I've seen. In fact, when we moved to Austin, an electric oven was the first thing on the list to rule out a rental house. Out current gas oven is very consistent, but it also has a digital temperature setting.

(Yes, It's all about the pizza. 8) )

Although, I will say that when we are finally someplace we're going to actually settle, I'll need double electric convection ovens as well as the wood burning one!
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Re: Kitchen Remodel Help.

Postby Jenise » Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:41 pm

Carrie L. wrote:
No, ours is gas too. It is pretty inconsistent. Is that the problem you have with it? I do feel too that the knobs have too much "play" in them...probably about 25 degrees worth.

Redwinger and Cynthia, thanks for the compliment. It, and the view out back is what sold us on the house.


Yes, at least 25 degrees. But as someone who cooks more by instinct and is pretty inclined to cook more at 200, 300 and 400 than anywhere in between, that's okay. The problem so far has been reliability--did you read the thread about the fireball that came out of mine and scorched my clothing, not to mention scaring me to death?
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Re: Kitchen Remodel Help.

Postby Carrie L. » Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:10 pm

Jenise wrote: The problem so far has been reliability--did you read the thread about the fireball that came out of mine and scorched my clothing, not to mention scaring me to death?


Wow, somehow I'd missed that threat! Yikes! What ever became of your large oven. Has it been checked out and is it back in use? Fortunately we haven't had any issues whatsoever with it other than the extra "play" in the knobs creating inconsistent (and trial by error) temperatures.

Also, do you have the grill or the griddle? If it's the griddle, ours is also pretty worthless. I made French Toast on it and some of it was burning while the others weren't cooking at all.
All of our appliances in this house are Viking, including the dishwasher, which we just had repaired to the tune of $800!

So I'll ammend my recommendation of the oven to Redwinger. It's the configuration of the range/ovens that I like. Love having a big and a little...
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Re: Kitchen Remodel Help.

Postby Jenise » Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:42 pm

Carrie L. wrote: Love having a big and a little...


He's going to take that wrong. :)

I have the grill. And it's very uneven. The 30 year old Jennair I replaced in my old kitchen worked better than my Viking, so I rarely use it for meat, mostly vegetables and breads. But I too love having a big and a little. :)
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Re: Kitchen Remodel Help.

Postby Mark Lipton » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:04 am

Cynthia Wenslow wrote:
Carrie L. wrote:No, ours is gas too. It is pretty inconsistent.


Since we have yet to build a wood burning pizza oven, we always want a gas oven as they tend to get much hotter in the standard residential models. The place we were in in Montana had an electric oven that only went to 500, which seems pretty standard from what I've seen. In fact, when we moved to Austin, an electric oven was the first thing on the list to rule out a rental house. Out current gas oven is very consistent, but it also has a digital temperature setting.

(Yes, It's all about the pizza. 8) )

Although, I will say that when we are finally someplace we're going to actually settle, I'll need double electric convection ovens as well as the wood burning one!


Actually, Cynthia, electric ovens are normally capable of getting quite a bit hotter than gas ovens, in addition to being self-cleaning and far more constant in temperature maintenance. That's why I've got an electric convection oven despite being a hardcore gas cooktop devotee. In fact, those two preferences, combined with my desire not to gut the kitchen and do a total makeover, were what forced my choice for a new range to the Thermidor 30" mixed fuel range. Mercifully, I have been reasonably satisfied with the product itself. Back to the original point, my electric oven will go to 550° normally, but to 700° in its cleaning cycle. Enterprising pizza cooks have figured out how to rig their ovens to cook using the cleaning cycle. Having a healthy respect for safety issues, I prefer to use the 550° setting with a pizza stone. At that temp, the pizzas are done in less than 5 min.

Or, you could always cook your pizzas on the grill. :D

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Re: Kitchen Remodel Help.

Postby Cynthia Wenslow » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:13 am

Mark Lipton wrote: Enterprising pizza cooks have figured out how to rig their ovens to cook using the cleaning cycle. Having a healthy respect for safety issues, I prefer to use the 550° setting with a pizza stone. At that temp, the pizzas are done in less than 5 min.


Well, Stuart has "modified" ovens in the past, but we don't actually own this oven, so...

At the moment we do use our commercial grade stone at 550. We let it preheat a long time.

We're not huge fans of grilled pizza, but we've never bothered to use our stone out there, which I'm sure would improve things considerably.
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Re: Kitchen Remodel Help.

Postby Redwinger » Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:57 pm

After three "heading exploding" meetings with the kitch. design person, I believe we have a floor plan/foot print that will work for us. It appears that we will be able to utilize 80%+ of our existing custom cabinetry, which we like, and merely add a few new base units and a utility cabinet along one wall. Matching the cabinets should not be an issue since the company/factory is local (5 miles from our front door) and they will match the stain/glaze and door styles. Oh, I forgot about the island which NJ was pushing for. With one wall pushed back three feet we now have room for a modest sized island. The walk-in pantry (junk collector) will be eliminated and replaced with cabinet type pantry which will gives us more useable kitchen space.

We still have not decided on quartz vs. granite counter tops.

Once we have the floor plan/design completely nailed down and cabinet $$ firmed up, the next step will be to select a contractor to make sure we can bring in the project on budget. Budget? Wait, we haven't even decided what our budget is, but this is a project that is getting done. Period.

That's all. My head hurts and if I was a drinking man, I'd waive the "5 O'clock rule".
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