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Craig Winchell

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Re: You be the Judge / WeeksEnd wine

by Craig Winchell » Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:19 pm

Thanks guys. Looks like I'm avoiding surgery, but these complications from the pneumonia are just going on and on. On the bright side, I've lost a solid 25 pounds.
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Isaac C

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Re: You be the Judge / WeeksEnd wine

by Isaac C » Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:48 pm

Craig - Refuah Shleima!

Friday night I had the Ella Valley Cabernet Sauvignon Vineyard's Choice 2005 and it was phenomenal, drinking great right now, fruity, long finish, with notes of vanilla, full bodied and extremely smooth with very soft tannins. Finished it Shabbos day, and had a homebrew dubbel and a St. Bernardus 12.
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Adam M

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Re: You be the Judge / WeeksEnd wine

by Adam M » Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:43 pm

Craig - wishing you a speed and complete recovery. adam
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Marc G

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Re: You be the Judge / WeeksEnd wine

by Marc G » Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:45 pm

Finished the leftover wine from the Thurs night tasting.
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Jonathan K

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Re: You be the Judge / WeeksEnd wine

by Jonathan K » Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:46 pm

Adam M wrote:2010 Carmel kayoumi white dry Riesling
2004 Hagafen Prix Melange - I was expecting more for this wine given the high rating and price tag.i
It tasted slightly over the hill, which is disappointingly vein that I have had it in my cellar since I purchaed it a few years ago from the winery.


Oh boy. I have stuck with the Prix Melange 2003 and 2004 since they came out and I have found them to be hard-edged and uninviting. But my experience with really good meritage is that often it is kind of a waste of time to make judgment on them prior to about 10 years from vintage date. I hope that the problem was something other than the wine being over the hill. I keep holding out hope that I will open one of these one day and it will be wonderful, and not a very expensive mistake. I will break one out soon.
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Pinchas L

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Re: You be the Judge / WeeksEnd wine

by Pinchas L » Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:11 pm

Jonathan K wrote:
Adam M wrote:2010 Carmel kayoumi white dry Riesling
2004 Hagafen Prix Melange - I was expecting more for this wine given the high rating and price tag.i
It tasted slightly over the hill, which is disappointingly vein that I have had it in my cellar since I purchaed it a few years ago from the winery.


Oh boy. I have stuck with the Prix Melange 2003 and 2004 since they came out and I have found them to be hard-edged and uninviting. But my experience with really good meritage is that often it is kind of a waste of time to make judgment on them prior to about 10 years from vintage date. I hope that the problem was something other than the wine being over the hill. I keep holding out hope that I will open one of these one day and it will be wonderful, and not a very expensive mistake. I will break one out soon.


Hi Jonathan,

If it is reassuring, I'll add that I have several bottles of the '04 and a case of the '05. I still intend on sticking by my original plans to drink them once they have more than 10 years of bottle age. I also have plenty of the Prix late Harvest Chardonnay '06 that Yossi has panned. Seemingly different people trust different producers. When I speak poorly of some of Yarden's wines, others come to their defense, arguing that they should be held for ten years before drinking. Those very same people don't give Ernie's wines the same respect. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about it, just making a statement about the varying degree of comfort that people have regarding different producers.

I've had several of Ernie's regular Cabernet Sauvignon bottlings of late, from '03 and '04 and they are still in their prime. I cannot fathom that his Melange will not show at least as well. Although the Melange was tasty upon release, it was meant for the long haul, and a bottle I had about two years ago, did not show its special qualities, but while I might describe it as closed, I would not call it over-the-hill.

Best,
-> Pinchas
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Jonathan K

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Re: You be the Judge / WeeksEnd wine

by Jonathan K » Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:08 pm

Pinchas L wrote:
Jonathan K wrote:
Adam M wrote:2010 Carmel kayoumi white dry Riesling
2004 Hagafen Prix Melange - I was expecting more for this wine given the high rating and price tag.i
It tasted slightly over the hill, which is disappointingly vein that I have had it in my cellar since I purchaed it a few years ago from the winery.


Oh boy. I have stuck with the Prix Melange 2003 and 2004 since they came out and I have found them to be hard-edged and uninviting. But my experience with really good meritage is that often it is kind of a waste of time to make judgment on them prior to about 10 years from vintage date. I hope that the problem was something other than the wine being over the hill. I keep holding out hope that I will open one of these one day and it will be wonderful, and not a very expensive mistake. I will break one out soon.


Hi Jonathan,

If it is reassuring, I'll add that I have several bottles of the '04 and a case of the '05. I still intend on sticking by my original plans to drink them once they have more than 10 years of bottle age. I also have plenty of the Prix late Harvest Chardonnay '06 that Yossi has panned. Seemingly different people trust different producers. When I speak poorly of some of Yarden's wines, others come to their defense, arguing that they should be held for ten years before drinking. Those very same people don't give Ernie's wines the same respect. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about it, just making a statement about the varying degree of comfort that people have regarding different producers.

I've had several of Ernie's regular Cabernet Sauvignon bottlings of late, from '03 and '04 and they are still in their prime. I cannot fathom that his Melange will not show at least as well. Although the Melange was tasty upon release, it was meant for the long haul, and a bottle I had about two years ago, did not show its special qualities, but while I might describe it as closed, I would not call it over-the-hill.

Best,
-> Pinchas


Pinchas,
Thanks. The last Melange I opened was a 2003 about a year ago, and while it lacked charm, it did not seem to be approaching over-the-hill. I just figured it wasn't ready.
Interesting, I am not a big dessert wine guy, but I liked the Prix Late Harvest Chardonnay. I opened a bottle for some non-Jewish wine snobs and they liked it quite a bit as well.
Overall, I haven't found the value in the Prix Series though. I liked the Zinfandel quite a bit, but the Pinot Noirs I have found lacking. Again, I am hoping that they need a little more bottle age. The Cabernet Sauvignons have been OK but I again just felt they weren't really ready. In general, I am still waiting to be convinced that these wines are worth the price tag, but I haven't given up.

Kol Tuv,
Jonathan
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Harry J

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Re: You be the Judge / WeeksEnd wine

by Harry J » Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:16 pm

Once again golan cab 2010 and once again think this wine will tatse even better around Pesach time . h
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Marc G

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Re: You be the Judge / WeeksEnd wine

by Marc G » Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:55 pm

I have been cellaring and drinking Hagafen since 2002. Hagafen along with Yarden are by far the most reliable wines for cellaring. I even opened a 95 Cab from magnum this Passover which was really wonderful if only for 20 minutes in the glass. The 01's are still exellent and even the 99 has some charm. I had the 04 Prix Melange a few months ago and found it really good. If I remember correctly it was a little tight and had some more yrs left. Maybe the one you had was off somehow. I would expect the Melange along with the PRix cabs to drink well for 12 plus yrs. On a side note I believe the 04 was the first Melange so maybe the 03 you are talking about is the Prix Cab. Oh and I love the 06 Late Harvest Chard. No better kosher dessert wine than that.
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Stacey B

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Re: You be the Judge / WeeksEnd wine

by Stacey B » Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:28 pm

Friday night- Recanati Petit Syrah Zinfandel 2010 limited edition
Shabbat day Gush etzion Cabernet Franc 2007, Psagot Cab Franc 2010
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David Raccah

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Re: You be the Judge / WeeksEnd wine

by David Raccah » Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:44 pm

Stacey B wrote:Friday night- Recanati Petit Syrah Zinfandel 2010 limited edition
Shabbat day Gush etzion Cabernet Franc 2007, Psagot Cab Franc 2010


Nice wines! Did you find the 07 Gush Cab Franc to be heading down hill? The Psagot 2010 is it nice?

David
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Stacey B

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Re: You be the Judge / WeeksEnd wine

by Stacey B » Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:53 pm

The Gush 2007 was beautiful, elegant and full and we enjoyed it very much.It is drinking really well at this point.The Psagot holds the promise of a truer Cab Franc though with its herbacious undertones. It is young but I enjoyed it and will try one in several months again.
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Pinchas L

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Re: You be the Judge / WeeksEnd wine

by Pinchas L » Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:15 am

Jonathan K wrote:Pinchas,
Thanks. The last Melange I opened was a 2003 about a year ago, and while it lacked charm, it did not seem to be approaching over-the-hill. I just figured it wasn't ready.
Interesting, I am not a big dessert wine guy, but I liked the Prix Late Harvest Chardonnay. I opened a bottle for some non-Jewish wine snobs and they liked it quite a bit as well.
Overall, I haven't found the value in the Prix Series though. I liked the Zinfandel quite a bit, but the Pinot Noirs I have found lacking. Again, I am hoping that they need a little more bottle age. The Cabernet Sauvignons have been OK but I again just felt they weren't really ready. In general, I am still waiting to be convinced that these wines are worth the price tag, but I haven't given up.

Kol Tuv,
Jonathan


Hi Jonathan,

At this point I hoenestly haven't formed my own opinion on the value of the Prix label, but given my respect for Ernie I've decided to spend time and money on figuring this out. One of the conclusions I've reached is that regardless of the winemaker's overall skill, it is unlikely that all the wines they produce will be universally good. Like you, I've purchased a substantial amount of wines across the spectrum of Ernie's labels, and I've concluded that amongst the red wines his Pinot and Merlot are not of interest to me, and in part that is due to the fact that Napa is not known for these varieties. On the other hand his Cabernet Sauvignon and to some degree his Syrahs are wonederful expressions of the Californian style. His whites are also wonderful and long lived, though one should pick and choose those that match one's tastes.

Best Regards,
-> Pinchas
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Elie Poltorak

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Re: You be the Judge / WeeksEnd wine

by Elie Poltorak » Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:54 am

Stacey B wrote:The Gush 2007 was beautiful, elegant and full and we enjoyed it very much.It is drinking really well at this point.The Psagot holds the promise of a truer Cab Franc though with its herbacious undertones. It is young but I enjoyed it and will try one in several months again.

I had the '07 Gush CF as well this past shabbos and I thought it's definitely in drink-up mode. When I opened the bottle, there was a strong vinegary smell. That blew off eventually and the wine was very enjoyable (although as Stacy indicated, you wouldn't identify it as a cab franc in a blind tasting). I think it's sliding past its peak and definitely wouldn't wait to drink any remaining bottles. That's why I scored it a B (although once you get past the off-notes, it's quite good--B++).
I just got a bottle of the Psagot CF and look forward to trying it--perhaps this shabbos.
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Gabriel Geller

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Re: You be the Judge / WeeksEnd wine

by Gabriel Geller » Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:33 am

Marc G wrote:Oh and I love the 06 Late Harvest Chard. No better kosher dessert wine than that.

Marc, you must try Tzuba Late Harvest Chardonnay N.V.!
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Re: You be the Judge / WeeksEnd wine

by Jonathan K » Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:49 pm

Marc G wrote:I have been cellaring and drinking Hagafen since 2002. Hagafen along with Yarden are by far the most reliable wines for cellaring. I even opened a 95 Cab from magnum this Passover which was really wonderful if only for 20 minutes in the glass. The 01's are still exellent and even the 99 has some charm. I had the 04 Prix Melange a few months ago and found it really good. If I remember correctly it was a little tight and had some more yrs left. Maybe the one you had was off somehow. I would expect the Melange along with the PRix cabs to drink well for 12 plus yrs. On a side note I believe the 04 was the first Melange so maybe the 03 you are talking about is the Prix Cab. Oh and I love the 06 Late Harvest Chard. No better kosher dessert wine than that.



Well that is not the first time that I got the vintage wrong from memory rather than actually checking. The two Melanges I have are the 2004 and 2005. The one I opened most recently was the 2004. I will probably hold off on opening another anytime soon (although I have said that before) because I just don't think I am going to get the best out of it for a few more years. I do have the Prix Weir CS 2003 and 2004(actually the 2004 is labeled "Hagafen" with a black label(?), and I may open one of those soon.

L'chaim!!
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Gabriel Geller

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Re: You be the Judge / WeeksEnd wine

by Gabriel Geller » Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:21 pm

With dinner tonight, some good booze...

Hevron Heights, Makhpela 2007: One of the top-tier wines of this highly controversial winery, especially on this forum. While I've tasted many wines in the past from HHW that I didn't like, I've recently discovered some that I really love, and this is one of those. The label states Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot and... Marzane Noir. What?? Never heard of that one before. Well, I must admit that I didn't run an in-depth check but according to Wikipedia, Marzane Noire is just another synonym for Syrah. Anyway the wine was fermented (each variety separately as I understand for 12-14 months before the final blending) 20 months in french and american oak barrels. Deep garnet, full-bodied with on the nose an interesting scent that I could best describe as milk chocolate-covered cherries along with raspberries and hints of cardamon, the palate of this mature yet lively wine shows elegance and fine structure with a distinctly old world character with raspberries, red cherries, plums as well as spicy oak and milk chocolate with integrated tannins on a moderately long finish. The wine is clearly at its peak and throws some sediment but I believe should hold another 12-18 months, anyway really nice and interesting wine, I'd advise to drink up soon if you've some bottles left.

Bravdo, Shiraz 2009: Deep, almost impenetrable garnet with purple reflections, full-bodied with on the nose ripe bursting rapsberries and plums as well as black pepper, these showing on the palate with strong, not yet integrated tannins and bracing acidity, blackberries, black plums, cracked pepper, spicy oak and cigar box with light notes of smoke and cloves on a very long finish. A big wine with a nice potential for further development. I almost regret having opened it today. :oops:

Best,

GG
Last edited by Gabriel Geller on Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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David Raccah

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Re: You be the Judge / WeeksEnd wine

by David Raccah » Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:24 pm

Dude - the 2009 shiraz should be started middle of next year! Me no touchy any of Bravdo's 2003 wines till then! The 2010 are more accessible in some ways now than the 2009!

Lovely wines indeed!
David
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Stacey B

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Re: You be the Judge / WeeksEnd wine

by Stacey B » Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:08 am

Tuesday night Dalton Oak Aged Petit Syrah 2009
Wednesday night BR Cohn Cab Sauvingon
BTW on the Bravdo we have only tried the Cabernet from the 2009's we are still waiting on the Merlot, Shiraz and Coupage.
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Gabriel Geller

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Re: You be the Judge / WeeksEnd wine

by Gabriel Geller » Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:53 am

Stacey B wrote:Tuesday night Dalton Oak Aged Petit Syrah 2009

Hi Stacey, if you still have left some bottles of this one I'd happily trade one with a 2010 or any other wine you like in the same range. 8) Never had the luck to taste the 2009 as it vanished from the shelves in Israel in no time last year!
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Z Spigelman

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Re: You be the Judge / WeeksEnd wine

by Z Spigelman » Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:16 pm

Hi Harry.
Returned this evening from an 8 day vacation in Amsterdam. On Shabbat we opened 2 bottles that we brought with us - Bravdo Merlot 2009 and GHW Gamla Cabernet Sauvignon 2009. The rest of the week - plenty of beer.
We stayed at the NH Musica which is surrounded by several kosher restaurants and stores with some pretty decent wines but the storage conditions were very questionable.
Gabe - one store had 2 bottles of Yarden Pinot Noir 2005 but I was afraid to touch them.
Zvi
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Re: You be the Judge / WeeksEnd wine

by Gabriel Geller » Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:14 pm

Z Spigelman wrote:Gabe - one store had 2 bottles of Yarden Pinot Noir 2005 but I was afraid to touch them.

Personally, unless the storage conditions were obviously bad I would have bought them if the price was reasonable. I wouldn't have guessed one could fine a good selection of fine israeli wines in Amsterdam! Having said that, I was 11 y.o. the last time I was there... :mrgreen:
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