'So-called' wine expert
1513
Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:46 pm
Jerusalem, Israel
Harry J wrote:bsd
not being familiar with the applicable vocabulary,i wonder if one would classify the 2010 recanati shiraz as new world/fruit foward a sopposed to the say the dalton 09 which is deeply extracted and spicy.h
Andrew Breskin wrote:The last Dalton I had was a Meron Vyd Merlot that tasted like strawberry jelly and I poured it down the drain. Turns out that wine got scored in the low 70s by Wine Spectator. I should really find a bottle of their famous Viognier and try the other entry level wines.
Gabriel Geller wrote:Harry J wrote:bsd
not being familiar with the applicable vocabulary,i wonder if one would classify the 2010 recanati shiraz as new world/fruit foward a sopposed to the say the dalton 09 which is deeply extracted and spicy.h
Harry, while your description of the above-mentioned wines is very much summarized, it is quite accurate. Both the wines are new world in style yet the Recanati is a rather simple pleasant wine with plenty of bright fruit and easy-drinking whereas the Dalton is much more complex and concentrated making it IMHO a far more interesting wine - and thereby QPR option - for the sophisticated wine-snob/nut that I am...
Adam M wrote:Hi Michael - Don't disagree with you AT ALL. If you will notice, not once did I ask that this discuss cease. Even though I have no interest in this topic whatsoever, I fully respect the rights that people have to respectfully discuss what they view as interesting and discussion-worthy onthe topic of kosher or israeli wine. Now, it is WAY off the topic of the post, which I would submit is a little out of line with "discussion forum" norms. But I didn't even complain about that.
I simply lobbed in a gentle (and very friendly) tease.
I hope this clarification has soothed your concerns.....
Mike_F wrote:Elie Poltorak wrote:Another difference between hechsherim is whether they allow reias aku"m--for a non-Jew to see the wine prior to bottling. According to Kabbala, wine seen by a non-Jew may not be used for sacramental purposes (kidush, havdala, bircat hamazon, etc.). As far as I know, the major kashrus organizations in the U.S. do not follow this stringency, although the mashgichim in specific locations may require it. For instance, although OU doesn't require it, Capcanes and Elvi are made without being seen by non-Jews due to requirements by the local (Chabad) mashgichim. Also, Israeli wine with a reliable hechsher is almost always made without reias aku"m (since of course it's much easier there on a practical level).
If the above is indeed accurate, then words fail me. And you guys wonder why kosher wines have such a hard time reaching a wider audience...
Craig Winchell wrote:Mike_F:
It is certainly true that it is a chumra from the Zohar, specifically for the wine in the glass at kiddush, etc. But like everything, people accepted and enlarged it until now, some consumers only want wine from unopened cases, because the wine in the sealed bottle may have been seen by nonJews through the glass (I know, because people requested it of me, despite the fact that the wine was bottled using nonJews in non-contact positions who could certainly have seen the wine). And my own Rav, when he was the poseik for the kof-K, would have required me to have everything out of sight of nonJews, including the crush pad (not easy when the growers are delivering their grapes to the winery in trucks that sit high). He later told me that if he had known how few actually used the chumrah, he never would have required it- mostly Sephardim, and few of those. It did spawn a nice little industry making bottle snoods for Chabadniks, however (at least, those are the only tables at which I have seen them).
I have no knowledge of any wineries outside of California in that regard.
David Raccah wrote:Thanks for moving the side thread offline![]()
Now - I wanted to get a feel - if I can - what defines P to you all (within the QPR)? Is 100 dollars OK? QPR means to me 20 bucks. Quite literally QPR means Quality to Price Ratio, which to me also means nothing more than a moving line chart of price to quality. So if all the kosher wine out there were scored/rated/qualified/recommended or not, then where on the scale/chart would you say defines a QPR wine - or are we all talk by ourselves?
There are two thoughts there:
1) A Best Buy rating - which for most os 25 dollars or less (both WE and WS use that number)
2) Simply a second score like Pinchas and other use to define the value of the wine given its score/rating
The second makes more sense for the term - QPR - meaning even if I paid 50 dollars for the wine - if it is a Katzrin and the bottle was lovely - like most Katzrin red are - then I got a steal - HIGH QPR (obvious stupid example - I know).
I guess what I am asking is there are people on this thread calling 35 dollar wines a QPR wine - is that what everyone thinks? Because the wine is very good - the price was worth it? Or were people using QPR as more of a price level and then if the wine is good at 25 bucks - then yeah - it has a high QPR?
Personally, as much as I like Dalton - most of their wines fall above my QPR line of 20 to 25 bucks. The Recanati do not. The Dalton Zin and PS can be found in that range when on sale.
How do you understand the term QPR here in this thread? Also, are sales part of the QPR decision? Fair enough that a wine is on sale - but does that mean that its QPR went up because a store is dumping it or needs to make room?
David
Now - I wanted to get a feel - if I can - what defines P to you all (within the QPR)? Is 100 dollars OK? QPR means to me 20 bucks. Quite literally QPR means Quality to Price Ratio, which to me also means nothing more than a moving line chart of price to quality. So if all the kosher wine out there were scored/rated/qualified/recommended or not, then where on the scale/chart would you say defines a QPR wine - or are we all talk by ourselves?
David Raccah wrote:My take on this thread - and some notes....
http://kosherwinemusings.com/2012/10/22 ... r-to-find/
David Raccah wrote:I will be using QPR - as you all do, like Craig stated - qulaity wine for the price paid, whether that is 50 bucks or 18 bucks. A A+ wine for 50 bucks - no brainer QPR. A 50 dollar wine for a B+ to A- not a QPR. A B+ to A- for 18 bucks again a no brainer QPR. Yeah it is still subjective - but so is the score and wine in general.
David
'So-called' wine expert
1513
Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:46 pm
Jerusalem, Israel
David Raccah wrote:Not sure I understand. In the end a wine rating has ZERO to do with price and a QPR rating is ALL ABOUT price. So, irrelevant to the varietal or the maker, an A- wine should be around 30 bucks or less. So a Benyo Pinot at 40 or so bucks is a great wine - but not a QPR winner - sorry, friend or not. I still buy the wine, but it is a discussion of getting a great wine for a steal. QPR defines that.
David Raccah wrote:Not sure I understand. In the end a wine rating has ZERO to do with price and a QPR rating is ALL ABOUT price. So, irrelevant to the varietal or the maker, an A- wine should be around 30 bucks or less. So a Benyo Pinot at 40 or so bucks is a great wine - but not a QPR winner - sorry, friend or not. I still buy the wine, but it is a discussion of getting a great wine for a steal. QPR defines that.
Your assumption is that a SB is cheaper in cost than a CS - which to me is incorrect. To me there are price ranges and both I and Pinchas should state those more openly - and I agree that I should do that.
Anything less than 25 bucks meets the B+ to A- range. A- straight up is 25 to 35. A- to A is 35 to 45 and A is anything to 60 or so. A+ is great so who cares. Yes these prices are arbitrary, but they are values that we all use - one way or the other. I know many of you scoff at 25 dollar wines and some of you never buy above that unless it is an occasion. Would love to get a price/score distribution from folks - maybe we should setup a poll for the first two slots?
David
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