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Tim York

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Re: Open Mike (Oct & Nov) - Wines that got you into this hobby

by Tim York » Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:09 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:Tim,

Charming and elegant are now curse words in Bordeaux! I can see your point on '99, as it's not a blockbuster vintage, and was drinkable from the get go. I went through quite a lot of '99 Pichon Baron, Leoville Barton and all of my bottles of Clerc Milon.


Yes, it seems strange that "charming and elegant" are now qualities only associated with lesser vintages. Do we have to thank Messrs Parker and Rolland for that? :x
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Re: Open Mike (Oct & Nov) - Wines that got you into this hobby

by David M. Bueker » Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:16 pm

Global warming has a lot to do with it as well.

Not a lot of cool, rainy vintages anymore.
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Re: Open Mike (Oct & Nov) - Wines that got you into this hobby

by Mark Lipton » Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:17 pm

Tim York wrote:
David M. Bueker wrote:Tim,

Charming and elegant are now curse words in Bordeaux! I can see your point on '99, as it's not a blockbuster vintage, and was drinkable from the get go. I went through quite a lot of '99 Pichon Baron, Leoville Barton and all of my bottles of Clerc Milon.


Yes, it seems strange that "charming and elegant" are now qualities only associated with lesser vintages. Do we have to thank Messrs Parker and Rolland for that? :x


I don't think that we can give M. Bettane and LRVF a clean pass on that front, Tim. Like many a tragedy, it has multiple fathers (and perhaps a few mothers, too).

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Re: Open Mike (Oct & Nov) - Wines that got you into this hobby

by Tim York » Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:39 pm

Mark Lipton wrote:
Tim York wrote:
David M. Bueker wrote:Tim,

Charming and elegant are now curse words in Bordeaux! I can see your point on '99, as it's not a blockbuster vintage, and was drinkable from the get go. I went through quite a lot of '99 Pichon Baron, Leoville Barton and all of my bottles of Clerc Milon.


Yes, it seems strange that "charming and elegant" are now qualities only associated with lesser vintages. Do we have to thank Messrs Parker and Rolland for that? :x


I don't think that we can give M. Bettane and LRVF a clean pass on that front, Tim. Like many a tragedy, it has multiple fathers (and perhaps a few mothers, too).



Yes, you are right, Mark? Michel Bettane is a great advocate of "modern" Bordeaux. He loves Pavie, for instance.
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Re: Open Mike (Oct & Nov) - Wines that got you into this hobby

by Jenise » Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:54 pm

Okay, so last night I decided a meal of Pot Roast Like Mom Used To Make was the perfect moment for opening my bottle of 2009 Kendall Jackson Cabernet. It was labeled Grand Reserve, and though yeah yeah yeah I know that ALL Kendall Jackson wines are labelled reserve, I don't recall if there is more than one level (but I think there is) and if this would be the entry level or slightly better. Possibly the latter, as it was priced a bit more than I'd have expected for KJ--$21ish at Trader Joe's where I'd have expected $15-16 nowadays based on absolutely nothing but what I think the marketplace would bear--these wines are probably on the shelf just about everywhere I go but I never 'see' them.

Anywho, I poured a glass for each of us. Dark garnet red color. Pretty classic cabernet nose: black cherry, blackberry and some tobacco. More of same on the surprisingly dry palate with unsweetened 70% cocoa and black coffee on the pleasing finish. Not at all the oak bomb I expected, and not a trace of vanilla in sight. Would need a little more complexity to compete at a higher price point but it's not a simpleton by any means; in fact it's a wine with considerable depth, dignity and balance for just $21. Pains me to say that. :wink:
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Re: Open Mike (Oct & Nov) - Wines that got you into this hobby

by Tom N. » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:15 pm

Interesting subject.

The first good (I don't count Boone's Farm and other sweet and cheap party sippers) wine that I can remember tasting was California Cabernet Sauvignon made by Sebastiani. Don't remember the vintage but received it as wedding present in 1977 along with 11 other good wines, mostly from California. So, a mid 70's vintage. First good dry red I can remember drinking. I planned on visting the Sebastiani winery during our 2009 Napa-Sonoma tour, but it was a bit too far out of the way and we were eager to get to San Franscisco and see the sight after buying a really nice 99 vintage sparkler at J winery.
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Re: Open Mike (Oct & Nov) - Wines that got you into this hobby

by Craig Winchell » Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:27 pm

Lancer's, Matteus and Anheuser Liebfraumilch were what got me started, and '64 Chateau La Tour de Mons and '64 G de L Private Reserve were what kept me in the game. Then I fell in love with '71, '75 and '76 German whites ('75 being a real eye-opener in terms of sweet unbotrytized), CA reds of various sorts (I brought a case of Chateau Montelena Zin to college with me in 1976). Of course, by that time I was heavily into '66 and '70 Bordeaux. By 1977/'78 I was managing a wineshop in Greenwich Village, and after a stint as an international flight attendant, I was back to my home town as wine manager of a liquor store, then off to Davis for my degree. somewhat of a whirlwind love affair with wine, which calmed down to an ever present respect, for wine done well.
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Re: Open Mike (Oct & Nov) - Wines that got you into this hobby

by Bob Henrick » Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:14 pm

Craig Winchell wrote:Lancer's, Matteus and Anheuser Liebfraumilch were what got me started, and '64 Chateau La Tour de Mons and '64 G de L Private Reserve were what kept me in the game. Then I fell in love with '71, '75 and '76 German whites ('75 being a real eye-opener in terms of sweet unbotrytized), CA reds of various sorts (I brought a case of Chateau Montelena Zin to college with me in 1976). Of course, by that time I was heavily into '66 and '70 Bordeaux. By 1977/'78 I was managing a wineshop in Greenwich Village, and after a stint as an international flight attendant, I was back to my home town as wine manager of a liquor store, then off to Davis for my degree. somewhat of a whirlwind love affair with wine, which calmed down to an ever present respect, for wine done well.


Craig, I hope the whirlwind didn't make you dizzy. I got started while in the military and stationed in Spain. decent everyday red was 10 cents a liter, and Riscal Reserva was a dollar a bottle. welcome to the forum.
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Re: Open Mike (Oct & Nov) - Wines that got you into this hobby

by Craig Winchell » Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:10 pm

Bob, I guess I should say my home town is Louisville, and the liquor store was State Liquors. A long time ago, 1979.
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Re: Open Mike (Oct & Nov) - Wines that got you into this hobby

by Bob Henrick » Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:21 am

Craig Winchell wrote:Bob, I guess I should say my home town is Louisville, and the liquor store was State Liquors. A long time ago, 1979.


My apologies Craig for not noticing that you aren't a new comeryou aren't a newcomer to the forum. :oops: I haven't been here a lot these last couple years. I stay busy with the home things. Am staying at home full time now since I left my part time job a few weeks ago, and just stick close 24/7. Am not retracting my welcome though.
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Re: Open Mike (Oct & Nov) - Wines that got you into this hobby

by John S » Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:04 am

I don't remember drinking much if any wine in high school or even in my undergraduate days. Canadian wine wasn't worth trying more than once! After graduating from uni, I went on a 12 month trip around the world, and had a bit of an epiphany in some small town in Italy - Arezzo, perhaps? I met a few other travelers at the hostel in town, and we quickly agreed to all go out for dinner together. A couple of people spoke Italian, which was helpful, as the server/owner didn't speak any English. Before we ordered our food, of course, we were asked how much wine we wanted. I think we started with 2 liters for about 6-8 people, served in stone jugs. We eventually ended up with far more! I know it was just the house wine - we were all on a backpackers' budget - but it was wonderful, and everyone raved about it. It went so well with our lovely, rustic meal, and we were treated with wonderful charm by the owner, and stayed until late in the night. It was my first suggestion that wine and food were a match made in heaven, and it was a very 'civilized' drink around the dinner table. It allowed perfect strangers to leave as good friends. It would be another year or two - when I had moved to New Zealand - until I really started exploring wine in a focused way, but it definitely planted a seed...
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Re: Open Mike (Oct & Nov) - Wines that got you into this hobby

by Daisy D » Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:53 pm

Picked up a bottle of 2010 Casillero del Diablo Carmenere last week and finally opened it up tonight. While it did taste as I remembered it, and I can understand why I enjoyed it so much originally, it's not as noteworthy as wines I have enjoyed since.

When we first opened the wine, it had a very round nose and had a lush fruity feeling on the palate. There was a light edge to the finish which is what would have attracted me to it originally. As it had a chance to sit while I finished cooking dinner, I was hoping it would have opened up and developed notes to keep me interested. However, it seemed to have flattened out and the overwhelming fruit flavor had faded.

Having had many more interesting wines over the last few years, this one seemed to leave little to be desired. While I wouldn't turn it away, I wouldn't seek it out either.
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Re: Open Mike (Oct & Nov) - Wines that got you into this hobby

by JC (NC) » Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:00 am

Revisiting one of my early benchmark red wines--Ridge Lytton Springs (zinfandel blend.) I started drinking Lytton Springs approximately three decades ago after returning from Germany and taking a job in Monterey County, CA. For a while I had a nice vertical going of Lytton Springs. This 1999 RIDGE LYTTON SPRINGS (Dry Creek Valley, Sonoma County) is the oldest one I still possess. Bottled January 2001. Paul Draper's notes say: "Over time, we have noted increased size and structure in the Lytton Springs; the '99 best exemplifies this phenomenon to date. Combined with slightly more petite sirah than usual, a a fair amount of---carignane, this is a great vintage from an exceptional vineyard. The wine's weight allowed us to use more new and one-year-old American oak for aging--without detracting from the intense, layered fruit." He goes on to compare it to the structure of the '74 which was long lived and still enjoyable in 2000 and says the '99 may be equally long lived.

14.5% alcohol by volume. 70% Zinfandel, 17% Petite Sirah, 10% Carignane, and 3% Mataro. Deep inky purple; nearly opaque. Viscous. Tantalizing perfume wrapped around blackberries, black currants/cassis and what seems to be a remnant of some of that new oak used in the youth and adolescence of this wine contributing a cedar wood note. Full-bodied, full-throttled wine with long finish. As impressive now as I found Lytton Springs to be three or more decades ago. Remarkably, the price has remained fairly steady. I say hallelujah to that! I had a glass with sloppy joes and another glass without food as I watched the first half of the final Presidential debate (at which point I fell asleep and awoke to find the analysts dissecting the finished debate.)
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Re: Open Mike (Oct & Nov) - Wines that got you into this hobby

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:03 am

Good one JC. I remember those early Lytton Springs Zin days too.

One place in Chinatown, the owner would grin when we arrived..."ooh you boys got more wine!" One time he was away, the chap in charge would only let us drink the zin if we poured from a tea-pot into cups.
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Re: Open Mike (Oct & Nov) - Wines that got you into this hobby

by Dan Smothergill » Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:20 am

My introduction to wine was through the home winemaking of Nancy's father and his friends in the late 60's. Mostly they made Labruscas, dry whites, such as Delaware, Dutchess, Diamond and Catawba. The Viniferas were just coming on the scene at the time and were regarded as wildly expensive. A gallon of Delaware juice went for $2 and something. Riesling was $5 or more! I've always felt that the Labruscas never got a fair shot in the commercial market. The conventional wisdom then as now was that the "foxiness" had to be covered up by sugar. Hazlitt has made a fortune following this recipe with its Red Cat/White Cat, but the flip side is that few people have ever had a well-made dry Labrusca. Another major influence in my wine education was Leon Adam's Wines of America. I have a signed copy of the first edition and still enjoy going back to it. Adams was a Californian, but he documented and celebrated the diversity of winemaking across the US when the industry was still getting back on its feet 30 years after the end of Prohibition.
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Re: Open Mike (Oct & Nov) - Wines that got you into this hobby

by Ian Sutton » Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:42 pm

Been away a few days, but hopefully will be able to add a bottle or two to this thread in the coming week.

Bob P - Give me a shout if you're up for tasting the Faustino.
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Re: Open Mike (Oct & Nov) - Wines that got you into this hobby

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:58 pm

Ian, the only Faustino I can get my hands on is the V. This may not be ready, what do you think?
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Re: Open Mike (Oct & Nov) - Wines that got you into this hobby

by Ian Sutton » Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:17 pm

Hi Bob
Same here - the 2001. Happy to cellar it for later though, as despite it being pretty big volume, I hear it still keeps well.
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Re: Open Mike (Oct & Nov) - Wines that got you into this hobby

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:06 pm

Thanks for the PM Ian. I have some fond memories of Cune too, one of the early wines from my first days in Canada, so how about the `04 Imperial Reserva which I can find downtown?
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Re: Open Mike (Oct & Nov) - Wines that got you into this hobby

by JC (NC) » Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:32 pm

Can we put a "sticky" on this? It's supposed to be October AND November. When living in Germany the first time, I grew fond of Liebfrauenstift Riesling from the vineyard by Liebfrauenkirche (Church of Our Lady) in Worms, Rheinhessen, Germany. Unfortunately the reputation of Liebfrauenstift was damaged by the widespread use of "Liebfraumilch."

2009 WEINGUT LIEBFRAUENSTIFT RIESLING KABINETT, WORMS, RHEINHESSEN, GERMANY. Glass stopper. Liebfrauenstift along with Piesporter Michelsberg, Wehlener Sonnenuhr, and Urzinger Wurzgarten was one of my formative German wines when I started getting into wine. Pale and transparent, citrus scents and some pear and green apple on the nose. Tangy acidity on the tongue. Palate-cleansing properties. Pleasant food wine but not profound. I would rate it an 84 or 85. Interesting to revisit after so many years. I'm still waiting to try a Piesporter Goldtropfchen again.
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Jay Labrador

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Re: Open Mike (Oct & Nov) - Wines that got you into this hobby

by Jay Labrador » Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:13 pm

In the '70's and early 80's we got wine from the little stores that sold stuff from the US soldiers at Clark Airbase about 40 miles north of Manila. I recall jugs of Spanada, Mateus Rose, Blue Nun and Cold Duck which is what we used to greet the New Year. Martini Asti Spumante was a rare treat. In summer we would go to Camp John Hay in Baguio another 120 miles further north, up in the mountains. On Wednesdays, the Main Club at the Camp would have all you can eat roast beef and "burgundy" which, I believe, was Gallo Hearty Burgundy.

My first "serious" wines were Pichon Lalande 1985, Dr.Thanisch Bernkasteller Doctor Kabinett 1985, and Dom Perignon (can't recall the vintage but likely early 80's).
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Re: Open Mike (Oct & Nov) - Wines that got you into this hobby

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:34 pm

LOL, Gallo Hearty Burgundy. Good for you Jay!
Wonder which wines Noel and the Stockbroker got started on??
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Re: Open Mike (Oct & Nov) - Wines that got you into this hobby

by Ian Sutton » Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:43 pm

Here's a wine style that was formative in developing my interest in wine - although in this case it's less of a bruiser than it's reputation suggests.

1999 Baileys of Glenrowan Shiraz 1920's Block - Australia, Victoria, North East (11/6/2012)
Still a deep, dark purple colour but there is just a little age showing at the rim.
The nose has strong cresote influence, but with cured meats and cherry and brambly fruit there as well, with a touch of vanilla in the background.
The palate sees the creosote aspect lingering alongside bright & juicy (& rich) cherry fruit. Acidity is quite fresh and this keeps any thoughts of flabbiness at bay.
Persistent finish.
I do struggle more than most with this creosote influence - for some this would be a wonderful addition of complexity, but for me it's a little bit of a distraction. That aside, certainly a good wine and far from being a gloop-monster.
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1999 Baileys of Glenrowan Shiraz 1920's Block - Australia, Victoria, North East (3/6/2009)
Opened at room temperature, poured form the bottle.

Still very deep, dark purple colour, with only the vaguest hint of age at the rim.

Nose of sweet black fruits with a slightly liquer-like quality, with a touch of tobacco. On the palate, there's certainly a decent full-to-medium body, but the still bright fruit is nicely balanced with refreshing acidity and the overall impression is a bit more stylish/elegant than you might expect. There's also some background tannin remaining and the finish is decent albeit at this stage lacking a little complexity.

This should age gracefully from here, perhaps for a decade more even. Not the image of hot climate reds we're becoming accustomed to.
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Re: Open Mike (Oct & Nov) - Wines that got you into this hobby

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:06 pm

Ian, I still buy the infrequent bottle of Shiraz, especially Schild and Tahbilk. There is a very large range of shiraz blockbusters here in AB, am quite keen to try Two Hands for example.
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