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Hoke

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Wine Geek Teaser Questions 2 and 3

by Hoke » Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:05 pm

Since the Wine Geek Teaser Question elicited a brief flurry of activity, I thought we'd do another couple of rounds. Plus it gives me another opportunity to irritate TomHill, who is apparently getting grumpy in his senescence, with my inept phrasing. :D

Harold Olmo, who created the previously mentioned Ruby Cabernet, was quite productive and created many different crossings. They are now known as the Olmo Grapes.

1. The Carnelian was one such. It is a blend of Carignan(e) and ____________ (But this is tricky, because the Carnelian is actually referred to as a 'double-crossing' grape, not because it's sneaky, but for another reason.

The Carnelian had less success and scope than the Ruby Cabernet (or the Rubired, for that matter), but some people tried it over the years. Probably the best one I've ever had was Fall Creek Carnelian, from a lovely little winery in the Hill Country, situated on the string of lakes above Austin.

2. Symphony had some success too. It, too , is still around today. It was actually a grape that had an entire winery operation built around it. (Anyone remember the name now?) Made dry wine, sweet wine, and even sparkling wine. Symphony was a blend of ___________________ and ____________________________. If you've had the wine from this grape, you'll probably be able to guess the first grape in the cross, but be clueless about the second. Unless maybe your name is Steve Edmunds.
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Re: Wine Geek Teaser Questions 2 and 3

by Robin Garr » Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:22 pm

I'll keep the suspense growing by posting a link to an article I wrote about Symphony, but I won't paste the answers in here. :mrgreen:

http://www.wineloverspage.com/wineadvis ... 0402.phtml
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Victorwine

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Re: Wine Geek Teaser Questions 2 and 3

by Victorwine » Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:59 pm

Hi Hoke,
(1) I always thought it was Ruby Cabernet (CS X Carignan) X Grenache
(2) Muscat (Alexandra) X Pinot Gris

Salute
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Re: Wine Geek Teaser Questions 2 and 3

by Hoke » Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:00 pm

Victorwine wrote:Hi Hoke,
(1) I always thought it was Ruby Cabernet (CS X Carignan) X Grenache
(2) Muscat (Alexandra) X Pinot Gris

Salute


I'll wait a few more doughty guesses before I'll comment on your post, Victor.
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Re: Wine Geek Teaser Questions 2 and 3

by Jenise » Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:10 pm

Hoke wrote:
2. Symphony had some success too. It, too , is still around today. It was actually a grape that had an entire winery operation built around it. (Anyone remember the name now?) Made dry wine, sweet wine, and even sparkling wine. Symphony was a blend of ___________________ and ____________________________. If you've had the wine from this grape, you'll probably be able to guess the first grape in the cross, but be clueless about the second. Unless maybe your name is Steve Edmunds.


The winery was in Sonoma; I don't recall if they made a still version but it was the sparkling wine they were known for. Somewhere around 1995 to 1998, the winery (or at least vineyards) were bought by Jess Jackson and that was going to be the end of the sparkling symphony. Have I got the right story?
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Re: Wine Geek Teaser Questions 2 and 3

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:14 pm

Interested but do not have a clue. That Symphony sells well up here though, is it Pinot Blanc and Muscat?
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Re: Wine Geek Teaser Questions 2 and 3

by Hoke » Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:24 pm

Jenise wrote:
Hoke wrote:
2. Symphony had some success too. It, too , is still around today. It was actually a grape that had an entire winery operation built around it. (Anyone remember the name now?) Made dry wine, sweet wine, and even sparkling wine. Symphony was a blend of ___________________ and ____________________________. If you've had the wine from this grape, you'll probably be able to guess the first grape in the cross, but be clueless about the second. Unless maybe your name is Steve Edmunds.


The winery was in Sonoma; I don't recall if they made a still version but it was the sparkling wine they were known for. Somewhere around 1995 to 1998, the winery (or at least vineyards) were bought by Jess Jackson and that was going to be the end of the sparkling symphony. Have I got the right story?


You pretty much got it, Jenise. The winery you mention was just off Hwy. 101 in Sonoma, and the original building now serves K-J as a tasting room and hospitality center, with a lovely edilble/herbal garden on the grounds. I think that's also where they now do their Tomato Festival shindig every year.

There was some Sierra Foothills production of Symphony as well, as I recall, back in the day.
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Re: Wine Geek Teaser Questions 2 and 3

by David M. Bueker » Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:46 pm

There's a wjnery in the Okanagan that bottles Symphony as well (or did when I visited several years ago).

It's a cross of Garnacha Rojo and Muscat of Alexandria. I only know this because good friend Beth Sheligo is a fan of the grape.
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Re: Wine Geek Teaser Questions 2 and 3

by Jenise » Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:34 pm

Hoke wrote:
There was some Sierra Foothills production of Symphony as well, as I recall, back in the day.


Still is. The wine has a proprietary name, Obsession, which I remember w/o remembering the winery name. Iron-something, might be. Ironstone? And I don't know if they still have it, but Rex Hill I believe had an acre of it in Oregon from which they made a sparkling wine in the years they got good fruit. One of those novelties you only see/buy at the winery.
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Re: Wine Geek Teaser Questions 2 and 3

by Hoke » Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:43 pm

Jenise wrote:
Hoke wrote:
There was some Sierra Foothills production of Symphony as well, as I recall, back in the day.


Still is. The wine has a proprietary name, Obsession, which I remember w/o remembering the winery name. Iron-something, might be. Ironstone? And I don't know if they still have it, but Rex Hill I believe had an acre of it in Oregon from which they made a sparkling wine in the years they got good fruit. One of those novelties you only see/buy at the winery.


Yep. Obsession and Ironstone. Pretty little place up past Murphys in Gold Rush country, situated in a pleasant little bowl of a valley. Haven't been there in many years, and haven't had the wine in (almost) that long.
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Re: Wine Geek Teaser Questions 2 and 3

by Jenise » Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:51 pm

It came to me--Chateau de Baun!
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Re: Wine Geek Teaser Questions 2 and 3

by Hoke » Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:01 pm

Re Obsession, here's a write up on....where else...some place called the 30 Second Wine Advisor.

http://www.wineloverspage.com/wineadvisor/tswa030402.phtml

Careful though, the answer to the varietal question is contained within the article.

(It also mentions a then-winery, Baywood Cellars (?) which produced Symphony.)
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Re: Wine Geek Teaser Questions 2 and 3

by Hoke » Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:19 pm

Okay, here we go:

1. Carnelian. A crossing of Carignane and...a cross of Cabernet Sauvignon/Grenache. So close, Victor, so close. Since it's a crossing of a vinifera and a vinifera cross, it was called a "double cross".

2. Symphony. As Robin correctly wrote it up in his 30 Second Wine Advisor Archive, this is a cross of Muscat of Alexandria and Grenache Gris (which is not Grenache Noir, nor is it Grenache Blanc). Victor was so close again on this one!

And Jenise, good memory: Ch. de Baun it was.
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Re: Wine Geek Teaser Questions 2 and 3

by Peter May » Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:50 am

Well, the question was posted and answered while I was offline, but I couldn't remember the cross (but who need to when they've got Jancis's book beside them.

I've had Symphony and visited Ironstone winery and for a while it was sold by one of the supermarkets here. (it caused bit of a discussionon in the UK because of its EU illegal label - the alcohol percentage was in a too small font
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Harumph..

by TomHill » Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:05 pm

Harumph, Hoke....I, of course, had the answers..but you spilled the beans afore I could respond and dazzle folks
w/ my superior knowledge and deft turn of phrase.
So...Harold Olmo had a son who started a wnry that specialized in making varietals from his Dad's grapes.
What was his name and where was the wnry located??
I...of course...followed his wnry...from the very start.
Tom
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Re: Harumph..

by TomHill » Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:06 pm

TomHill wrote:Harumph, Hoke....I, of course, had the answers..but you spilled the beans afore I could respond and dazzle folks
w/ my superior knowledge and deft turn of phrase.
So...Harold Olmo had a son who started a wnry that specialized in making varietals from his Dad's grapes.
What was his name and where was the wnry located??
I...of course...followed his wnry...from the very start.
Tom


PS: Your phrasing is not nearly so obfuscatory this time around.
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Re: Harumph..

by Hoke » Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:34 pm

TomHill wrote:
TomHill wrote:Harumph, Hoke....I, of course, had the answers..but you spilled the beans afore I could respond and dazzle folks
w/ my superior knowledge and deft turn of phrase.
So...Harold Olmo had a son who started a wnry that specialized in making varietals from his Dad's grapes.
What was his name and where was the wnry located??
I...of course...followed his wnry...from the very start.
Tom


PS: Your phrasing is not nearly so obfuscatory this time around.


Praising with faint damn? :)
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Re: Wine Geek Teaser Questions 2 and 3

by Sue Courtney » Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:01 pm

I came across Harold Olmo after his Flora affair.

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