Founded by the late Daniel Rogov, focusing primarily on wines that are either kosher or Israeli.
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David Raccah

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Re: Half a Dollar / WeeksEnd wine

by David Raccah » Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:56 pm

After coming back from IFWF and KFWE, I finally had time to post two weeks ago and this past week. Two weeks ago, we had the chance to taste some of Benyo's older wines along with some more PS wines and A yiron and Flechas Malbec.

http://kosherwinemusings.com/2013/02/11 ... ice-wines/

The shocker to me was tasting the 2005 Yiron side by side the 2006 Four Gates MSC Merlot - WOW! Not even close! The Yiron tasted flat and fat and just there, in comparison to the 4G Merlot. To be fair, the Yiron by itself is nice and rich, but once tasted side by side the 4 Gates merlot, you really see the lack of acid.

David
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Re: Half a Dollar / WeeksEnd wine

by David Raccah » Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:29 pm

Hey harry!

This past weekend, I really enjoyed a bottle of Hevron Heights Elone Mamre my notes can be found here:

http://kosherwinemusings.com/2013/02/11 ... hardonnay/

David
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E Segel

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Re: Half a Dollar / WeeksEnd wine

by E Segel » Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:07 pm

Dug into the cellar this past weekend, celebrating my sister's new baby boy (although do we really need an excuse?)

2004 Yarden Merlot Ortal
2006 Castel Grand Vin
2001 Herzog Chalk Hill

Chalk Hill was the clear winner here, although all 3 held up quite well and were drinking beautifully.
Regards,
Eli
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Yossie Horwitz

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Re: Half a Dollar / WeeksEnd wine

by Yossie Horwitz » Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:24 pm

Enjoyed the Agur Layam 2010 which was a nice Med. blend of Syrah and Mourvedre. Like Issac, I pre-gamed the Porto Quevedo and opened it up Thursday morning so it was delightful Friday night. We also had the Odem Mountain Rose 2011 which is crisp and refreshing with nice minerals, although it is getting a bit tired around the edges so drink up. The great Recanati Mediterranean Reserve Syrah-Viognier was a big hit as well and its my favorite of the three wines in the series. We also had a bottle of the Flam Classico 2011 which, as I think was mentioned here before, would be a truly fantastic $20 wine but at $30, is a bit overpriced.
Last edited by Yossie Horwitz on Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Half a Dollar / WeeksEnd wine

by David Raccah » Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:07 pm

Yossie - come on - if you do not want to score, give thumbs up and thumbs down man!

David
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Harry J

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Re: Half a Dollar / WeeksEnd wine

by Harry J » Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:43 pm

David Raccah wrote:Yossie - come on - if you do not want to score, give thumbs up and thumbs down man!

David
. Ill ditto DavidRacah
H
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Yossie Horwitz

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Re: Half a Dollar / WeeksEnd wine

by Yossie Horwitz » Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:42 pm

Pretty sure "enjoyed" equals thumbs up, but I made some edits too...
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Pinchas L

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Re: Half a Dollar / WeeksEnd wine

by Pinchas L » Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:02 pm

Yossie Horwitz wrote:We also had a bottle of the Flam Classico 2011 which, as I think was mentioned here before, would be a truly fantastic $20 wine but at $30, is a bit overpriced.


Hi Yossie,

Assuming that when you say that the Classico is overpriced at $30, you mean that for that price you can find better wines. What would they be?

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-> Pinchas
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Re: Half a Dollar / WeeksEnd wine

by Yossie Horwitz » Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:25 pm

Not necessarily a better wine for the same price. My point is that the Classico is an entry-level blend, intended for early drinking (albeit a very high quality one). While it may be among the best in that class, $30 for an entry level blend is high.
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Gabriel Geller

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Re: Half a Dollar / WeeksEnd wine

by Gabriel Geller » Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:39 pm

Yossie Horwitz wrote:The great Recanati Mediterranean Reserve Syrah-Viognier was a big hit as well and its my favorite of the three wines in the series

Really? Not the PS/Zin?
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Pinchas L

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Re: Half a Dollar / WeeksEnd wine

by Pinchas L » Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:49 pm

Yossie Horwitz wrote:Not necessarily a better wine for the same price. My point is that the Classico is an entry-level blend, intended for early drinking (albeit a very high quality one). While it may be among the best in that class, $30 for an entry level blend is high.


Hi Yossie,

I agree with you that the Classico is intended for early drinking and as an every day wine, one you would hope to be served by the glass at a restaurant. In Israel, it probably is served as such, and the price there is closer to $20. But in general it is hard to find wines from boutique wineries whose price point would be optimal as an every day wine. If wine consumption is to increase amongst the kosher drinking public, they would need wines of this quality at a price that won't get in the way.

Best,
-> Pinchas
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Yossie Horwitz

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Re: Half a Dollar / WeeksEnd wine

by Yossie Horwitz » Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:50 pm

The PS/Zin is certainly the crowd favorite and the best priced of the three. Personally, I like the savory aspect of the Syrah which I find different and intriguing from the other Israel Syrah wines (many of which are excellant and I love).
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Adam M

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Re: Half a Dollar / WeeksEnd wine

by Adam M » Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:55 pm

Pinchas L wrote:
Yossie Horwitz wrote:Not necessarily a better wine for the same price. My point is that the Classico is an entry-level blend, intended for early drinking (albeit a very high quality one). While it may be among the best in that class, $30 for an entry level blend is high.


Hi Yossie,

I agree with you that the Classico is intended for early drinking and as an every day wine, one you would hope to be served by the glass at a restaurant. In Israel, it probably is served as such, and the price there is closer to $20. But in general it is hard to find wines from boutique wineries whose price point would be optimal as an every day wine. If wine consumption is to increase amongst the kosher drinking public, they would need wines of this quality at a price that won't get in the way.

Best,
-> Pinchas


Pinchas - completely agree with Yossie - in fact i dont even think there is a discussion to be had - that the Classico is grossly overpriced in the US. $30 for an entry level wine is a tragic sucker-purchase trap for the unwary. I don't think that it matters at all that it comes from a "boutique" winery. The new Alon and Ela from Galil Mountain at about $15 are examples of a gold standard of appropriately priced and solid entry-level wines. GM is the opposite of a boutique winery, but the blend is very unique, and that's what matters to me...
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Re: Half a Dollar / WeeksEnd wine

by Pinchas L » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:13 pm

Adam M wrote:
Pinchas L wrote:
Yossie Horwitz wrote:Not necessarily a better wine for the same price. My point is that the Classico is an entry-level blend, intended for early drinking (albeit a very high quality one). While it may be among the best in that class, $30 for an entry level blend is high.


Hi Yossie,

I agree with you that the Classico is intended for early drinking and as an every day wine, one you would hope to be served by the glass at a restaurant. In Israel, it probably is served as such, and the price there is closer to $20. But in general it is hard to find wines from boutique wineries whose price point would be optimal as an every day wine. If wine consumption is to increase amongst the kosher drinking public, they would need wines of this quality at a price that won't get in the way.

Best,
-> Pinchas


Pinchas - completely agree with Yossie - in fact i dont even think there is a discussion to be had - that the Classico is grossly overpriced in the US. $30 for an entry level wine is a tragic sucker-purchase trap for the unwary. I don't think that it matters at all that it comes from a "boutique" winery. The new Alon and Ela from Galil Mountain at about $15 are examples of a gold standard of appropriately priced and solid entry-level wines. GM is the opposite of a boutique winery, but the blend is very unique, and that's what matters to me...


Hi Adam,

I understand that the price will keep people away from the Classico, and perhaps it is not a good candidate for import. However, on basis of quality, it is far superior to the Alon and Ela IMHO. I purposely shied away from Yossie's characterization of the Classico as an entry level wine, preferring to call it a wine for every day drinking. While you may make much of the distinction, I do.

Probably only the larger wineries with their economies of scale can import entry level wines at entry level wine prices. That's life. But I find Flam's pricing in Israel to be very reasonable across the board.

Best,
-> Pinchas
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Re: Half a Dollar / WeeksEnd wine

by Adam M » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:25 pm

Hi Pinchas - I think that one thing that we can agree on here is that, at $20, the classico isn't a rip off. :)
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David Raccah

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Re: Half a Dollar / WeeksEnd wine

by David Raccah » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:44 pm

At B+ to at best B+ to A-, this wine is not worth 30 bucks, not worth 25 or 20. I would rather buy many Bordeuax blends than this guy, including Yiron. I understand that Yiron is not as balanced or acidic-ly based as Pinchas may need, and I understand and somewhat agree. But the richness and body that the Yiron has and the shelf life of the Yiron versus the Classico make for a better call - IMHO

David
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Re: Half a Dollar / WeeksEnd wine

by Adam M » Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:50 pm

+1
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Steven B

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Re: Half a Dollar / WeeksEnd wine

by Steven B » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:40 am

Hi, Harry

Sorry I'm late in posting this.

Elvi Herenza 2008
Segal's Reserve Cabernet Sauvignon 2009
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Pinchas L

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Re: Half a Dollar / WeeksEnd wine

by Pinchas L » Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:52 am

David Raccah wrote:At B+ to at best B+ to A-, this wine is not worth 30 bucks, not worth 25 or 20. I would rather buy many Bordeuax blends than this guy, including Yiron. I understand that Yiron is not as balanced or acidic-ly based as Pinchas may need, and I understand and somewhat agree. But the richness and body that the Yiron has and the shelf life of the Yiron versus the Classico make for a better call - IMHO

David


David,

On the one hand I have the balance and acidity, and on the other I have more body, richness and aging ability. Well, now you know my preference, especially for a wine that I don't intend on aging. The Yiron has more oak influences than I care for, and a bigger body is not typically a good match for a regular meal. Add to the consideration the Yiron's greater alcohol content and higher perceived sweetness, and my preference for the Classico should be seen in greater relief. Additionally, I drink my Classico within a year or two of release, aging, at most, a bottle or two as an experiment, hence aging becomes an irrelevant factor in the comparison.

Best,
-> Pinchas
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Elie Poltorak

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Re: Half a Dollar / WeeksEnd wine

by Elie Poltorak » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:10 pm

I gotta weigh in here: I've had the Classico several times and it's the perfect by-the-glass restaurant wine: very easy drinking and versatile, it'll please most people with most foods most of the time. But the reason people pay a premium for a boutique wine is to get something special and unique. Classico is a VERY well made wine, but there's absolutely nothing unique about it. Hence, I wouldn't pay more than 12-15 bucks for it.
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Re: Half a Dollar / WeeksEnd wine

by Elie Poltorak » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:16 pm

Kiddush on '09 Peraj Petita: A-/*** delightful as always
Apropos David's ragging on me for saying the incredible '09 Dalton Wild Yeast Viognier (A/***) is fading fast, I opened a bottle and lucked out. Absolutely delightful!!!
Chateau Thenac- Fleur du Perigord 2010: B++/*** Very elegant and versatile. Enough body to hold its own with a steak but light enough to drink by itself. This bottle was slightly marred by a faint olive-y bitterness on the finish. I didn't detect that on previous bottles so I'll have to try another bottle before concluding it's time to drink up.
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Isaac C

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Re: Half a Dollar / WeeksEnd wine

by Isaac C » Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:18 pm

Just saw the end of this thread, another +1 for what David said regarding the Classico. I had the Shirah PTTP on Friday night, very enjoyable wine, full bodied with dark fruit, though this did not stand out to me enough to justify the price (though I understand the price is probably more a reflection of the boutique aspect). The Quevedo was very enjoyable, though I think I should have opened it even earlier to enjoy on Friday night, it was much better shabbos day and continues to be enjoyable throughout the week. I'd be curious to know how long it will last open but since I enjoy it that much I don't think I'll ever get to find out. :D
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Re: Half a Dollar / WeeksEnd wine

by Gabriel Geller » Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:37 pm

Isaac C wrote:I'd be curious to know how long it will last open but since I enjoy it that much I don't think I'll ever get to find out. :D

Maybe get yourself another bottle for such experimental purposes, I love doing that lately...
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Re: Half a Dollar / WeeksEnd wine

by Isaac C » Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:16 am

Gabriel Geller wrote:
Isaac C wrote:I'd be curious to know how long it will last open but since I enjoy it that much I don't think I'll ever get to find out. :D

Maybe get yourself another bottle for such experimental purposes, I love doing that lately...


I have a few bottles left but I think that even if I open up a second bottle I will still drink it up too quickly - hard to resist open wine!
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