The place for all things wine, focused on serious wine discussions.

Where are all the Cal. Cab. Lovers?

Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker

no avatar
User

Jim Grow

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

1248

Joined

Sun Mar 26, 2006 11:31 am

Location

Rockbridge Ohio

Where are all the Cal. Cab. Lovers?

by Jim Grow » Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:25 pm

I have recently been drinkling a lot of Cal. Cab. none of which I see posted here lately. Many are excellent (IMHO) and include (tonight) 2009 Calistoga Cellars but also Bugay, De Sante, Bennett Family, Rockledge, Vine Cliff, Sueno Profundo, Maple Lane, Topel, Provenance, Levendi, Anakota, Maroon, Baus, Atlas Peak, Kuleto, Coniglio, Roth, Snowden, Conn Valley, Mt. Veeder, Bernardus, Ahnfeldt, Farella, Hoopla, Summers, Cade, Faust and Chorus. I guess I am in the vast minority with interest in these fruit-forward Cabernets. I would love to see how these mature with 10+ years on them but I drink them too often to find out. Do any of you out there like any of these Cabernets and how do they age?
no avatar
User

Redwinger

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

4038

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:36 pm

Location

Way Down South In Indiana, USA

Re: Where are all the Cal. Cab. Lovers?

by Redwinger » Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:38 pm

Jim-
How about you suggest Cabernet, with a mini-focus on Cali, as the subject for The March "Wine Focus". I wish you luck getting the hipsters to go along with that after all their twitching over doing Merlot in January.
FWIW, NJ is on a Tom Eddy Cabernet binge lately having opened the 95, 96 and 98 in the last couple of months. She reports all are doing nicely as some of them approach their 20th birthday.
Smile, it gives your face something to do!
no avatar
User

John Treder

Rank

Zinaholic

Posts

1925

Joined

Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:03 pm

Location

Santa Rosa, CA

Re: Where are all the Cal. Cab. Lovers?

by John Treder » Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:31 pm

Ackshly, Jim, I like CalCab, and have about a couple of dozen (including Bdx blends) in the box in the garage. And some Cab Franc, too.
I tend to prefer the ones that are a bit restrained (in a California-ish sense) and I might have more if the pricing were more in line with zin (see my cognomen) and other warmer-weather wines. I must admit, though, that few of them are something worth crowing about. OTOH, I can't remember one that I wanted to piss & moan about!
John in the wine county
no avatar
User

John S

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

1106

Joined

Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:12 am

Location

British Columbia

Re: Where are all the Cal. Cab. Lovers?

by John S » Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:55 am

In Canada, the price of the Cali cabs available here have gone through the roof, starting about 10 years ago. As a result, I'm rarely a buyer, unless something gets discounted. There's too many wines from other regions that offer way better QPR. I do miss Napa cabs a bit, as I cut my teeth on them before they went all Bordeaux on us, but I refuse to support the greed and ego fueled price increases.

I remember going to Caymus in the early 1990s, and Mr Wagner was pouring at the tasting room in the days before appointments were required. He flatly stated to the group I was tasting with, "Bordeaux can charge $100 per bottle, so I'm going to raise my prices as well - if they can do it, i can do it". He was true to his word at least!
no avatar
User

Joy Lindholm

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

451

Joined

Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:41 am

Location

Denver, CO

Re: Where are all the Cal. Cab. Lovers?

by Joy Lindholm » Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:58 am

Jim Grow wrote:I have recently been drinkling a lot of Cal. Cab. none of which I see posted here lately. Many are excellent (IMHO) and include (tonight) 2009 Calistoga Cellars but also Bugay, De Sante, Bennett Family, Rockledge, Vine Cliff, Sueno Profundo, Maple Lane, Topel, Provenance, Levendi, Anakota, Maroon, Baus, Atlas Peak, Kuleto, Coniglio, Roth, Snowden, Conn Valley, Mt. Veeder, Bernardus, Ahnfeldt, Farella, Hoopla, Summers, Cade, Faust and Chorus. I guess I am in the vast minority with interest in these fruit-forward Cabernets. I would love to see how these mature with 10+ years on them but I drink them too often to find out. Do any of you out there like any of these Cabernets and how do they age?


I wouldn't lump Snowden in with the fruit-forward style Cali Cabs. They are one of the more balanced Cabs out there along with the likes of Arnot-Roberts, Truchard, Broadside and a few others. Personally, I think Cabs in general are way over-rated (but definitely can be great) - especially jammy, overpriced, cult-statused, point laden ones.
no avatar
User

Jon Leifer

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

788

Joined

Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:34 pm

Re: Where are all the Cal. Cab. Lovers?

by Jon Leifer » Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:17 am

I still drink a fair amount of Cal cab, tho not as much as in the past, and have no experience with any of the ones on your list, Jim..Only Rockledge wine I have tasted, and it was terrific , was their PS and that was years ago, Haven't seen it locally in ages..We enjoyed several vintages of their PS and It was one of the best Petite Syrahs I have tasted....I do enjoy the Provenance SB and have had several bottles of less than memorable Bernardus whites..Of fthe top of my head, the Cal cabs in our cellar are: Rafanelli, Caymus, Alpha Omega, Dominus, Mondavi reserve, Sojourn , Scherrer, Bryant, Montelena, ..Not much of a buyer these days, am drinking down my cellar
Jon
no avatar
User

Bill Spohn

Rank

He put the 'bar' in 'barrister'

Posts

9432

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:31 pm

Location

Vancouver BC

Re: Where are all the Cal. Cab. Lovers?

by Bill Spohn » Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:36 am

John S wrote:In Canada, the price of the Cali cabs available here have gone through the roof, starting about 10 years ago. As a result, I'm rarely a buyer, unless something gets discounted. There's too many wines from other regions that offer way better QPR. I do miss Napa cabs a bit, as I cut my teeth on them before they went all Bordeaux on us, but I refuse to support the greed and ego fueled price increases.

I remember going to Caymus in the early 1990s, and Mr Wagner was pouring at the tasting room in the days before appointments were required. He flatly stated to the group I was tasting with, "Bordeaux can charge $100 per bottle, so I'm going to raise my prices as well - if they can do it, i can do it". He was true to his word at least!



Amen on local prices.

Sadly, all the Calcabs I used to collect have gone through the roof - all well over $100 a bottle, and as excellent wines are available for less than that (Rhones, Spanish, Italian) I haven't been a buyer since the late 1990s vintages. I've actually been trying a few current vintages lately and have been disappointed in what I am finding. Most seem to be flash in the pan sweet wines, ironically probably exactly what you say you prefer, but definitely not my cup of tea.
no avatar
User

Brian K Miller

Rank

Passionate Arboisphile

Posts

9340

Joined

Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:05 am

Location

Northern California

Re: Where are all the Cal. Cab. Lovers?

by Brian K Miller » Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:42 pm

I still love California Cabernet. I prefer a more old school, lean, even green style myself. From your list, I like Ahnfeldt and I LOVE Farella-Park. Don't like Bennet Lane-their high end bottling lost all its fruit and there was nothing left but alcohol (15%+!!!) and tannins after only a few years!

Check out Clos Du Val and (higher price) Corison for great Cali Cabs. Also...Alexander Valley Vineyards (even their priciest Bordeaux Blend is still $50ish), Dashe, Hopper Creek, and Loxton for other California Cabs. Loxton and Dashe are very fairly priced.
...(Humans) are unique in our capacity to construct realities at utter odds with reality. Dogs dream and dolphins imagine, but only humans are deluded. –Jacob Bacharach
no avatar
User

Brian Gilp

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

1440

Joined

Tue May 23, 2006 5:50 pm

Re: Where are all the Cal. Cab. Lovers?

by Brian Gilp » Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:10 pm

Sure prices have gone up but no one needs to spend $100/btl. Short list below of things that I generally like and I don't think any of them come it at over $100 but some are close
Arns
Togni
Ridge - Estate or MB on futures
EMH
Laurel Glen
Corrison
Mt. Eden

I have been a buyer of all of these in the past year, two max.
no avatar
User

Bill Spohn

Rank

He put the 'bar' in 'barrister'

Posts

9432

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:31 pm

Location

Vancouver BC

Re: Where are all the Cal. Cab. Lovers?

by Bill Spohn » Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:36 pm

Brian Gilp wrote:Sure prices have gone up but no one needs to spend $100/btl. Short list below of things that I generally like and I don't think any of them come it at over $100 but some are close
Togni $135-165 Can.
Corrison $95-100



Others currently unavailable in BC/Canada.

Other faves - Montelena $160, Dominus $175 (Napanook is under $100), Caymus SS $135......etc.
no avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Riesling Guru

Posts

34220

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: Where are all the Cal. Cab. Lovers?

by David M. Bueker » Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:46 pm

Looking at the cellartracker data, I have purchased exactly 3 California Cabernets not called Ridge or Montelena over the last 5 years. I did buy an Arnot-Roberts, but have not tasted it yet, so not sure if I will go after more. Not sure when to open it either, as it's a 1.5L.
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

Joy Lindholm

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

451

Joined

Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:41 am

Location

Denver, CO

Re: Where are all the Cal. Cab. Lovers?

by Joy Lindholm » Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:16 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:Looking at the cellartracker data, I have purchased exactly 3 California Cabernets not called Ridge or Montelena over the last 5 years. I did buy an Arnot-Roberts, but have not tasted it yet, so not sure if I will go after more. Not sure when to open it either, as it's a 1.5L.


What vintage?
no avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Riesling Guru

Posts

34220

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: Where are all the Cal. Cab. Lovers?

by David M. Bueker » Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:37 pm

The Arnot-Roberts is the 2010 Vare Vineyard Cabernet (Mt. Veeder).
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

Joy Lindholm

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

451

Joined

Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:41 am

Location

Denver, CO

Re: Where are all the Cal. Cab. Lovers?

by Joy Lindholm » Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:07 pm

David M. Bueker wrote:The Arnot-Roberts is the 2010 Vare Vineyard Cabernet (Mt. Veeder).


From my recent experience with the Arnot-Roberts Bugay and Clajeaux Cabs, both 2008, they need several more years to develop. In my talking to folks who have some older Arnot-Roberts Cabs, they recommend at least 10 years or so before they hit their prime.
no avatar
User

Brian Gilp

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

1440

Joined

Tue May 23, 2006 5:50 pm

Re: Where are all the Cal. Cab. Lovers?

by Brian Gilp » Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:12 pm

Bill Spohn wrote:
Brian Gilp wrote:Sure prices have gone up but no one needs to spend $100/btl. Short list below of things that I generally like and I don't think any of them come it at over $100 but some are close
Togni $135-165 Can.
Corrison $95-100



Others currently unavailable in BC/Canada.

Other faves - Montelena $160, Dominus $175 (Napanook is under $100), Caymus SS $135......etc.


Well that stinks. Cellar tracker shows I bought the 1999 Corison in March of 2011 at $40 and that I bought the 1999 Togni in Sept of 2012 at $70. Both were purchased retail not at auction. I can still get some vintages of Togni (1998, 2000, 2003, and 2005) for $80 or less at MacArthurs http://www.bassins.com/wine/us/california-cabernet.php
no avatar
User

Diane (Long Island)

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

744

Joined

Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:47 pm

Re: Where are all the Cal. Cab. Lovers?

by Diane (Long Island) » Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:21 pm

I do enjoy California Cab, but don't drink them as much because of the food I eat. For me, they need a piece of beef, and prefeably a juicy steak. I don't eat steak very often, so I don't reach for a Cab very often.

The Cabs in my cellar are from EMH Vineyards, Corison, Guilliams, and Scherrer. I have a couple of others with a bigger profile, but this list contains Cabernet that is made in a restrained style that I appreciate. I've picked up Rafanelli and Larkmead when we visit the wineries, and I'm always looking for producers to visit when we make our somewhat frequent trips to Napa and Sonoma.
Diane
no avatar
User

Sam Platt

Rank

I am Sam, Sam I am

Posts

2330

Joined

Sat Mar 25, 2006 12:22 pm

Location

Indiana, USA

Re: Where are all the Cal. Cab. Lovers?

by Sam Platt » Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:27 pm

Jim,

In my cellar I have Caymus SS, Heitz MV, Ridge, Coppola Rubicon, Dunn HM, Dominus, and Beringer PR among first tier producers. I don't drink them that often because I can't afford to. I agree that the second tier wines are often overpriced and I find a better QPR elsewhere though I do like the Hahn Winery cabs.
Sam

"The biggest problem most people have is that they think they shouldn't have any." - Tony Robbins
no avatar
User

Mark Lipton

Rank

Oenochemist

Posts

4285

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:18 pm

Location

Indiana

Re: Where are all the Cal. Cab. Lovers?

by Mark Lipton » Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:21 pm

I've a fair bit of CalCab in the cellar, but I've found that I prefer them with a lot of bottle age, so most aren't "ready" to drink by my standards. Couple that with my preference for traditionally styled, structured examples of the genre and I'll be opening up most of mine when I'm on death's doorstep, I'm afraid.

Joy, thanks for the input on the '08 A-R Bugay. I've got some of that after a visit to the winery.

Mark Lipton
no avatar
User

Jon Peterson

Rank

The Court Winer

Posts

2981

Joined

Sat Apr 08, 2006 5:53 pm

Location

The Blue Crab State

Re: Where are all the Cal. Cab. Lovers?

by Jon Peterson » Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:43 am

Mark Lipton wrote:I've a fair bit of CalCab in the cellar, but I've found that I prefer them with a lot of bottle age...


I'm with you, Mark. I opened a 2005 Mt. Veeder Winery Cab for dinner Sunday night and it was absolutely wonderful. For me, having wines like this would not be possible without a wine cellar and it is one of the main reason to have a cellar.
no avatar
User

Bill Spohn

Rank

He put the 'bar' in 'barrister'

Posts

9432

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:31 pm

Location

Vancouver BC

Re: Where are all the Cal. Cab. Lovers?

by Bill Spohn » Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:23 pm

Jon Peterson wrote: I opened a 2005 Mt. Veeder Winery Cab for dinner Sunday night and it was absolutely wonderful. For me, having wines like this would not be possible without a wine cellar and it is one of the main reason to have a cellar.


Not poking fun at you, Jon, but I actually laughed when I saw that!

Good example of how tastes vary. I wouldn't even think about drinking a good California Cabernet at that young age. I am just starting in on my early 90s cabs.
no avatar
User

Jenise

Rank

FLDG Dishwasher

Posts

42509

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:45 pm

Location

The Pacific Northest Westest

Re: Where are all the Cal. Cab. Lovers?

by Jenise » Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:20 pm

Bill, you were definitely a lucky boy to have had both the cellar space, palate for, and means to buy the kind of wines you did such that now, still shy of 60, you're drinking 20 year old Cal Cabs the way you are. Not all can say that.

On that subject, btw, if I were to have tasted all the wines today blind and then been offered one more big glass of any of them? Your 92 Beringer Reserve would have been my choice. It wasn't the most intellectually engaging--that would be the Thackrey Orion--but for pure pleasure and comfort, your wine easily won my vote. Geo's would have been my last choice. :)
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
no avatar
User

Jon Peterson

Rank

The Court Winer

Posts

2981

Joined

Sat Apr 08, 2006 5:53 pm

Location

The Blue Crab State

Re: Where are all the Cal. Cab. Lovers?

by Jon Peterson » Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:31 am

Bill Spohn wrote:I wouldn't even think about drinking a good California Cabernet at that young age.


I need to be more patient, I guess, Bill. :)
no avatar
User

Ryan M

Rank

Wine Gazer

Posts

1720

Joined

Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:01 pm

Location

Atchison, KS

Re: Where are all the Cal. Cab. Lovers?

by Ryan M » Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:09 am

I love Alexander Valley Cabs and Napa Cabs from old school producers, but I don't often actually buy Cali Cabs. In practice, about the only Cali Cabs I buy are Louis Martini, and they age very nicely.

Does anybody have experience with Vincent Arroyo Cabs?
"The sun, with all those planets revolving about it and dependent on it, can still ripen a bunch of grapes as if it had nothing else to do"
Galileo Galilei

(avatar: me next to the WIYN 3.5 meter telescope at Kitt Peak National Observatory)
no avatar
User

Mark Lipton

Rank

Oenochemist

Posts

4285

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:18 pm

Location

Indiana

Re: Where are all the Cal. Cab. Lovers?

by Mark Lipton » Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:52 pm

Bill Spohn wrote:
Jon Peterson wrote: I opened a 2005 Mt. Veeder Winery Cab for dinner Sunday night and it was absolutely wonderful. For me, having wines like this would not be possible without a wine cellar and it is one of the main reason to have a cellar.


Not poking fun at you, Jon, but I actually laughed when I saw that!

Good example of how tastes vary. I wouldn't even think about drinking a good California Cabernet at that young age. I am just starting in on my early 90s cabs.


No surprise, I suppose, Bill, but I am in the same boat as you.

Mark Lipton

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot], SemrushBot and 1 guest

Powered by phpBB ® | phpBB3 Style by KomiDesign