The place for all things wine, focused on serious wine discussions.
no avatar
User

Redwinger

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

3964

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:36 pm

Location

Way Down South In Indiana, USA

Re: How do you feel about Petite Sirah?

by Redwinger » Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:23 pm

My cellar has exactly one PS in it: A 1995 Ridge York Creek. No idea why I bought it and no intention of drinking it anytime soon.
Smile, it gives your face something to do!
no avatar
User

Mark S

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

935

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:28 pm

Location

CNY

Re: How do you feel about Petite Sirah?

by Mark S » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:28 pm

I like PS, in small doses (say, once every 2-3 years or so). Carlisle makes a nice one. Foppiano had an old-vine one years ago that is not made anymore (vineyard got ripped up for house development in the 90's) that was excellent. Had a good one from Lava Cap before. I'm sitting on a 1999 Lorca that ought to be interesting. Petite sirah makes tough rough-n'tumble wines, a little like baga does in Portugal or tannat in southern France. Yeah, they last, but with age the tannins subside and it smooths out a bit. Good with rustic stick-to-the-ribs cooking.
User avatar
User

Peter May

Rank

Pinotage Advocate

Posts

2174

Joined

Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:24 pm

Location

Snorbens, England

Re: How do you feel about Petite Sirah?

by Peter May » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:22 am

I like PS but don't often have it, its no so common here. Recently I have had EOS and McManis Family Vineyards (California), also some PS from Fairview in South Africa, they were the first to grow and make PS in SAf. Their PS - perhaps because they're young vines - is lighter and less 'chewy' than the CA I've had.

Redwinger - I had that 1995 Ridge two years ago -- I think you'll find it's ready now.
no avatar
User

TomHill

Rank

Here From the Very Start

Posts

3344

Joined

Wed Mar 29, 2006 1:01 pm

Thoughts??? Of Course....

by TomHill » Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:04 pm

Jenise wrote:Tom, besides the Thackrey mentioned, I have a 96 Teldeschi, 03 M2, 00 Behrens and Hitchcock single vineyard I can't remember the name of--Bandini?--and some more recent Scholium Projects called something-of-Babylon, or some such. You know their heady names.

Any thoughts on those? And whatever happened to Teldeschi, anyway? Not a winery name I see around any more.


Jenise,
The Teldeschi should be pretty good. I think he (Ray or Mike) is still in business...just maybe not in much distribution.
Don't know the M2.
The B&H wines I didn't much care for...some pretty over the top. And many closed w/ plastic corks...which failed.
Bandini...that name doesn't trigger anything in my mind.
ScholiumProject: Now we're talking here. AbeSchoener gets is grapes from Tenbrink vnyd (where he makes his wine) there in the
SuisunVlly of SolanoCnty. MattRorick/ForlornHope also makes PS from those same grapes. I haven't followed Abe's PS very
closely (or even...from the very start), but the one I had was a big bruiser that I thought would age very well. Matt's is one of
the best in Calif...from an area that gets no respect.
Tom
User avatar
User

Bob Parsons Alberta

Rank

aka Doris

Posts

9627

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:09 pm

Re: How do you feel about Petite Sirah?

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:08 pm

I always enjoyed the McManis wines, well made not over the top. Will buy one Wed!
no avatar
User

Brian K Miller

Rank

Passionate Arboisphile

Posts

7147

Joined

Fri Aug 25, 2006 2:05 am

Location

Northern California

Re: How do you feel about Petite Sirah?

by Brian K Miller » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:24 pm

I've had a few Petit Sirahs that I have enjoyed, but many do seem over-ripe and flabby and massive. Good ones to me have an earthy, herbaceous character that belies the reputation/standard expression of the grape.

Hopper Creek, a small, under the radar winery that shares the driveway with Bell Cellars south of Yountville, made a very nice one from Chiles Valley fruit. Relative lean, some herbal notes, but still resolutely "purple" in character. The current release is the 2007, so they don't push amazingly too young wines out the door like some do. Quixote (the former owner of Stags Leap Winery) has one that I've enjoyed in some years, but the 2008 was very oaky! :( Clarksburg Wine Company on the river south fo Sacramento made a preety nice, achingly young one with some bright character and tautness.
...(Humans) are unique in our capacity to construct realities at utter odds with reality. Dogs dream and dolphins imagine, but only humans are deluded. –Jacob Bacharach
User avatar
User

Bill Spohn

Rank

He put the 'bar' in 'barrister'

Posts

5078

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:31 pm

Location

Vancouver BC

Re: How do you feel about Petite Sirah?

by Bill Spohn » Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:24 pm

Petite Sirah is sort of like Malbec. A lot of simple fruit in the face wines of not much interest, dead in a few years, and the minority of interesting ageworthy wines. The problem is knowing which is which.

I agree about Foppiano being decent and reliable. And one of my fave PS was a 1975 Freemark York Creek, drunk at the age of 30 (the wine, not me).
no avatar
User

Robert Helms

Rank

Wine geek

Posts

55

Joined

Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:14 pm

Re: How do you feel about Petite Sirah?

by Robert Helms » Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:01 am

Like most of the other posters, I find young PS very tough. Fruity, jammy and very, very tannic. But the best (Ridge and Stag's Leap, among others) do eventually turn into something very special once the fruit and tannins have abated. The problem is that the maturation period is 15+ years. We recently opened a case of Stag's Leap 1993 and it had developed into a very pleasant wine indeed: balanced, quite complex and nicely long. No way that one would have guessed 18+ years old, more like 8.

Once I figured out that PS took that long to mature, I stopped buying any. I am quite happy cellaring wine for a long time but I prefer having a better idea how long long is.
User avatar
User

Bill Spohn

Rank

He put the 'bar' in 'barrister'

Posts

5078

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:31 pm

Location

Vancouver BC

Re: How do you feel about Petite Sirah?

by Bill Spohn » Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:14 am

I am sitting here with some 1997 Turley PS, wondering if and when they will be ready to open.....anyone tried any lately?
no avatar
User

Carl Eppig

Rank

Our Maine man

Posts

4043

Joined

Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:38 pm

Location

Middleton, NH, USA

Re: How do you feel about Petite Sirah?

by Carl Eppig » Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:04 pm

Based strictly on that wines reputation, I would wail four years.
no avatar
User

Redwinger

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

3964

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:36 pm

Location

Way Down South In Indiana, USA

Re: How do you feel about Petite Sirah?

by Redwinger » Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:33 pm

Carl Eppig wrote:I would wail four years.

Me too, but I'm a big cry baby.
Smile, it gives your face something to do!
no avatar
User

Eli R

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

761

Joined

Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:22 pm

Location

Rehovot, Israel

Re: How do you feel about Petite Sirah?

by Eli R » Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:26 pm

Hi,


Unlike most of you here, I love the local Petite Syrah here in Israel and have the following wines in my fridge:

Dalton Petite Syrah: A very light wine, to be consumed young, food loving wine.
First vintage in 2009, goes for about 20$ in the US:

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=38540&p=322443&hilit=+Petite+Syrah+Dalton#p322443

Viktin Petite Syrah: on the other end of the scale. Deep dark. When young, it is recommended to open at least 6 hours in advance.
This winery took on producing wines from non-Bordeaux grapes more than 10 years ago.

Rogov's TN sample:

*Vitkin,Petite Syrah, 2007: Made from old vine grapes (30-40 years old), a super-dark garnet wine with fine balance between spicy wood, acidity and fruits. Opens with the traditional rich huckleberry, boysenberry and blackberry notes that we have come to associate with the better wines of this variety, those matched nicely by notes of minerals, dark chocolate. Once firm and somewhat chunky tannins now settling in nicely to produce a powerful but round and elegant wine. Drink now–2012, perhaps longer. NIS 115. Score 90.

Sea Horse, Munk: another "heavy" sample:

Rogov's TN:

Sea Horse, Munch, 2006: Petite Sirah at its best. Dark, almost impenetrably inky garnet in color, full-bodied, concentrated and intense, showing generous wood and mouth-coating tannins, those in fine balance with red plum, blueberry and currant fruits. Give this one time and it will prove supple, ripe and rich. Approachable now but best from mid-2009-2012. Score 92

Eli
User avatar
User

Paul B.

Rank

Hybrid Guru

Posts

2024

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:38 am

Location

Ontario, Canada

Re: How do you feel about Petite Sirah?

by Paul B. » Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:24 pm

I really enjoy this variety - when I can find it.

It tends to produce really well structured, tight wines.
Hybrid Wines Online:
http://hybridwines.blogspot.ca
no avatar
User

John Treder

Rank

Zinaholic

Posts

1630

Joined

Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:03 pm

Location

Santa Rosa, CA

Re: How do you feel about Petite Sirah?

by John Treder » Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:24 am

"Tight" indeed, Paul! There seem to be two knocks on PS: One, that it's tight and tannic and hard and takes forever. That's the kind I like. And the other, that it's lush and overripe and unintegrated. Some places here in Sonoma County make that. I don't buy it. :mrgreen:
John in the wine county
no avatar
User

Jenise

Rank

FLDG Dishwasher

Posts

26692

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:45 pm

Location

The Pacific Northest Westest

Re: Thoughts??? Of Course....

by Jenise » Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:34 pm

TomHill wrote:
Jenise wrote:Tom, besides the Thackrey mentioned, I have a 96 Teldeschi, 03 M2, 00 Behrens and Hitchcock single vineyard I can't remember the name of--Bandini?--and some more recent Scholium Projects called something-of-Babylon, or some such. You know their heady names.

Any thoughts on those? And whatever happened to Teldeschi, anyway? Not a winery name I see around any more.


Jenise,
The Teldeschi should be pretty good. I think he (Ray or Mike) is still in business...just maybe not in much distribution.
Don't know the M2.
The B&H wines I didn't much care for...some pretty over the top. And many closed w/ plastic corks...which failed.
Bandini...that name doesn't trigger anything in my mind.
ScholiumProject: Now we're talking here. AbeSchoener gets is grapes from Tenbrink vnyd (where he makes his wine) there in the
SuisunVlly of SolanoCnty. MattRorick/ForlornHope also makes PS from those same grapes. I haven't followed Abe's PS very
closely (or even...from the very start), but the one I had was a big bruiser that I thought would age very well. Matt's is one of
the best in Calif...from an area that gets no respect.
Tom


Tom, I took the Teldeschi to Bill Spohn's Friday lunch last week. I had been curious if it would pass the test of showing secondary development vs. just "lasting", to quote David Bueker I think it was, and indeed it did though it's years away from shedding all it's primary fruit. Initial guesses were centered on it being a Cabernet Sauv from the 90's.

M2 is a winery owned by two Sacramento guys. They went commercial with the 2004 vintage, I believe, and have since built a wine tasting room somewhere in the Sac-Lodi region; wines are big and more elegant than you expect from Lodi, though they source from all over. My PS came from the Santa Cruz mountains, I believe.

Re the B & H, I believe the vineyard is 'Barcini'--though I wasn't far off with 'Bandini'. :)
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
no avatar
User

Jenise

Rank

FLDG Dishwasher

Posts

26692

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:45 pm

Location

The Pacific Northest Westest

Re: How do you feel about Petite Sirah?

by Jenise » Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:36 pm

Robert Helms wrote:Once I figured out that PS took that long to mature, I stopped buying any. I am quite happy cellaring wine for a long time but I prefer having a better idea how long long is.


Well put; my problem precisely.
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
no avatar
User

John Treder

Rank

Zinaholic

Posts

1630

Joined

Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:03 pm

Location

Santa Rosa, CA

Re: How do you feel about Petite Sirah?

by John Treder » Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:34 am

People brag about how long it takes Bordeaux and Barolo to grow up; why are they so picky about PS? Merely because it isn't famous?
Heck, I'm 73 and I have no idea what I want to be when I grow up!
John in the wine county
no avatar
User

TomHill

Rank

Here From the Very Start

Posts

3344

Joined

Wed Mar 29, 2006 1:01 pm

Uhhhh....

by TomHill » Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:53 am

John Treder wrote:People brag about how long it takes Bordeaux and Barolo to grow up; why are they so picky about PS? Merely because it isn't famous?

Yup......exactly it...it's not famous and doesn't sell for big $$$'s.
Actually...I think part of it is that PS is so danged unpredictable in how it evolves....whereas
the aging trajectories of Barolo/Bdx is a bit more predictable.

Heck, I'm 73 and I have no idea what I want to be when I grow up!


Just follow my lead, John......just don't grow up...bad things happen when you go there!!! :-)
Tom
no avatar
User

Jon Leifer

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

474

Joined

Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:34 pm

Re: How do you feel about Petite Sirah?

by Jon Leifer » Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:57 pm

I just follow the motto of my old track club.."you can only be young once...but you can be immature all your life"..works for me at age 74
Jon
no avatar
User

David Lole

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

1556

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:49 am

Location

Canberra, Australia

Re: How do you feel about Petite Sirah?

by David Lole » Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:26 pm

Is the following information correct?

"Petite Sirah is a cross between 2 other red grapes : Syrah (Shiraz?) and Peloursin.

Petite Sirah is also called Durif.

Petite Sirah is mainly grow in California and in Australia. Originally from France, the grape is not used there any more.

Petite Sirah gives dark wine with flavors of black pepper.

Syrah - notice the Y instead of the I - is a popular and traditional red grape from the Rhone Valley in France. This red grape is called Shiraz in Australia, South Africa and sometimes in the US.

Syrah gives full body and powerful wine, able to mature and age for a long time with flavors of chocolate and black berry.

Peloursin is originally a red grape from the Rhone Valley but can't not be found there any more. It still grows in a few vineyards in California and Australia."
Cheers,

David
no avatar
User

TomHill

Rank

Here From the Very Start

Posts

3344

Joined

Wed Mar 29, 2006 1:01 pm

Pretty Much Correct...

by TomHill » Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:55 pm

David Lole wrote:Is the following information correct?

[b][i]"Petite Sirah is a cross between 2 other red grapes : Syrah (Shiraz?) and Peloursin.

Petite Sirah is also called Durif.

Most of the PS vnyds in Calif are, in fact, Durif. Some are, instead, Peloursin.


Petite Sirah gives dark wine with flavors of black pepper.

A bit of a generalization...but often true. I don't always get the black pepper notes.


Syrah gives full body and powerful wine, able to mature and age for a long time with flavors of chocolate and black berry.

Again...a bit of a generalization. Some are aged to senility in large oak ovals, then bttld. Sometimes get chocolate and blackberry...but not always.
Tom
User avatar
User

Dave Erickson

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

832

Joined

Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:31 pm

Location

Asheville, NC

Re: How do you feel about Petite Sirah?

by Dave Erickson » Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:01 pm

Burger wine.

Although I recall a Fife Petite Sirah that showed some finesse--like Bruce Banner in the moment before he becomes The Hulk.
no avatar
User

Brian Gilp

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

1457

Joined

Tue May 23, 2006 6:50 pm

Re: How do you feel about Petite Sirah?

by Brian Gilp » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:05 pm

Opened a 2011 le P'tit Paysan tonight. Not what one expects of a young Petit Syrah. Tannins are not excessive. Wine is not jammy. Instead its almost sleek. Has some noticeable acid, med+ frame, pure raspberry flavor but the nose is more complex. Hoping for some more complexity with age but very nice as is today. Only drawback is that the finish is a little short and a touch bitter. Listed alc is 13.7%. Price is around $20. Great QPR.

After about three hours, the tannins do become more front and center.
User avatar
User

James Dietz

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

1243

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:45 pm

Location

Orange County, California

Re: How do you feel about Petite Sirah?

by James Dietz » Sat Apr 20, 2013 2:53 am

Brian Gilp wrote:
Jenise wrote:I've not even heard of these producers before, Le P'tit Paysan and Vincent Arroyo. Both California, I take it?

Ian Brand's wines from purchased grapes mostly from Monterey County. Generally good QPRs.
http://www.leptitpaysan.com/wines.html


I haven't tried Ian's PS, but I have been impressed with other wines he is making. His Albariño is delicious; in fact, I'm smitten with all his white wines.

I'm surprised, Jenise, that you haven't heard of Vincent Arroyo. Good stuff, well priced.

The 1999 (?) Ridge Dynamite Hill PS is one of my most memorable wines ever.
Cheers, Jim
PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 7 guests

Powered by phpBB ® | phpBB3 Style by KomiDesign
cron